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Old 18th March 2015, 15:12   #151
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

I think its sad the way you are being treated. Its sad that a brand the Top Gear UK loves so much and talks about so much on their show would resort to this kind of behavior in India. If I am not mistaken they troubled Salman Khan as well with his car having to go to the garage for the same problem over and over again. I think they should give you a new car, or atleast one that works. My personal feeling is that you need to take them to court and that might be the only way to get them on the table. Stop threatening them, just send them a legal notice.
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Old 18th March 2015, 16:07   #152
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

My sympathies dude. 1.5Cr aint a small amount. And since you do have a video footage of them tampering around, i think you should definitely take a legal recourse. Its a matter of life and death here.

People might advise you to sell the car but how on earth will you be able to do that when its not working and it wont be ethical to just sell it off without disclosing the facts to the buyer and if you do disclose, no ones gonna buy it.

Dont lose hope, dont lose heart. Just be determined like Harish who had taken up the issue against Skoda for so many years and came out as a winner. Maybe you should try contacting him.

I'll show this thread to my cousin who was mulling over getting a Jag or LR.

All the best to you.

Cheers,
Raj
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Old 18th March 2015, 16:29   #153
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

At the risk of sounding repetitive I would request you to cut your losses and sell off this car. If not anything it is just not worth your time. Loss of money will be the cheapest here. Please factor in the mental agony this is causing you irrespective of the level of patience you have shown here.

Yes you should sue Jaguar Land Rover and TATA Motors for all their malpractices. One can forgive incompetence if the intention is correct but after seeing the last post of yours where clearly they are now resorting to cheating and getting the (no pun intended) monkey off their back.

Ridiculous that this thread exists for so long and still there hasnt been any concrete action despite all the Senior Management at JLR being aware of this issue. I mean why cant they just replace the car for earning some much needed goodwill! Dont Jaguar Land Rover realise that in this day and age they cannot hide? Or is it that they simply dont care?

Unbecoming of a TATA group company to behave like this. They didnt build the group on such principles!
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Old 18th March 2015, 19:27   #154
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
You continue to hold on to the wretched car, you continue visiting the same place for your problems, you continue doing the same thing over & over again. The situation isn't going to magically change overnight. Jaguar-Land Rover is incompetent and their cars are troublesome.

My advice in one line (as I've elaborated enough before): Sue them and / or sell your Land Rover!
Quote:
Originally Posted by miharbe View Post
At the risk of sounding repetitive I would request you to cut your losses and sell off this car. If not anything it is just not worth your time. Loss of money will be the cheapest here. Please factor in the mental agony this is causing you irrespective of the level of patience you have shown here.

Yes you should sue Jaguar Land Rover and TATA Motors for all their malpractices. One can forgive incompetence if the intention is correct but after seeing the last post of yours where clearly they are now resorting to cheating and getting the (no pun intended) monkey off their back.
It is an easy temptation for me to agree with you folks, just so that we have the satisfaction of putting Mad Monkey out of his misery. But, I feel for his plight from the bottom of my heart and his efforts to resolve this have earned my respect completely. It is truly laudable for MM to stay on the case and not give in to the pressure tactics, duplicity and plain cheating attitude exhibited by Tata Motors. I am not sure that I would have been able to sustain myself through such an ordeal.

I am pretty sure that MM is fully aware of the options you have mentioned and has probably explored these in detail. He is living through this experience and I am quite sure he will have the resources to pursue legal recourse, if justified and need be. Maybe he is considering it, maybe he is not. That is a judgement only he will be able to make and with limited knowledge (and not knowing his thought process), any suggestions we make in this regard will be purely speculative. His conscience probably does not allow him to sell off a ticking bomb to any unsuspecting buyer. We have to respect that.

At the same time, going against the wrongs in the system requires a lot of courage. Tatas have repeatedly tricked him in the past and quite obviously he is of a mind to put them in place. It is probably not about the time, or money, or trouble that he has undergone on account of this scrapheap...it is the motivation to see his rights upheld.

This thread has got 80,000+ views...each of the readers is a potential customer/ influencer for the JLR market in India. Let's support MM in his quest (whatever ultimate recourse he decides to pursue) and hope that his tryst ends with a smile.
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Old 18th March 2015, 19:34   #155
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strnglv View Post
I did not expect this from such a reputed establishment such as JLR.
Neither did I. Guess you shouldn't really get your hopes up with Jaguar Land Rover.


Quote:
Originally Posted by junaid View Post
Get JLR to replace the car for you, its a lemon. I hope you only use this car in the city because someday you will definitely get stranded far away from home.
As a matter of fact, I have been stranded outside city limits. I had to make my own arrangements to take the Discovery to the Jaguar Land Rover workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by karan561 View Post
But, i know as you were frustrated with the series of events & your LR letting you down on so many occasions, so you thought lets might as well try this too. It may have backfired in that span.

...Shocking & Really shameful on LRs behalf, i believe even Tata cars shouldn't be trated that way & in this case its a 1 Cr Full size SUV for God sake
It may have possibly backfired in that time span. But at the end of the day, their job is to fix the vehicle. Is it not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xehaust View Post
All the best & rest assured that you have our full support as a passionately driven car community.

PS. This thread needs to be renamed & the "poor service" needs to be replaced with "shockingly gruesome service"
Thank you for the support Xehaust!

Quote:
Originally Posted by amansanc View Post
I would say sell the car off for whatever its worth and get yourself a car which offers you peace of mind.
Sell a car that almost killed me? Twice? who would want to buy it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by krcustoms View Post
no seriously. i always have doubts. the modern cars are so packed with electronics that only a serious technician could and more importantly a JLR trained person only would have any clue.

well there goes my plans of buying a new Discovery (no seriously i was eagerly looking to the 2016 edition!!)

cheers
Krish
The Discovery is maintained at the corporate Workshop, owned and operated by Jaguar Land Rover India (TATA Motors).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
And I refuse to believe nobody in Tata/JLR mgmt. (India or UK) has come across this thread during its entire lifespan, given the scope of mishandling and mismanagement shown by everyone who has handled the unfortunate owner's car and how visible Team-BHP has become in the Indian motoring scene..
My intention is to share my Horrific experience with my fellow BHPians .If Jaguar Land Rover UK cared the situation would surely have been different .


Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo View Post
'Nightmare' would be an understatement. Infact, any superlatives implying horrible would still be an understatement.
Nightmares? I have to sleep to get nightmares, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amtak View Post
We are with you MM.
Thank you for the support!

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
Tata Motors, I believe your sales are at an all time low & you're investing heavily in advertising your products. My advice - Invest 1/100th of that amount & solve MM's misery. No, he may never buy a Tata/JLR & he may never trust you with his money again, but at-least you can restore hope in the minds of thousands of readers of TBHP.
Hope will give Confidence & Confidence will bring Trust in your Brand. And trust is what you need to bring Sales.
Sound advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
MM, this thread is an eye-opener. How customers paying 1+ Cr for a vehicle get treated is appalling to say the least.
I have merely stated the facts. Thanks for the support, SDP! Appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullrevs View Post
A solution will come out of this I pray and hope.
Thanks for the support!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
Now I seriously appreciate the customer focus of Maruti.
Same here! Maruti's service and customer support is second to none!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Reminds me of a famous saying:

.........

My advice in one line (as I've elaborated enough before): Sue them and / or sell your Land Rover!
You are right, I have been fooled by them enough number of times. I am looking at other options like you suggested.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djpeesh View Post
Jaguar Land Rover apologized to consumers for “the inconvenience and trouble caused” in a posting on its official microblog. The company said it is working to resolve the problem as quickly as possible.
Just goes to show their attitude towards the Indian market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge_Viper View Post
Can't you file a case against this malpractice? Since you have video proof? Not about consumer court, but official police complaint?
Already in the works, Dodge_Viper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yashcosmos View Post
Also, I would want to add, my brother owns a evoque and his brake pads and disc needed to be changed, he got the shock of his life when a technician from service station approached him telling that he would do the job for him at his residence with genuine parts and at only half the price, this was denied but also not reported pitying the guy in picture, now after reading this I regret as so why we didn't complain!
I have heard about this from other Jaguar Land Rover owners too. Customers need to be extremely careful when dealing with the Jaguar Land Rover India. Maybe leaving vehicles unattended there isn't a very good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devanshujasani View Post
My personal feeling is that you need to take them to court and that might be the only way to get them on the table. Stop threatening them, just send them a legal notice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmosedici View Post
My sympathies dude. 1.5Cr aint a small amount. And since you do have a video footage of them tampering around, i think you should definitely take a legal recourse. Its a matter of life and death here.
It's already in the works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by miharbe View Post
At the risk of sounding repetitive I would request you to cut your losses and sell off this car. If not anything it is just not worth your time. Loss of money will be the cheapest here.
Reiterating my response, isn't it morally wrong to sell the vehicle knowing its unsafe ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reverse_gear View Post
Let's support MM in his quest (whatever ultimate recourse he decides to pursue) and hope that his tryst ends with a smile.
Thank you so much for the support reverse_gear. I sincerely hope that the present and potential customers learn from my experience.


At everyone who has taken the time to reply and read, thanks a lot! The support and good wishes of this community only reaffirm my faith in the TEAM-BHP community .

Last edited by Mad Monkey : 18th March 2015 at 19:41. Reason: Adding reply to reverse_gear's post
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Old 19th March 2015, 08:48   #156
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Just read this thread and when I opened the news page saw this and had to post it here

http://www.dailysabah.com/automotive...lty-automobile

Quote:
fter an Istanbul court found that the failure in businessman Engin Yakut's Range Rover Vogue-branded vehicle stemmed from a production error, it summoned British luxury automotive company, Jaguar Land Rover Automotive PLC's executives to the trial, which will be held on Sept. 17.
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Old 19th March 2015, 17:27   #157
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Monkey View Post
Instead of admitting to the mistake or apologizing, the Vice President of JLR reprimanded me for:

-Questioning their driver on the fuse

-Emailing my concerns to the Chairman and Ex-Chairman of Tata Sons previously

-Voicing my concerns on the internet.

He also arrogantly added that no one above him in the organization had any authority over him, and no matter where I escalated it, he would have the final say on the matter. He also added that all he had to do was to show how much money was spent on repairs for the vehicle. When I asked why the vehicle was still giving problems even after this, he had no answer.

When I continued to ask about the fuse replacement, his only response was that JLR did not need to inform me every time parts were changed on my vehicle. He said that the driver's job was to get the car to start working again - how he did it and what he changed was not my concern. I asked for this 'policy' of JLR to be confirmed in writing.
If it has come to this and with all the documentation you have, i don't see any reason why you should not file a law suite? If i were JLR i would just take the vehicle back and arrive at a reasonable offer to exchange/upgrade.

Why are these car manufacturers so thick headed and try to cover up facts, when the right thing is to just get it fixed! Same customer would have turned around and thanked and referred more..

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Old 19th March 2015, 21:03   #158
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Mad Monkey, Looks like JLR is taking you for granted and you are being too hard on yourself. This needs a closure, for your peace of mind and for your life to move on to better avenues.

File a lawsuit, let them fear the law because at the moment they are not fearing anything. With all the documentation in place, this will end badly for them and they will squeal when things actually start moving in your favor in the court.

After spending 1.5 crore if the Vice President of JLR talks to you with such arrogance when clearly it's their vehicle that is faulty, its thuggery rather than any class that JLR prides itself in.

I hope every probable JLR buyer reads this thread and takes a U turn from the brand fast and furious style.
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Old 19th March 2015, 22:35   #159
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My dad was considering upgrade to an xf. That plan is off. Just told the SA about this thread. After reading this thread, my dad's decided to drop buying a premium car completely.

The BMW attitude pissed him off and he's not an Audi fan. His previous car was the E class and he had tons of issues.

It looks like it's either the i20 auto or the Ecosport Auto.

Last edited by djpeesh : 19th March 2015 at 22:40.
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Old 20th March 2015, 14:36   #160
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Here is something everyone on here may find interesting...States that JLR was bought to take revenge from Ford. Ironic that ford is focusing on consumers more than ever in India & JLR is just doing whats mentioned in this thread.

http://www.kenfolios.com/a-must-read-story-of-ratan-tata-buying-jaguar-to-take-revenge-from-ford/

Its a shame that they dont cover consumer stories on online platforms & only focus on glorifying pieces.

Last edited by Xehaust : 20th March 2015 at 14:41.
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Old 20th March 2015, 14:43   #161
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xehaust View Post
Here is something everyone on here may find interesting...
http://www.kenfolios.com/a-must-read...nge-from-ford/

Its a shame that they dont cover consumer stories on online platforms & only focus on glorifying pieces.
Its a bad cut and paste job of a PTI Story: http://www.financialexpress.com/arti...-buyout/53884/

Glorifying pieces are what bring a lot of places money. I think the time is ripe for a Consumer Reports style magazine in India
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Old 20th March 2015, 19:15   #162
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

All options including legal, media and the chairman's office are being explored.

My intention here is to caution my fellow BHPians on how low Jaguar Land Rover can go!

Unethical business conduct - Jaguar Land Rover India believes in silencing rather than servicing their customers


In December 2013,while I was traveling on the Eastern Freeway, the steering wheel on my Discovery 4 refused to center and locked up. I somehow managed to bring the Discovery to a halt on the freeway - I was only able to do this because there weren't too many other cars on the road. If traffic conditions had been different, this could have resulted in a fatal accident for myself and others on the road.

The vehicle was taken to the workshop and, as JLR India assured me at the time, it was "repaired".

However, I refused to take delivery of the vehicle since there was no explanation of why this problem had occurred and no written assurance that it would not happen again. I considered the car unsafe and on those grounds, I refused to take it back. JLR India tried to arm-twist me into changing my mind by billing me for a loaner vehicle and for parking charges for the Discovery at the workshop- a bill which amounted to a few lacs.

To seek help on the matter, I sent detailed documentation of the issues with the vehicle to Chairman and Ex-Chairman's office.

After following up multiple times, I was finally put through to the General Manager of the Chairman's office (Tata Sons). He intervened and only then was I granted an audience with the Vice President of Jaguar Land Rover India (Tata motors) on the 16th of March, 2014 at the Jaguar Land Rover Corporate showroom. During the course of this meeting, Vice President admonished me for approaching the chairman's office and also voicing my concerns on the internet.He agreed to provide me extended warranty on the vehicle under certain conditions.
These were the following conditions handed to me by the Vice President of Jaguar Land Rover India (Tata motors) and the National Service Head on a piece of paper minus the company letterhead .


“Letter required from customer covering the following points
  1. Request for extension of goodwill warranty coverage on the vehicle
  2. Any request for waiver of outstanding charges
  3. Acknowledgement of existing goodwill warranty .
  4. Acknowledgement of satisfactory resolution raised thus far ( along with satisfaction note attached)
  5. Undertaking that in view of goodwill extended by JLR India, the customer will not knowingly/ unknowingly resort to spreading any ill will, verbal or written in the public domain.”
Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service-letter-rohit-suri.jpg


The Vice President of Jaguar Land Rover India (Tata motors) asked me to email these back to them from my email address.These conditions are clearly unethical, unexpected from a large conglomerate, and are in complete violation of my rights as a customer.



Tampering/manipulating of official service history

On 8th May 2014 the airbag issue reappeared. This time the National Service Head Jaguar Land Rover India (Tata motors) informed me that the LED accessories that were installed were the cause of the issue . However this was the first time this was being brought to my notice. The fact that these accessories were installed at the Jaguar Land Rover India Corporate workshop itself, was omitted from all communication . I have the original job card recording the installation of accessories . However National Service Head has refused to confirm this over email .
Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service-email-led-fog-lamps.jpg

E-Mail correspondence with the National Service Head. Never received a response to my e-mail.

I can only conclude that this installation has been removed from Jaguar Land Rover India service records so that they are not liable. This however appears to be a moot point since the problem with the airbag persists even after the removal of the accessories.

Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service-job-card-original.jpg

Original Job Card

Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service-service-history.jpg

Notice the encircled entry no longer mentions accessory installation

The Tata Group is steeped in, and known for, its values of trust, integrity, and leadership.

Ethical behavior cannot be enforced by statutes and through written documents .The people at Jaguar land Rover India (Premier Car Division TATA Motors) don't seem to care about the "Tata Code of Conduct" .


Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service-ethics.jpg

An excerpt from the "Tata Code of Conduct"



Quote:
Originally Posted by madan80 View Post
Just read this thread and when I opened the news page saw this and had to post it here

http://www.dailysabah.com/automotive...lty-automobile
Fingers crossed ... I wish the courts in India start functioning in a similar manner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
If it has come to this and with all the documentation you have, i don't see any reason why you should not file a law suite? If i were JLR i would just take the vehicle back and arrive at a reasonable offer to exchange/upgrade.

Why are these car manufacturers so thick headed and try to cover up facts, when the right thing is to just get it fixed! Same customer would have turned around and thanked and referred more..

Have been looking at my options legally. I wish you were JLR, would've made my life so much easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Mad Monkey, Looks like JLR is taking you for granted and you are being too hard on yourself. This needs a closure, for your peace of mind and for your life to move on to better avenues.

File a lawsuit, let them fear the law because at the moment they are not fearing anything. With all the documentation in place, this will end badly for them and they will squeal when things actually start moving in your favor in the court.
Noted, thanks. As I said, it's already in the works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djpeesh View Post
My dad was considering upgrade to an xf. That plan is off. Just told the SA about this thread. After reading this thread, my dad's decided to drop buying a premium car completely.

The BMW attitude pissed him off and he's not an Audi fan. His previous car was the E class and he had tons of issues.

It looks like it's either the i20 auto or the Ecosport Auto.
Experiences like these remind you why the Japanese and Korean vehicles have been 'safe-bets'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xehaust View Post
Here is something everyone on here may find interesting...States that JLR was bought to take revenge from Ford. Ironic that ford is focusing on consumers more than ever in India & JLR is just doing whats mentioned in this thread.

http://www.kenfolios.com/a-must-read-story-of-ratan-tata-buying-jaguar-to-take-revenge-from-ford/

Its a shame that they dont cover consumer stories on online platforms & only focus on glorifying pieces.
Well, let's hope he buys my Land Rover too!
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Old 22nd March 2015, 12:35   #163
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

Hi MM,

Looks like the dam of your patience is finally breaking / overflowing. About time, I would have thought.

Given the level of problems you have been having and the quantum of gadgetry in the car, I am tempted to think that this is more of a software issue - some VIRUS!!!

Assuming that it is completely JLR's fault and in the event you are taking the legal route, may I suggest something (tantamounts to going all out):

1. File a complaint against the company as well as the top executives personally - people don't care as long as it is the organization, but when they have to go to the police station / court personally, all hell breaks loose. Perhaps file an FIR (non-culpable homicide - you were almost killed twice??). Even file a complaint in the Company Law Board for winding up of the company (not that this does anything but builds up pressure).

The next few points (2, 3, 4) all have a common theme - Nothing works like money or something that impact the inflow of money (sales & profitability) :

2. Send a copy of the complaint / FIR to the stock exchanges in India and UK and to the top investors and equity analysts in both the places (all this info is easy to find on exchange & company websites). This becomes all the more relevant when large investors (equity analysts) start asking questions in the quarterly results calls.

3. Most importantly, send the complaint / FIR to equivalent of TBHP / Overdrive / Autocar, etc. of China. China is the biggest market for JLR - if sales in that market are impacted, it hurts even more.

4. A PR overdrive - park your car outside the JLR showroom with a big banner asking others not to buy the car and give your contact details for them to call you or mail you - maybe put a link to this forum for everyone to read.

Mind you, if you are wrong, they may come after your for defamation. This is where the earlier disclaimer or it being completely JLR's fault becomes very important.

Regards
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Old 23rd March 2015, 10:24   #164
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

MM, that is a sweet letter that they have asked you to sign, perhaps they still believe they can get away with near-murder.

At present, it seems your best bet is to take them to court.

Also, consider sharing your case with the Transport ministry and a tweet and email to our Hon'ble PMOs office as well, you never know what may come out of it. It could be the start of the definition of a "Lemon Law" in India which seems to now be very much needed.
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Old 23rd March 2015, 10:52   #165
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Default Re: Land Rover Discovery 4: A near death experience, continuous problems & poor service

MM, i believe you misunderstood me when i said technicians are incompetent. i meant to say the JLR India (yes authorized by JLR Global) techs are useless.

my take is unless the techs have been trained in the UK facilities for a considerable amount of time (highly unlikely) i don't think they will have the first clue about sorting a complex problem that you are facing. sadly this shed light to the sheer incompetence in indian auto industry. these are super expensive cars with a market price well above 200% of the price in rest of the world and all you get is a lousy service and a bunch of jokers who think they can get away with anything.

now i am thinking how good any of these car companies (i.e BMW, Merc, Volvo) in india are? sorry don't mean to distract from the core issue but this question really needs to be answered and steps need to be taken so that peoples hard earned money is not wasted.

cheers
KR
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