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Old 18th March 2014, 18:44   #16
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Default Re: Safety issue with poorly designed ORVM blinkers & Missing fender indicators

I am not against or for side repeater lamps integrated with ORVMs.

Regulatory requirement (AIS-008) says that the geometric visibility of the side repeater lamps should be there in zone of 5 deg to 60 deg. Refer snapshot (highlighted in red, view from the top with vehicle direction shown by arrow).

All vehicles plying on the road are meeting this requirement. 5 deg should be sufficient for vehicle approaching from side to safely notice side repeater lamp glowing.

As highlighted by a4anurag in pictures above, the protruded design takes care of the requirement.
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Old 18th March 2014, 20:43   #17
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Default Re: Safety issue with poorly designed ORVM blinkers & Missing fender indicators

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarathlal View Post
It is much more visible than the fender mounted indicator.
Remember, the early years of motoring relied on the stretched out hand signals for indicating the turns, which is most closely mimicked by these ORVM mounted turn indicators. They 'stretch out' and indicates.
Well, incidences of these mirrors broken / hanging by their wires and totally missing are also seen widely. What happens in these cases ? The body mounted one is less susceptible to go "missing".

I have seen scores of Honda's with this problem - broken or missing mirrors, probably due to prohibitive cost of spares ?
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Old 18th March 2014, 21:38   #18
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Default Re: Safety issue with poorly designed ORVM blinkers & Missing fender indicators

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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
  • Even if one is riding/driving next to this car, the driver on the other car (if attentive) will easily be able to spot the blinking indicator
To sum it up, its convex ORVMs along with a driver's usual practice of being attentive that can prevent disasters on our roads.
Totally agree. You can have a hundred airbags in your car with all kinds of advanced gadgetry to keep you safe, but the most basic rule - the violation of which is the root cause of many accidents - is 'keep your eyes on the road and your hands on the wheel'. I understand that, but this occurred in broad daylight and I managed to avoid collision by noticing the other car getting closer to the white line. I think we can safely rule out lack/lapse of attention.

It may be possible that I would have noticed the ORVM LED if it was dark. But IMO, design changes should make turn indicator lamps or any warning system in general more easily noticeable. Not the other way round, which I suspect here.

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Wrong! To have both fender indicator & ORVM indicator together is illegal.
I learn a little more each day... thanks for the info. Could you share some references?

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
No manufacturers will provide both.
Yes they do (or at least they did). Check out the Optra Magnum and I think even the earlier versions of Corolla had it. There may be others too. I'm yet to find an example in the current crop of cars.

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Could you tell me which car did you face this problem in?
It was an i10. IIRC i10 is not available with ORVM turn indicators anymore so it was probably an earlier model.

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Problem Solved!

Anurag.
I believe thats an example of a 'proper design' if I may say so. Probably explains why I never had any problems with Marutis. But it's also true that this problem has happened with me all of once until now.

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Originally Posted by anoop_lamba View Post
I am not against or for side repeater lamps integrated with ORVMs.
Neither am I. All I'm trying to understand is whether any others have faced this situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anoop_lamba View Post
Regulatory requirement (AIS-008) says that the geometric visibility of the side repeater lamps should be there in zone of 5 deg to 60 deg. Refer snapshot
Thanks for the illustration and info. I looked up AIS-008 and found something at https://araiindia.com Is that the source?

Thanks to everyone for the inputs.
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Old 19th March 2014, 11:00   #19
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Default Re: Safety issue with poorly designed ORVM blinkers & Missing fender indicators

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Originally Posted by isiv View Post



Thanks for the illustration and info. I looked up AIS-008 and found something at https://araiindia.com Is that the source?

Thanks to everyone for the inputs.
Yes isiv. ARAI is the agency which checks the compliance of each vehicle model/variant against well defined regulations (mostly AIS-***, Autmotive Indian Standards). Only after ARAI finds that a vehicle is meeting all regulatory requirements, the vehicle gets certificate and can be commercially sold.
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Old 22nd March 2014, 08:11   #20
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Default Re: Safety issue with poorly designed ORVM blinkers & Missing fender indicators

Bigger concern is the broken ORVMs in cars taking away the side indicators too. Earlier, these features were present only in the expensive cars whose owners rarely postpone replacing a broken ORVM. With the same 'feature' becoming available in entry level cars of the common man, there are higher instances where they don't bother to replace a broken ORVM, especially the LHS one since the law only mandates RHS mirror.

Integrated turn signals and electric motor becoming standard on smaller cars have increased the cost of the ORVM assembly to exorbitant levels that a lot of people will not bother to replace a broken one. They didn't even replace mirrors when it used to be the regular Rs. 200-300 one; so imagine their reaction to replace something that costs 10-20 times that.

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Wrong! To have both fender indicator & ORVM indicator together is illegal. No manufacturers will provide both.
Can you please throw some light on why it is illegal to have both ORVM and fender mounted indicators together? Is there a rule that says so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarathlal View Post
It is much more visible than the fender mounted indicator.
Remember, the early years of motoring relied on the stretched out hand signals for indicating the turns, which is most closely mimicked by these ORVM mounted turn indicators. They 'stretch out' and indicates.
I don't think the ORVM auto-folds after the indicator is turned off. You don't put your hand out always in the hand signal era, you only do it when you need to signal.
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Old 22nd March 2014, 12:41   #21
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Default Re: Safety issue with poorly designed ORVM blinkers & Missing fender indicators

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Originally Posted by isiv View Post
...I learn a little more each day... thanks for the info. Could you share some references?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
....Can you please throw some light on why it is illegal to have both ORVM and fender mounted indicators together? Is there a rule that says so?...
I had read about this in one of the threads. I can't recollect where exactly was that. I got the information about the legal side from there.
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Old 23rd March 2014, 11:29   #22
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Default Re: Safety issue with poorly designed ORVM blinkers & Missing fender indicators

Well before seeing if mirror integrated indicators are right or wrong, are we not missing something basic here.
1.A guy taking right is to be in right most lane. How can one take a right turn when he is in left most lane.
2.If at all he still continues that, should he not look into mirror and let car in right lane pass through?

While the above might not be followed in here by all drivers, I dont see a problem w.r.to designs off indicators integrated to ORVM.
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Old 23rd March 2014, 13:44   #23
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Default Re: Safety issue with poorly designed ORVM blinkers & Missing fender indicators

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Originally Posted by isiv View Post
Check out the Optra Magnum and I think even the earlier versions of Corolla had it.
Add the Indigo e-CS to that list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
1.A guy taking right is to be in right most lane. How can one take a right turn when he is in left most lane.
de rigueur in bengalooro mostly with cabbies and autos. Private cars occasionally develop a strong urge to 'blend' with the local style

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2.If at all he still continues that, should he not look into mirror and let car in right lane pass through?
Again, not necessary in bengalooroo...
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Old 23rd March 2014, 15:08   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
Well before seeing if mirror integrated indicators are right or wrong, are we not missing something basic here.
1.A guy taking right is to be in right most lane. How can one take a right turn when he is in left most lane.
2.If at all he still continues that, should he not look into mirror and let car in right lane pass through?

While the above might not be followed in here by all drivers, I dont see a problem w.r.to designs off indicators integrated to ORVM.
I think you need to have blinkers attached to such morons themselves, not just their cars.
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Old 24th March 2014, 00:12   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post

I think you need to have blinkers attached to such morons themselves, not just their cars.
No matter what you attach these set of people will never learn and understand road sense. They will still be drive/rise like the road is owned by them.

Being attentive and proactive in decisions on road will keep us safer rather than thinking that they will look into their ORVM or indicate a Lane change or even understand the meaning of signaling for a lane change.

Anticipation and Luck are the main keys in India to have a smooth ride/drive.

Anurag.
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Old 24th March 2014, 01:58   #26
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Default Re: Safety issue with poorly designed ORVM blinkers & Missing fender indicators

Ever since I read this thread topic, I had been watching vehicles taking turns ahead of me for the past 3-4 days. Frankly, I couldn't find anything wrong with with the ORVM indicators on any of the vehicles that I saw. (I myself don't have ORVM indicators, but would love to have them on my car any day instead of the current fender-mounted ones.)

Infact, sometimes I have felt that the ORVM indicator is more helpful in certain positions when you are relatively in a more "left-ish" position with respect to the car taking right-turn at the front.Since the ORVM protrudes out to the right a bit more than the fender, it is relatively easier to spot them blinking from certain positions where you would have to crane your neck rightwards to even start seeing the fender.

Also the ORVM indicator has the advantage of height too. Thus even if you are so close to the car ahead, that its fender is under your bonnet -line and not visible, chances are that you may still notice a blinking ORVM indicator.This is not to present an argument with the thread-owner, but this is what I have felt on a few occasions.

Most OEM ORVM indicators protrude well outside to the side and back for all-round visibility. I just can't figure out the angle at which he found the fender-mounted indicator to be better visible than ORVM ones. May be there is a problem with the ORVM design of that particular i10 model, which he has mentioned. can some i10 owners among us, with OEM ORVM blinkers clarify this?
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Old 24th March 2014, 02:45   #27
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Originally Posted by VinodDevil81 View Post
May be there is a problem with the ORVM design of that particular i10 model, which he has mentioned. can some i10 owners among us, with OEM ORVM blinkers clarify this?
I don't think the blinkers on the ORVM on i10 are of a wrong design. They are equally visible in all angles as any other ORVM blinkers available.

I like them as much as on the one that my car have (New Swift). The blinker is thin and sleek to look at.

Anurag.

Last edited by a4anurag : 24th March 2014 at 02:46.
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Old 14th April 2014, 12:50   #28
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Default Re: Safety issue with poorly designed ORVM blinkers & Missing fender indicators

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I don't think the blinkers on the ORVM on i10 are of a wrong design. They are equally visible in all angles as any other ORVM blinkers available.
I agree. Here is an example photo I captured of an i10 ORVM.
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Old 14th April 2014, 13:47   #29
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Default Re: Safety issue with poorly designed ORVM blinkers & Missing fender indicators

I cant really recall how many times the ORVM's on my cars have been brushed by vehicles having a vertical body-side (in other words, Busses, Vans etc). In most cases the ORVM's fold outward or somehow survived the ordeal. In some cases the inexpensive plastic cover for the ORVM required replacing. However, with those experiences, I really think, that ORVM installed blinkers are an unnecessary probable expense item risk on an already elevated car ownership cost these days.

Infact given a choice, I would not opt for ORVM mounted blinkers, even if the mirrors fold electrically.
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Old 14th April 2014, 14:30   #30
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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
However, with those experiences, I really think, that ORVM installed blinkers are an unnecessary probable expense item risk on an already elevated car ownership cost these days.
You are absolutely right here. The ORVM itself is a decently costly unit to get it replaced if an brush-up happens.

I currently own the latest Swift ZDi that has ORVM integrated blinkers. APSRTC bus comesto close and the blinker is only damaged. Replacement cost Rs 1356.

But. .

If looked from another point of view, in the latest generation cars, only the blinker/ORVM cowl is damaged if the brush up is not too great, but if the fender mounted blinker gets a scratch, the surrounding body panel too is destroyed hence costs would be more.

Anurag.

Last edited by a4anurag : 14th April 2014 at 14:39.
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