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Old 17th March 2015, 17:29   #136
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Quite honestly, im absolutely shocked at the level of absolute disregard a reputed multi national company can have for its customers!
To top it off, its a company which is now owned by an Indian company known for honesty, values & ethics.
Being a car guy himself, i really wish that Mr.Tata comes across this thread purely to empathize as a car guy with whats been going on with you. I know that i surely do & it saddens me.

I know that this post isnt exactly going to turn things around for you but hopefully, itll help lend some support & furthermore, hopefully even bump this thread to gain more awareness & perhaps, finally begin the process to help you & solve this.

All the best & rest assured that you have our full support as a passionately driven car community.

PS. This thread needs to be renamed & the "poor service" needs to be replaced with "shockingly gruesome service"

Last edited by Xehaust : 17th March 2015 at 17:31.
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Old 17th March 2015, 17:50   #137
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Shocked to hear about the attitude of JLR. And this after spending well over a crore on a car!
I would say sell the car off for whatever its worth and get yourself a car which offers you peace of mind. Dealing with this horribly unreliable car makes no sense and might be risky too in case a critical part fails while driving. The financial hit would certainly be huge but what use is a car of if it spends majority of the time in a workshop??!!
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Old 17th March 2015, 17:57   #138
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

15th December, 2014

I once again complained to the Operations Manager about Air-con malfunction. He visited my residence along with two technicians. They ran diagnostics on the vehicle. the Operations Manager assured me of a follow up as soon as he received a reply from JLR UK regarding the diagnostic report. I didn't hear back from him. I also demonstrated the squealing/noisy brakes to him.

22nd December, 2014

Videos of the malfunctions with the vehicle were emailed to the Operations Manager.

Name:  att2.PNG
Views: 1913
Size:  115.3 KB

January, 2015

Intermittent problems kept appearing with the climate control and the Infotainment system. All of these were again informed to the Operations Manager multiple times over the telephone, SMS's and Whatsapp messages containing video proofs of the same. NO action was taken.

I continued to use the vehicle with these electrical defects, purely because, at the end of the day, the Discovery was running and driving.

3rd February, 2015
The infotainment system was completely dead and the air-con was still functioning erratically. The vehicle was collected by the JLR workshop but they could not fix the problems or arrange for a loaner vehicle, to conduct an extended review. The vehicle was therefore returned to me on the same day, late at night with a partially working infotainment and air-con system. However the park distance control (PDC) switch had now stopped functioning – the Operations Manager was informed about this.

4th February, 2015
The Infotainment started working, but the audio and the climate control stopped functioning completely. The park distance control switch was also not working, and all of these problems were informed to the Operations Manager immediately. I continued to use the vehicle without the air-con, PDC and infotainment until the 8th of February, 2015

Imagine driving your vehicle without the ac or music. It is absolutely harrowing!

8th of February, 2015
A Park Brake Fault appeared on the instrument cluster. I abandoned my vehicle at my office and informed the Operations Manager immediately.

9th February, 2015
A driver from the JLR Workshop came to my office to take the vehicle to the workshop. He was unable to start the vehicle and he reported the matter to me. I checked the vehicle myself and saw that the AIRBAG warning light was illuminated on the instrument cluster.

Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service-airbag-light-92.jpg

Here is the chronology of events that occurred on the 9th of February, 2015. Gathered from the CCTV footage:
  • 14:57:20 – The driver carried out a pre-pick-up inspection on the car and document checks
  • 15:28:48 – He tried to start the vehicle; but the engine shut down immediately after starting and the airbag light came on the instrument console
  • 15:32:54 – He inspected the vehicle battery
  • 15:33:42 – He attempted to start the vehicle
  • 15:35:05 – He informed me that the car is not starting and the battery might be dead. I spoke to the Operations Manager and informed him of the same. He assured me he would talk to the driver
  • 15:41:20 – The driver was on the phone with the workshop
  • 15:45:15 – The driver was in the front drivers seat, leaning over to reach the fuse box
  • 15:45:38 – He noticed me at the office door and quickly exited the Discovery and moved away to hide behind a parked vehicle nearby. He returned to the discovery the moment I turn back to the office.
  • 15:47:37– He accessed the fuse box from the driver's side
  • 15:51:44 – He accessed the fuse box from the passenger's side
  • 15:54:45 – He tampered with the electrics and without my knowledge/permission, replaced the air-bag fuse
  • 15:58:13 – He reported to me saying that the vehicle is finally working and that solution was to just lock and unlock the vehicle a couple of times
  • 16:04:56 – He drove off with the car

It is evident, that the vehicle did not start due to the AIR-BAG error. The fuse was CHANGED on my office premises without my knowledge or permission. Furthermore I was deceived by the Operations Manager, saying the car started on its own after locking and unlocking the vehicle a couple of times.

10th February, 2015
I visited the workshop to check on the progress. the Operations Manager was not present at the workshop. The vehicle was shown to me by another service advisor. Even after I asked for a job-card, I wasn't provided one. I telephoned the Vice President (Jaguar Land Rover India) who said he was busy and would call me the next day.

Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service-workshop.jpg

Back in the Workshop!

Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service-workshop2.jpg



11th February, 2015
While the car was in the workshop for additional scrutiny I interacted with the Operations Manager and the Regional Technical Manager. There were 4 issues raised during this interaction:

(1) Pin for the PDC switch located on the air-con control panel was broken:
the Operations Manager identified this problem and he blamed the broken pin on me, by claiming that I had gotten work done on the vehicle outside the official workshop. I flatly denied this and reminded him that the PDC switch was working when the vehicle was picked up by the workshop on 3rd Feb and that I was the one who had informed him that it had stopped working on 4th Feb

Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service-panel.jpg

(2) A non-genuine part was found in the car:
During my conversation with the Operations Manager about the broken pin, I noticed that they had removed what seemed like a non-genuine blown fuse from the car. I was able to confirm this by comparing the part with genuine fuses. Not only was this not notified to me by the workshop, they claimed they were not aware as to how it made its way into my car.

Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service-fuse-pin.jpg

The blown fuse and the broken pin



(3) I was informed that the blown fuse was from the air-con unit and not the air-bag system. I received this confirmation repeatedly from the Operations Manager. However, I knew this was not the case because in a previous photograph we had taken of the car, we could see the non-genuine fuse in the air-bag slot.

Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service-attachment-4.jpg

Picture of the fuse box with the non-genuine fuse and blown fuse (inset)


This cover-up is relevant because the main reason the car has been in the workshop so many times is due to an air-bag error. This is the problem that could not be properly resolved in the past. It seemed to me that the Operations Manager was trying to deflect the problem to the air-con system so that JLR would not have to deal with the persistent air-bag defect.


(4) I was given a job card by the workshop only because I insisted for one. The problem with the blown fuse and the vehicle not starting had also been conveniently omitted on the card I received. It was added by hand on my copy of the job card by the Operations Manager, when I insisted.

Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service-attachment-5.jpg
No mention of blown-fuse or vehicle not starting on job card. Vehicle not starting added by hand by the Operations Manager on my insistence.

12th February, 2015
The Operations Manager confirmed via phone that the vehicle started (on 9-02-2015) by locking and unlocking the vehicle multiple times. Again, there was no mention of the Air-bag fuse. At 6:39pm; He called me and asked me for additional time to address the issues with the vehicle.

14th February, 2015
In my conversation with the Operations Manager, he admitted that the fuse should not have been in the car. He agreed that the fuse is non-genuine, but feigned ignorance on how a non-genuine fuse got into the vehicle in the first place. He added that the fuse is related to the air-conditioner and not the air-bag system.

16th February, 2015
I visited the workshop again to retrieve my dash-cam from the vehicle. I was given a fresh copy of the job card by another service advisor, and even this had no mention of the vehicle not starting, or the blown fuse.

18th February, 2015
I arranged a meeting at my office, which was attended by the Operations Manager, the Regional Manager (Service), National Service Head at Jaguar LandRover India and the Regional Technical Manager. Just before the start of the meeting, I confronted the driver, who confessed to being told by the Operations Manager to change the fuse and to keep it hidden from me. The attendees of the meeting denied that anything was changed on my vehicle, but after showing them the evidence, they had nothing to say. The National Service Head claimed they were on the 'back foot' and that this was a 'one-off' incident. They had brought the car to my office for the meeting, without informing me. They insisted that I take delivery of the vehicle and that it was in working order. At that time, there was no mention of any amount to be paid to be paid by me.However, I refused to accept the vehicle as it was clear the airbag fault was not fixed and non-genuine parts were being used.

23rd February, 2015
I was requested to meet the Vice President of Jaguar Land Rover - India at the JLR showroom. This meeting was also attended by the National Service Head and a couple of other JLR employees. I brought up the issue of the non-genuine fuse being surreptitiously installed and I asked why I was being kept in the dark about this, and possibly other such changes to my car. Instead of admitting to the mistake or apologizing, the Vice President of JLR reprimanded me for:

-Questioning their driver on the fuse

-Emailing my concerns to the Chairman and Ex-Chairman of Tata Sons previously

-Voicing my concerns on the internet.

He also arrogantly added that no one above him in the organization had any authority over him, and no matter where I escalated it, he would have the final say on the matter. He also added that all he had to do was to show how much money was spent on repairs for the vehicle. When I asked why the vehicle was still giving problems even after this, he had no answer.

When I continued to ask about the fuse replacement, his only response was that JLR did not need to inform me every time parts were changed on my vehicle. He said that the driver's job was to get the car to start working again - how he did it and what he changed was not my concern. I asked for this 'policy' of JLR to be confirmed in writing.

Soon after the meeting, I received a mail from the Regional Manager (Service) with pictures of a broken pin on the air-con panel connector, which he claimed was the result of my 'tampering'. There was also an invoice for Rs.75,939 for parts replaced and the threat that I would be charged Rs.1500 per day for parking after 27/02/2015 if I did not collect the vehicle. The email also asked me to only contact the Regional Manager (Service) and to not try and contact any other person. I would like to highlight that in the previous meeting when I was asked to take delivery of the vehicle, there was no mention of any payment. This invoice appears to have been sent to me after my meeting with the Vice President, when I refused to just accept how this problem was being dealt with.

I replied to the Regional Manager (Service), by listing the facts as they stand, and again refusing to take the car back or make any payment until I got a clear response from JLR. In this response, the Regional Manager (Service) finally admitted to the fuse being changed on the sly by the driver, which had been denied on multiple occasions previously However, he still did not address the issue of the part being non-genuine and he also glossed over the persisting air-bag problem.

Last edited by Mad Monkey : 17th March 2015 at 18:03.
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Old 17th March 2015, 18:14   #139
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

MM, I am sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations but maybe they sold a Lemon!

I know its absurd that a car of such high repute with impeccable quality standards is functioning like a Lemon. I am also questioning the QA folks at Indian dealership. Are they even qualified to do there job? no seriously. i always have doubts. the modern cars are so packed with electronics that only a serious technician could and more importantly a JLR trained person only would have any clue. most Indian dealers have sub-standard staff and don't really do justice to the precision vehicles they are dealing with especially if the vehile is a full import.

well there goes my plans of buying a new Discovery (no seriously i was eagerly looking to the 2016 edition!!)

cheers
Krish
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Old 17th March 2015, 18:51   #140
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

What use is your (Ratan Tata) personal integrity if you're surrounded by thieves and shameless idiots like the ones involved here? And I refuse to believe nobody in Tata/JLR mgmt. (India or UK) has come across this thread during its entire lifespan, given the scope of mishandling and mismanagement shown by everyone who has handled the unfortunate owner's car and how visible Team-BHP has become in the Indian motoring scene. Add to that the owner's personal efforts, not to mention monumental patience (kudos to you sir, I'd have probably gone ballistic by now if put through the same) and I'm shocked at the lack of response or will to fix this mess on JLR's part.

It's all fine & dandy to be respected and considered a man/company of values & integrity but if I were in their shoes, I'd personally apologize to the owner RIGHT NOW for all the nonsense he's been put through, and make good on fixing it. If they can't do that, I don't really see how they're any better than the much-maligned Euro brand (you know which one). Like I said, thieves and shameless idiots, every single one of them including the top boss, by association.

Last edited by bblost : 17th March 2015 at 19:54. Reason: No Political discussion.
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Old 18th March 2015, 11:03   #141
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

'Nightmare' would be an understatement. Infact, any superlatives implying horrible would still be an understatement.

Iv always more or less been in touch with your experience with this car thanks to meeting you at times but reading it all in a go through a thread paints a grimmer picture than any of your narrations whenever we met. I always thought eventually JLR & you will find a midway and reach a solution but man this really is something else isnt it ?

Their arrogance, dishonesty, attitude and approach towards this whole problem is baffling to say the least ! Id not want to repeat what the others already have above but in a nutshell , if this does not put off any sensible bloke from JLR for life i dont know what will ! Its suicidal to go in for these trash pieces at horrific prices.

I sympathize with you MM, i hope this matter is laid to rest YESTERDAY !!!
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Old 18th March 2015, 12:20   #142
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

After having paid over a crore for the vehicle, and still end up facing this? A non premium automobile maker like Maruti is a lot better in attending to consumer complaints, than a premium car maker like JLR. I personally feel,they should have taken the car back at the onset of the first (or 2nd or worst case 3rd)problem and replaced it for free.

I have faced some issues with my Vespa and I know that, they were willing to change the vehicle, if even a small issue would have cropped up within a month of the repairs.

Thankfully, it works flawlessly now.

We are with you MM.
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Old 18th March 2015, 12:57   #143
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Hello MM,
Reading the last 10 pages has left me drained, and I'm not even owner of this car. I can imagine your plight.
If this is the support given to a 1.5 Cr Land Rover, what hope does a Tata owner have?! Heck they should be thankful to Tata for servicing their cars. And here I am, who just yesterday recommended at Zest XTA AMT to a friend. Will tell him "NEVER EVER BUY A TATA"

MM,with the way consumer laws are there in India, I will not suggest you to go that way. My only suggestion will be to try & make fresh contact to Mr.Ratan Tata & Mr.Cyrus Mistry.

Tata Motors, I believe your sales are at an all time low & you're investing heavily in advertising your products. My advice - Invest 1/100th of that amount & solve MM's misery. No, he may never buy a Tata/JLR & he may never trust you with his money again, but at-least you can restore hope in the minds of thousands of readers of TBHP.
Hope will give Confidence & Confidence will bring Trust in your Brand. And trust is what you need to bring Sales.

And if you cant do that then God help you.

MM, one more piece of advice, as one Mr Johnnie Walker said - "Keep Walking"

Regards,
Varun
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Old 18th March 2015, 12:58   #144
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

MM, this thread is an eye-opener. How customers paying 1+ Cr for a vehicle get treated is appalling to say the least. While the entire hierarchy seems to be rotten, the VP of JLR particularly stands out for his attitude and arrogance.

I am shocked. Don't know what else to say, but fight it out. Make them repay every penny that you have spent on this car and much more for the mental agony that they have put through.

Last edited by SDP : 18th March 2015 at 12:59.
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Old 18th March 2015, 13:23   #145
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

I read an article on the web yesterday that mentioned a disgruntled Renault Duster owner donating the car to the corporation for picking up garbage in his area. I am not even remotely saying that MM should take this route but its things like this with some media help that really bring these "cheats" to justice.

I cant believe the audacity of the vice president to say things like " JLR need not inform the owner of the sub-standard methods they use to get the car started and moved ". My blood boils reading about this. I applaude MM for his patience and persistence. A solution will come out of this I pray and hope.
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Old 18th March 2015, 13:27   #146
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Having read through this thread, I'm wondering what hope there is for Indian consumers. If people who pay a bomb for supposedly premium products can be treated like this, then pray, what hope do we "budget" consumers have?

Its bad enough that the vehicle seems to be suffering from numerous niggles, (some of which could have resulted in a major mishap), but its even worse that inspite of escalating the matter to Mr.Ratan Tata or Mr.Cyrus Mistry, there is no respite. Even more insane is the temerity of the senior management at JLR to continue to treat MM in this shoddy manner after an escalation to the very top of the echelon.

This entire saga really makes people scared of such companies which are supposedly ethical. Now I seriously appreciate the customer focus of Maruti. One small escalation to even an ordinary associate in their Customer service dept makes the dealer bend over backwards to resolve your complaint. I don't think anyone even disturbs the senior management there.
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Old 18th March 2015, 13:29   #147
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Reminds me of a famous saying:

Quote:
Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me!
You continue to hold on to the wretched car, you continue visiting the same place for your problems, you continue doing the same thing over & over again. The situation isn't going to magically change overnight. Jaguar-Land Rover is incompetent and their cars are troublesome.

My advice in one line (as I've elaborated enough before): Sue them and / or sell your Land Rover!
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Old 18th March 2015, 14:00   #148
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

And meanwhile in China,

Jaguar Land Rover’s Range Rover Evoque SUVs have gearbox problems that the company has failed to fully address, according to China Central Television’s annual consumer rights program shown Sunday, citing customer complaints confirmed by reporter checks.

Jaguar Land Rover apologized to consumers for “the inconvenience and trouble caused” in a posting on its official microblog. The company said it is working to resolve the problem as quickly as possible.

Link here: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-consumer-gala
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Old 18th March 2015, 14:20   #149
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Monkey View Post

Yes, there is an update. Have uncovered a major SCAM with JLR INDIA.
  1. They have resorted to tampering with my vehicle to conceal DEFECTS (caught them on CCTV!!) .
  2. They have even gone to the extent of manipulating JOB CARDS and the SERVICE HISTORY of my Discovery.
  3. A non-genuine part was found in my vehicle. Makes me question the authenticity of repairs and parts used on previous occasions.


A detailed post on the same shall follow soon.

PLEASE BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL WHEN DEALING WITH TATA MOTORS AND JAGUAR LAND ROVER INDIA !!
Can't you file a case against this malpractice? Since you have video proof? Not about consumer court, but official police complaint?

Meanwhile make a poster which reads "This car is better than 1.5 crore LR Disco 4" and hang it over your other cars.
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Old 18th March 2015, 14:46   #150
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Feels like it's a personal war that they have started against you and from now on it will only get worse. Of course no amount of sympathy can do justice in this case, but seriously one thing that I've learnt is you are yourself super determined to not let these people get away with this even if it means loosing a lot of your precious time. Hats off to that!
Also, I would want to add, my brother owns a evoque and his brake pads and disc needed to be changed, he got the shock of his life when a technician from service station approached him telling that he would do the job for him at his residence with genuine parts and at only half the price, this was denied but also not reported pitying the guy in picture, now after reading this I regret as so why we didn't complain!
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