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Old 13th January 2014, 11:29   #1
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Default Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

Just when I thought the safari was behaving nicely after the steering box overhaul, got another nasty surprise.
We were driving back from Punjab, and had just entered Delhi,and cruising on the outer ring road.
I felt the brakes are a little funny, and started stopping on the side. Suddenly, the pedal completely goes to the floor!

On inspection, found the brake oil tank to be empty. Luckily, past experience means we always carry the fluids with us. Filled her up, but somehow it took a lot of time for boost to come in(air in lines I guess).

Initially, only after 2-3 pedal pumps I would get boost. After 10-15 minutes of driving, its near normal. Pics show leak from the vacuum storage(the device which allows brake force for few pedal pumps even when the engine is off).

Today morning I took a few pics
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Old 13th January 2014, 12:25   #2
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Default re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

Please show, In between booster & master cylinder snap. See if any paint has come off from booster bottom. It's tell tale for M/C failure.
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Old 13th January 2014, 12:36   #3
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Default re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

You want to see below the vacuum thingy?
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Old 13th January 2014, 13:06   #4
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Default re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

Thank God you could noticed this out of your experience of handling cars. Even a minor negligence and ignorance would have certainly led to a major mishap. I agree with you when you say that sometimes you do come across situations when it becomes evident to carry some of the necessary stuff to overcome these emergency situations on the road. The road you mentioned is quite busy with virtually all kind of dense traffic throughout the day and night.
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Old 13th January 2014, 15:22   #5
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Default re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

Problem fixed.
There is no cylinder leaking.
The wheel had sprayed brake oil onto the master cylinder.

As you may recall, I had given my car for steering box overhaul at Oberoi cars sector 2 noida.

When they fit the steering back on the vehicle, they had decreased(read as improved) the turning radius beyond the prescribed limit. Due to this, the nut at the point where the brake line meets the RHS front wheel was touching some arm/chasis part, and due to vibrations, the nut got loose.

Gave them an earful.
Went to sector 63 oberoi this time because I am told that workshop is much better than the sector 2 workshop.

No charge. But i did have to waste money on brake oil.
This kind of shoddy job could have resulted in a mishap on the highway.

I wonder when the Tata workshops will get their act together and not make a mess out of simple things!
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Old 13th January 2014, 15:57   #6
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Default re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

A mishap was avoided in this case. This type of A.S.S. experiences from current owners shake the confidence of prospective buyers like me.
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Old 13th January 2014, 16:04   #7
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Default re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Problem fixed.

When they fit the steering back on the vehicle, they had decreased(read as improved) the turning radius beyond the prescribed limit. Due to this, the nut at the point where the brake line meets the RHS front wheel was touching some arm/chasis part, and due to vibrations, the nut got loose.

This kind of shoddy job could have resulted in a mishap on the highway.

I wonder when the Tata workshops will get their act together and not make a mess out of simple things!
Hi TSK, Good that you realised the failure early and stopped. If only the Auto industry had the accountability like in the aircraft maintenance industry (with proper documentation and traceability!) and an accident investigation unit - several so called "drivers errors" will be traced to such stupidity of the A.S.S.!

Did you take pics of the nut before correcting this mistake?
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Old 13th January 2014, 16:10   #8
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Default re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

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Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
Hi TSK, Good that you realised the failure early and stopped. If only the Auto industry had the accountability like in the aircraft maintenance industry (with proper documentation and traceability!) and an accident investigation unit - several so called "drivers errors" will be traced to such stupidity of the A.S.S.!

Did you take pics of the nut before correcting this mistake?
Its not really visible. When viewed from above it looks like a simple nut. But even if its slightly loose, it sprays oil.
You are right about no accountability. When I noticed this we had entered Delhi and were at city speeds (40kmph).
I shudder to think what could have happened at 90kmph highway speeds!
I will be coming up with the detailed post in dealership section about my steering box experience as well as this brake job thingy.
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Old 13th January 2014, 16:19   #9
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Default re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

Thank god for not getting in to any mishap

When they allowed "over play" in steering you did not feel in lock to lock turns?
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Old 13th January 2014, 16:27   #10
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Default re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

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Thank god for not getting in to any mishap

When they allowed "over play" in steering you did not feel in lock to lock turns?
Not really. Slight overplay or "under" is not really detectible as near the end the steering does get a little "mushy" . I am also wondering, what sort of design Tata has. Is it so easy to do this at workshop that it will result in brake failure??
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Old 14th January 2014, 08:07   #11
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Default Re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

So advisory to all Safari guys : "Brush up your techniques to stop without brakes" ?

Change down as fast as possible, get in to first gear and kill engine. Apply handbrake as much as possible remembering that if you are turning the rear is liable to slide.
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Old 14th January 2014, 11:02   #12
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Default Re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

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So advisory to all Safari guys : "Brush up your techniques to stop without brakes" ?

Change down as fast as possible, get in to first gear and kill engine. Apply handbrake as much as possible remembering that if you are turning the rear is liable to slide.
Not much of a problem in remembering that. If if you are not doing an handbrake turn, the rear is liable to slide.
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Old 14th January 2014, 12:16   #13
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Default Re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

Good to know things solve in a simpler way. But the way it has happened is a scary thing. One small note:- More cutting angle will load the PS pump where oil seals will give away. Set the cutting angle adjusting nut to spec. Check with other car for measurement.
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Old 14th January 2014, 12:22   #14
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Default Re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

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Originally Posted by narendra.vw View Post
Good to know things solve in a simpler way. But the way it has happened is a scary thing. One small note:- More cutting angle will load the PS pump where oil seals will give away. Set the cutting angle adjusting nut to spec. Check with other car for measurement.
This is what they did. Took multiple TDs to to get it to exact spec. Hopefully, things should hold up fine now.
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Old 14th January 2014, 16:29   #15
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Default Re: Tata Safari Brake Failure. EDIT: Solved

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
This is what they did. Took multiple TDs to to get it to exact spec. Hopefully, things should hold up fine now.
TDs means? Get the wheel alignment done in particular toe in, toe out. Personally check cutting angle both ways with both wheels.(left & right). They should have equal gap with chassis & not touch any part. (Fingers can be used for gap checking.) Please check tie rod end life.
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