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Old 9th December 2013, 23:00   #16
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Default re: Do car platforms really matter? PQ35 vs MQB?

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
The pink area pointed out by you has got nothing to do with the lower Euro Ncap rating in the tests.
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Please read my explanation again since it was not meant to be a PQ35 vs MQB explanation. It is merely an answer to my friends question "How does the *Platform* (not floorpan) relate to safety (to be considered validly relevant to the end user)?"

Non the less your point of view is appreciated.
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Old 10th December 2013, 14:54   #17
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Default re: Do car platforms really matter? PQ35 vs MQB?

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Platform has nothing to do with the consumer / end-user. It is a means of streamlining engineering, production and costs for the manufacturer. Platform brings standardization and reduction in non-standard parts in stock, thereby reducing logistics and inventory cost. On the production side, platform represents a limited range of tooling & settings - leading to minimum effort in model changes on production line (even the automated / robotic ones). Think how much savings if the line is reconfigured on a daily basis to cater to a mix of actual off-take of models.

All such keywords are fodder for marketing woo-woo, as the general public laps it up - without ever wondering how that, at all, benefits them.
I do not completely agree with your statements..While a platform helps all of the above, what it does affect significantly are the cars characteristics..Take the example of the Safari and the Storme...While the Safari is based on the older platform, the new Storme is based on the new Aria platform..which is a hydroformed chassis thereby differentiating it hugely in terms of ride, handling, weight from the Safari...Thus, a change in car platform does significantly affect the car in technical terms, apart from the modularity discussed above...


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Last edited by Rehaan : 10th December 2013 at 15:06. Reason: Please take a look at the mod note that has been added to the end of your post.
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Old 10th December 2013, 15:16   #18
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Default re: Do car platforms really matter? PQ35 vs MQB?

I think what DerAlte might be trying to say is that "Platform" is technically not the aspect you should be comparing, as platforms are a 'means of streamlining engineering, production and costs for the manufacturer'.

Most others here are taking it for granted that "newer platforms" are more technologically advanced and most importantly, safer -- simply because they are newer.

The above is not necessarily a wrong assumption in my opinion, however, technically the 'platform' is a family of pieces that work with each other. So from a technical viewpoint, you can't exactly say 'XYZ platform is safer'. What you need to be comparing is the body shell / monocoque design, and other such components directly linked to safety.

cya
R

PS - I think these days the word 'platform' is incorrectly used like 'chassis' at times.

Last edited by Rehaan : 10th December 2013 at 15:20.
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Old 10th December 2013, 15:37   #19
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Default re: Do car platforms really matter? PQ35 vs MQB?

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Originally Posted by Brishti View Post
... The following diagram shows the pink area as to what I am talking about ... I would summarize the answer to you question as simply that platforms weights are being reduced by using more and more higher strength metal in the platform. ...
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Originally Posted by Pratik Chavan View Post
I do not completely agree with your statements..While a platform helps all of the above, what it does affect significantly are the cars characteristics. ...
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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
I think what DerAlte might be trying to say is that "Platform" is technically not the aspect you should be comparing, as platforms are a 'means of streamlining engineering, production and costs for the manufacturer'.

Most others here are taking it for granted that "newer platforms" are more technologically advanced and most importantly, safer -- simply because they are newer. ...
Correct. The safety and other related aspects relate to the car's engineering, not the production engineering related to it. "Platform" is completely a production engineering issue, not vehicle engineering.

Think of it this way: if a car is / was designed in 2013 but not as a "platform", would it actually not be safer? One need not make a "platform", if, for example, the car is a sedan and there are no derived hatch-back / van / SUV models derived from it to use the same chassis and common parts. Plenty of cars are designed like that, and are not produced in the "platform" paradigm. The engineering of the vehicle (before going to production) would make it safer by using advances in materials, techniques and (what can only be called) 'tricks' is exactly the same whether one makes a "platform" or not.
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Old 10th December 2013, 17:30   #20
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Default re: Do car platforms really matter? PQ35 vs MQB?

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Correct. The safety and other related aspects relate to the car's engineering, not the production engineering related to it. "Platform" is completely a production engineering issue, not vehicle engineering.
.
You are correct but when you put a name next to the platform such as PQ35 or MQB that named platform does contain the specific fixed parts that go into making the floorpan among other things. You say platform in its self is not an determinant of safety and I agree but when the company says MQB platform will use 50% more high strength steel they mean this for MQB as a stranded across the manufacturer.

If platforms were of no importance other than cost cutting and streaming the process then volvo would not have required a new platform for integration of its latest safety technology:

"Volvo has revealed first details of the platform that will underpin its next-generation mid-sized and large cars and enable the integration of its latest safety technology."


http://fleetworld.co.uk/news/2013/Ju...eas/0434009909
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Old 10th December 2013, 17:44   #21
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Default re: Do car platforms really matter? PQ35 vs MQB?

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... they mean this for MQB as a stranded across the manufacturer. ...
The context of MQB is relevant ONLY in the VAG (Volkswagen AG) world - Volkswagen, Skoda, Seat. It is not relevant in the context of other manufacturers e.g. FIAT, Chrysler or Peugeot. Nor is it an international standard like IEEE 802.11 or H.264!

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... If platforms were of no importance other than cost cutting and streaming the process then volvo would not have required a new platform for integration of its latest safety technology ...
It is very obvious that was nothing but empty phrases with the use of the buzzword "Platform".

"Platform" is a word in the future for Volvo, which is a prime example of not using one. Volvo, beyond the NCAP rating for it's vehicles, is a strong believer of Active Safety systems (prevention more than mere protection) - these are electronic systems that come as a standard in their current line-up.

If and when they have a "platform", no one will mention it as everyone (incl. Volvo marketing) knows they have already talked about it and it would be nothing new to talk about. If their new cars will be "safer", they will be safer anyhow - platform or no platform!

Last edited by DerAlte : 10th December 2013 at 17:46.
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Old 10th December 2013, 18:38   #22
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Default re: Do car platforms really matter? PQ35 vs MQB?

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
The context of MQB is relevant ONLY in the VAG (Volkswagen AG) world - Volkswagen, Skoda, Seat. It is not relevant in the context of other manufacturers e.g. FIAT, Chrysler or Peugeot. Nor is it an international standard like IEEE 802.11 or H.264!
That is why I said manufacturer and not manufacturers. VAG will use MQB exactly with the per-defined make up irrespective of it being in India or abroad.

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It is very obvious that was nothing but empty phrases with the use of the buzzword "Platform". \!
Volvo is saying otherwise according to them the new platform is crucial for new safety tech.

"SPA also makes it possible for Volvo to introduce its latest safety ideas. Four new safety technologies will be available on the next XC90 as part of Volvo's aim to ensure that no-one can be killed or seriously injured in one of its cars after 2020."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-stan...-better-safety

This can be publicity since I don't see how new platform is relevant for their new technology. I am however quite sure that the contents of a platform "Higher grade metals, etc" do impact the passive safety for the car specially side impact.
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Old 11th December 2013, 17:14   #23
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Default Re: Do car platforms really matter? PQ35 vs MQB?

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... Volvo is saying otherwise according to them the new platform is crucial for new safety tech.

"SPA also makes it possible for Volvo to introduce its latest safety ideas. Four new safety technologies will be available on the next XC90 as part of Volvo's aim to ensure that no-one can be killed or seriously injured in one of its cars after 2020."...
I am however quite sure that the contents of a platform "Higher grade metals, etc" do impact the passive safety for the car specially side impact.
1. It is not Volvo saying that - it is a journalist's interpretation of marketing dissemination

2. All the 4 systems mentioned there either exist in the current generation Volvo cars, or are in advanced proto stage (animal collision protection). Adaptive / preemptive braking, for crash prevention and maintaining distance, is already present in the XC60 sold in India (I had reviewed it). The sensors are mounted between windshield and IRVM, as well as front grill. These are electronic monitoring / intervention systems that have *nothing* to do with chassis strength nor "platform".

3. You seem to be extrapolating "to introduce its latest safety ideas". I don't think Volvo meant it that way. Exactly the way I had explained "platform" earlier, SPA is explained as "It allows petrol, diesel, hybrid and all-electric powertrains to be mounted identically in a fixed location, while engineers have total flexibility in the shape and size of the rest of the car". Volvo would have said these safety features would be present in all the new cars from model year 2015, and these cars will be based on SPA platform. This is not 2+2=4 as the journalist (or maybe the marketing person) makes it out to be!
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Old 12th December 2013, 23:41   #24
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Default Re: Do car platforms really matter? PQ35 vs MQB?

What does this Einstein think of himself? If you look and dissect every car in this manner you will never enjoy any car. Lets say you chose skoda and you didn't have any accidents for 20 years, then you will be unhappy that you drove a car all these years that didn't give you the best ride and in case you chose VW, you'll be unhappy that you didn't get the latest platform.
If I were in your position, I would choose the one which gives me the best ride (within the given parameters) and ignore everything else. Even if I die in a an accident due to lack a small safety protection, well I had a hell of a ride in a car I like; . (these two cars are pretty much the same anyways). Take it easy dude.

Last edited by pamiboy : 12th December 2013 at 23:45.
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