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Old 14th September 2005, 22:15   #31
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Ok. So where are we headed (hedded.)?
Are the K&n filters good for you if installed properly or not?

BTW Iceman do you have hedders in your car?

Last edited by Slash : 14th September 2005 at 22:23.
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Old 15th September 2005, 09:04   #32
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Use a larger volume air box, the biggest you can fit in your engine bay and thermally isolate it from engine heat, divert the air intake of your air box to the front of your engine grille where it can draw nice cool oxygen rich air. Stay off K&N.
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Old 15th September 2005, 09:10   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurkha
Use a larger volume air box, the biggest you can fit in your engine bay and thermally isolate it from engine heat, divert the air intake of your air box to the front of your engine grille where it can draw nice cool oxygen rich air. Stay off K&N.

Hmmm, I've been trying to improve the Air Intake in the Smart and bought a K&N kit that included a filter and an air-scoop to fit onto the top of the air intake (which is on the side of the vehicle, looking very much like another gas tank opening on the left side).

I think I'll try and move the air intake upfront, but the inlet tube would be rather long from the front of the vehicle to the back (where the engine is mounted) - wont that negate the effect of the fresh-cool-oxygen-from-the-front?
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Old 15th September 2005, 09:21   #34
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Steeroid,

Just wrap some aluminum foil on the pipe to negate the effect of engine heat.
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Old 16th September 2005, 13:30   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurkha
Use a larger volume air box, the biggest you can fit in your engine bay and thermally isolate it from engine heat, divert the air intake of your air box to the front of your engine grille where it can draw nice cool oxygen rich air. Stay off K&N.
I totally agree. Due to my cash-strapped nature, I always tend to look at things (in this case performance-upgrades) with a cost-to-improvement ratio in mind. (I am sure many of you guys also do the same). I won't get into technicalities, but K&N surely isn't bang for the buck. All it does is sit there and look cool when you open your hood to show off the car to your mates. And sound "cool" when you rev the car. Its merely a case of MHP- mental horspower, that is, a "perceived" HP increase that most people get out K&Ns....IMHO, not worth the money....

As for manufacturers, fitting something like a K&N goes against all the principles of value engineering....A 3k increase may sound small to the aftermarket, but to the manufacturer, its a straight loss of 3k x No. of Cars built per year....without any significant value addition that can be perceived by the customer...

Ananth
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Old 16th September 2005, 17:49   #36
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lets c this in a different perspective.forget f.e. and power increase.let me give u some other instances.i installed a universal cone filter on my mpfi zen.as all zen owners wud know that the engine is pretty sensitive to quality of fuel and starts knocking if the fuel quality is bad.plus if u accelerate hard,after a certain rpm it starts knocking.when i installed a k&n ,the knocking disappeared.it has been 1 yr since i installed the filter and havent had any problems with it.also the guy who installed it completely removed the stock air filter box and connected the k&n to the intake pipe just after the box.so now the filter sits next to the front bumper pointed away from the engine.one more thing,when i had gone to get a k&n ,the guy removed the stock filter box,and what i saw was unimaginable,there was a layer of dirt settled on the inside of the intake pipe going into the engine.i actually wiped off the dirt with my finger.though the guy was not suprised.he Told me that after installing a k&n ,i would c the differnce clearly.well here i am,1 yr after the k&n installation,got my car serviced and got the k&n reoiled.well what do u know,there is no dirt on the inside of the intake pipe.so even if it doesnt give u an increase in f.e. or hp,rest assured that atleast ur car is breathing clean air.plus there is an increase in sound,call it placebo or whatever.....I LIKE IT.

Last edited by hellspawn : 16th September 2005 at 17:51.
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Old 5th October 2005, 21:09   #37
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I'm all for K&N.

However, what worries me is that water can enter through the filter.
It rains pretty much in Bangalore and I don't want to get into any complications with my Baleno. Can rainwater get into the filter and mess things for someone who's driving around in rainy weather all the time?

Someone please answer my query...It's the only thing that holding me back from redlining...all the time.
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Old 5th October 2005, 22:02   #38
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This is why I got the OEM replacement filter.. it's pretty good. At last weeks t-bhp meetup I was cruising in my carb zen (with K&N) at the Krishnagiri stretch at 120-145kmph (for a carb zen this speed is good). I didn't push the car to much. But I feel it can still go up. Without the K&N it was little difficult to maintain 120kmph. What I have noticed that in city traffic condition (below 35kmph) the difference is not that visible. After 35kmph, you will get a boost. If you go for the universal filter, you have to protect it during rainy season.. but because of Bangalore's cool climate it (the universal filter) will be really effective too.
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Old 5th October 2005, 22:07   #39
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What someone needs to do, instead of discussing seat-of-the-pants evaluations, is to get the cars on the dyno with and without a K&N. Then the devil will be out.

Maybe our BHPians who reside in the US can help...you have rolling road dynos all over the place, there guys...
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Old 5th October 2005, 22:32   #40
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If you look at the link I posted, it debunks the HP myth quite well.
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Old 5th October 2005, 22:56   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurkha
If you look at the link I posted, it debunks the HP myth quite well.
Yeah I did. But people only need the flimsiest of reasons to reject a debunking like this; Like "oh crap its done on a huge diesel engine and not at all relevant"; and "it doesnt matter anyway cause we dont get any of those other filters here, so the k&n is the best of the rest"

We really need to get a dyno test done independently on the efficiency of the filter. A CFM raise of 30% doesnt at all mean a HP raise of 30%, does it?

In fact, if its so good, why dont K&N themselves do a test? If they have the wherewithal to develop individual products for a particular model, surely dyno testing must be a part of this development? All they have to do is leverage that information in their advertising. Why don't they? Cause half the people buying the filters would be turned away, thats why.

This is an open question I ask to all the people selling K&N in India: Why doesnt K&N publish explicit proof of the supposed power increase on the use of their product?

Last edited by ananthkamath : 5th October 2005 at 23:02.
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Old 29th October 2005, 00:35   #42
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Go to an Authorised K&N dealer and check their demo kit that shows the difference between an OE filter and the K&N filter. Period.
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Old 29th October 2005, 01:37   #43
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Hi,

I got my K&N replacement filter few weeks back on my MPFI Esteem.

i have to say the car feels definitely more responsive and is very very quick.

Reaching 100kmph is a breeze... takes only few seconds... Initial acceleration has obviously increased and so has the top end speed.

Also in city driving conditions I can easily drive at 1000 rpm at 30kmph on 4th gear with no knocking. (I also use xtra premium petrol which helps reduce knocking).

So with better airflow, acceleration increased, so has the FE, as you shift to a higher gear much quicker and frequent shifting is minimal.

For figures sake my FE has increased at least by 1 or 2kmpl (minimum). Will post the actual figures soon.

So rest your horses and please go get a K&N.

Fact: I didn't tell my dad about this until after the i got the filter. After i got the filter i told my dad and asked him to drive the car.

Upon driving, he asked me if i just changed the filter or did i even get some work on the engine as it was very responsive. :-)

Here's what you all can do if you want to try the K&N and have doubts.

Get the filter fixed and go for a trial. Drive normally... Dont push the car.... drive normally and you can see the difference.

Try it... Let me know.
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Old 29th October 2005, 03:46   #44
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I was planning to get a K&N filter for my Acura Integra but now I've second thougthts about it Should I stick with the OEM filter then?
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Old 29th October 2005, 05:19   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath
Yeah I did. But people only need the flimsiest of reasons to reject a debunking like this; Like "oh crap its done on a huge diesel engine and not at all relevant"; and "it doesnt matter anyway cause we dont get any of those other filters here, so the k&n is the best of the rest"

We really need to get a dyno test done independently on the efficiency of the filter. A CFM raise of 30% doesnt at all mean a HP raise of 30%, does it?

In fact, if its so good, why dont K&N themselves do a test? If they have the wherewithal to develop individual products for a particular model, surely dyno testing must be a part of this development? All they have to do is leverage that information in their advertising. Why don't they? Cause half the people buying the filters would be turned away, thats why.

This is an open question I ask to all the people selling K&N in India: Why doesnt K&N publish explicit proof of the supposed power increase on the use of their product?
Very good point, dyno tests have been done by motorcycle and car racing teams, lets say, they stuck to the version of the air filters that came with the race kit.

K&N is not used in F-I, Indy or Moto GP where ordinary paper element filter is used.
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