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Old 3rd April 2014, 00:08   #16
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

I am sorry, to ask this mate, but why would you pick up a *luxury* vehicle from a mass manufacturer like Maruti Suzuki. If I as was looking fora a Petrol sedan in this segment, I would just buy an Accord or Camry(CDK verison) in this price range rather than risk a mechanic who has been trained with a Maruti 800 to service a 18 lakh car.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 00:48   #17
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I am sorry, to ask this mate, but why would you pick up a *luxury* vehicle from a mass manufacturer like Maruti Suzuki. If I as was looking fora a Petrol sedan in this segment, I would just buy an Accord or Camry(CDK verison) in this price range rather than risk a mechanic who has been trained with a Maruti 800 to service a 18 lakh car.
I have heard a lot of that to be frank. Quiet a lot have even told me I am crazy to pay that much for a Maruti. But the sheer driving pleasure of that car makes you forget everything else. I test drove the accord but didn't like it.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 01:33   #18
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

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Originally Posted by rockporiom View Post

Isn't there anything I can do. No legal options? Further the discount is normal that was given on Kizashi. Plus why the 2011 billing?
Hey Rockporiom,

It's sad to note about your troubles with the Kizashi. However these things do happen and you must not get bogged down.

Regarding legal options, well I must say that this is the way to go. Please don't shy away from this because it takes time. Also you must understand that half the problems are solved when the other party receives a legal notice, because its not only you who has to deal with the so called legal hassles.

Couple of things that might help you (This is based upon the presumption that your vehicle is an accidental/demo/showroom car):-

1. The dealer has committed Fraud with you on the following grounds :-

As the dealer sold you a different vehicle than what you had paid for( i.e. a new vehicle instead of a accidental/demo/showroom vehicle) , hence it is apparent that this act of the dealer falls in the category of Fraud according to the Indian Contract Act 1972 .

Section 17 defines "Fraud". It means and includes any of the following acts committed by a party to a contract, or with his connivance, or by his agents, with intent to deceive another party thereto his agent, or to induce him to enter into the contract.

Further Section 17(1) :- States the suggestion as a fact, of that which is not true, by one who does not believe it to be true

Section 17(2) :- The active concealment of a fact by one having knowledge or belief of the fact.


In your case, the Dealer not only conveyed to you that the Vehicle was new and not damaged, but also concealed that the vehicle was damaged/accidental/used. Hence his this act falls within the aforementioned section.

2. Now coming to the question that you should have been aware that these defects might be there in a Car that has been at the Stockyard for a couple of years.

What you must remember is that not all defects are visible to the naked eye on first inspection. Law of Torts states that there are two distinct type of defects, Patent Defects and Latent Defects. Patent defects being those which can be clearly seen for eg. a dent or a big scratch. On the other hand Latent defects are those which are not visible to the eye and only crop up once the user starts using the good or these can simply be said to be "hidden defects".

You are well covered by the remedy provided under Torts as well due to the numerous problems that came to light as and when you used the vehicle.

Remember the reason why there is no Lemon Law in India is because of us, we are the ones who let dealers take "Undue Advantage" of us. Until and unless you as a consumer will not take a stand, the dealer will go on to make a fool out of some other unsuspecting buyer as well .

I would urge you to fight it in the court, it's your legal right.

Last edited by Enigmatic : 3rd April 2014 at 01:47.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 03:13   #19
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmatic View Post
Hey Rockporiom,

It's sad to note about your troubles with the Kizashi. However these things do happen and you must not get bogged down.

Regarding legal options, well I must say that this is the way to go. Please don't shy away from this because it takes time. Also you must understand that half the problems are solved when the other party receives a legal notice, because its not only you who has to deal with the so called legal hassles.

Couple of things that might help you (This is based upon the presumption that your vehicle is an accidental/demo/showroom car):-

1. The dealer has committed Fraud with you on the following grounds :-

As the dealer sold you a different vehicle than what you had paid for( i.e. a new vehicle instead of a accidental/demo/showroom vehicle) , hence it is apparent that this act of the dealer falls in the category of Fraud according to the Indian Contract Act 1972 .

Section 17 defines "Fraud". It means and includes any of the following acts committed by a party to a contract, or with his connivance, or by his agents, with intent to deceive another party thereto his agent, or to induce him to enter into the contract.

Further Section 17(1) :- States the suggestion as a fact, of that which is not true, by one who does not believe it to be true

Section 17(2) :- The active concealment of a fact by one having knowledge or belief of the fact.


In your case, the Dealer not only conveyed to you that the Vehicle was new and not damaged, but also concealed that the vehicle was damaged/accidental/used. Hence his this act falls within the aforementioned section.

2. Now coming to the question that you should have been aware that these defects might be there in a Car that has been at the Stockyard for a couple of years.

What you must remember is that not all defects are visible to the naked eye on first inspection. Law of Torts states that there are two distinct type of defects, Patent Defects and Latent Defects. Patent defects being those which can be clearly seen for eg. a dent or a big scratch. On the other hand Latent defects are those which are not visible to the eye and only crop up once the user starts using the good or these can simply be said to be "hidden defects".

You are well covered by the remedy provided under Torts as well due to the numerous problems that came to light as and when you used the vehicle.

Remember the reason why there is no Lemon Law in India is because of us, we are the ones who let dealers take "Undue Advantage" of us. Until and unless you as a consumer will not take a stand, the dealer will go on to make a fool out of some other unsuspecting buyer as well .

I would urge you to fight it in the court, it's your legal right.
Thanks enigmatic. I will be talking to my lawyer tomorrow regarding this matter and decide on what action to take. I will be writing a letter to Maruti one final time to see if they are able to solve my problem. If not then I am left with no choice. I have all the service documents and bills with me and my most important proof my purchase invoice clearly stating my purchase date as march 2013.

As I understand I will need a special consumer court lawyer for such a case. Will ask my lawyer for reference.

One last question will the discount offered work out against me? Can maruti counter claim the discounts to be special for my car due to its condition? This is the biggest question in my mind and the reason I have been mum for a long time.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 07:30   #20
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Rockporium have you have the old adage "Caveat Emptor"? When you are buying a car that sells in single digits and often hugely discounted, you need to ensure that the VIN is decoded so that you know the date of manufacture with certainty BEFORE buying it.

In this case sorry to say some basic hygiene does not seem to have been followed. It is rather unforgivable in my book that you have not even seen the RC to cross check the DOM. In any case I would not trust that date since our RTO/dealer nexus often means that those are malleable. Better to get member wildon's expert opinion on it in his VIN decoding thread.

Regarding the dealer claiming it was sold in 2011, don't you have your original sales invoice with the date clearly mentioned? Why is this even an issue?

You have purchased the most expensive Maruti car that is sold and from your opening post it seems this was not your first Maruti. Please seek an appointment with your service station's GM and seek clarifications on all issues failing which you should talk directly to Maruti corporate. Trust me for a high value customer as yourself they will be very sensitive.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 08:07   #21
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Rockporium have you have the old adage "Caveat Emptor"? When you are buying a car that sells in single digits and often hugely discounted, you need to ensure that the VIN is decoded so that you know the date of manufacture with certainty BEFORE buying it.


Regarding the dealer claiming it was sold in 2011, don't you have your original sales invoice with the date clearly mentioned? Why is this even an issue?
How would decoding the VIN for the Kizashi help? Everyone knew that it was a market dud and they were basically clearing stock in 2013 by offering 5L+ discounts on these cars that had just been standing.

I think he clearly mentions that his invoice shows it as a 2013 purchase. Most likely a error while filling in the details on the system perhaps?
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Old 3rd April 2014, 08:13   #22
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

Rockporium, I would agree with noopster's view. Before taking up the legal route, it makes sense to take up the issue first with the dealer's management chain, then with Maruti territory, regional, and national management in that order.
Maintain documentation of the interactions at these levels - these can come in useful if it finally becomes necessary to pursue this in the courts.
By that I mean, serve the respondent hard-copy letter by registered post, and follow up with email/personal visits to document any sort of agreements/commitments.
Offer the respondent a chance to look into your problem and solve it first time. If it does not work, then take it up with the next level in the chain. Many of us are prone to copy the entire chain in the first few communications - that way we lose leverage- so avoid that practice.
Also avoid threatening legal action in your interaction, or threatening about bad press (e.g. newspapers or on social media). Rather give them the opportunity to solve the issue. Whether you go to media or the courts, is anyway a lever you can always pull at your convenience - no point letting them know of any such plans in advance.

Finally legal route including consumer forums do need some investment of time and money. You need to be well prepared -documentary evidences of the issue itself, evidence of exhausting the possibility of amicably settling the issue etc. So therefore, keep this as last resort.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 08:25   #23
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockporiom View Post
Just came to my mind. Does the RC book have the year of manufacturing on it? If yes will ask dad to check it since I haven't seen the RC till now.
Yes, the RC should have the date of manufacture. If that says something different to what Maruti claims now, the legal aspect gets additional points and the dealer would have to face the consequences of misrepresentation of facts to the state government too.

If the RC says 2013 and it is actually 2011, then that is enough proof for their fraud, though you would need some concrete proof for the actual manufacturing date. No amount of discount given would justify falsifying data in the RC by the dealer.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 10:30   #24
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

Dear Rock

The car certainly reeks of a "Lemon".

However, I cannot discount the fact that the MS ASC has really been pretty helpful from what I could understand from the post.

Thank god you have a MS car(albeit a low sale one). Just imagine had this been a Skoda or even a VW(same family siblings), the woes would have been multiplied by an infinite X.

To give to the credit of MS, even a Rs. 1.2 lac steering set up was changed under warranty.

Also, all tie rods and connectors are covered. To give credit to the ASC, I could atleast see the pro activeness and the intent of solving your concerns.

Just be patient and in the background, try to source a reliable Mech who is adept at high end cars and take a second opinion.

However, though my sincere sympathies are with you, at the same time, looking from the positive aspect, I would give full marks to MS ASC for being proactive and empathetic towards your condition at the same time.

Just keep the trust!!

Last edited by arnabchak : 3rd April 2014 at 10:42.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 10:32   #25
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

That's pretty bad. I have read your thread on the issues and this is way too much to digest. I agree with the members who advise you on the legal route - delay it as much as you can. Atleast, you are NOT dealing with Skoda / VW!

You can talk to regional service team and ask assistance from someone at factory level. May be you can schedule time with them to detail your issues (in person) and also get them to do a thorough check. I doubt how many technicians in your A$$ will be trained to handle this car.

Talk to them assertive and make it clear that you need ALL the defective parts to be changed under warranty and also you need to get 2 years additional goodwill warranty. I am sure you can get them to agree for atleast 1 year. And if all the defective parts are changed, then things would start working fine for you I believe.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 10:34   #26
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

Rockporiom, sorry to hear of your travails.

Don't pursue the legal route just yet, explore all your options with Maruti. People might say that you've bought an 18 lakh Maruti and laugh, but the flipside of that is that you are dealing with arguably one of the most customer-friendly car companies in India. Put your concerns before them (the history of failures on the car, the mention of the 2011 invoicing date, etc.) and the GM of the dealership you took the car from. Specifically ask the GM how it's even possible that the other dealership said the car was invoiced in 2011? It could be a technical/clerical error but it does ring alarm bells.

Like joybhowmik correctly said, document everything if you wish to pursue a legal route. I'd say you shouldn't. Shaking some trees and raising hell at the dealership level and with Maruti will get you some help and attention. That's the upside of owning a Maruti.

The ideal thing would be to fix up the car and sell it, but taking such a huge loss would be hard to stomach, understandably.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 11:50   #27
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

Quote:
Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
Rockporium, I would agree with noopster's view. Before taking up the legal route, it makes sense to take up the issue first with the dealer's management chain, then with Maruti territory, regional, and national management in that order.
Maintain documentation of the interactions at these levels - these can come in useful if it finally becomes necessary to pursue this in the courts.
By that I mean, serve the respondent hard-copy letter by registered post, and follow up with email/personal visits to document any sort of agreements/commitments.
Offer the respondent a chance to look into your problem and solve it first time. If it does not work, then take it up with the next level in the chain. Many of us are prone to copy the entire chain in the first few communications - that way we lose leverage- so avoid that practice.
Also avoid threatening legal action in your interaction, or threatening about bad press (e.g. newspapers or on social media). Rather give them the opportunity to solve the issue. Whether you go to media or the courts, is anyway a lever you can always pull at your convenience - no point letting them know of any such plans in advance.

Finally legal route including consumer forums do need some investment of time and money. You need to be well prepared -documentary evidences of the issue itself, evidence of exhausting the possibility of amicably settling the issue etc. So therefore, keep this as last resort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Yes, the RC should have the date of manufacture. If that says something different to what Maruti claims now, the legal aspect gets additional points and the dealer would have to face the consequences of misrepresentation of facts to the state government too.

If the RC says 2013 and it is actually 2011, then that is enough proof for their fraud, though you would need some concrete proof for the actual manufacturing date. No amount of discount given would justify falsifying data in the RC by the dealer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnabchak View Post
Dear Rock

The car certainly reeks of a "Lemon".

However, I cannot discount the fact that the MS ASC has really been pretty helpful from what I could understand from the post.

Thank god you have a MS car(albeit a low sale one). Just imagine had this been a Skoda or even a VW(same family siblings), the woes would have been multiplied by an infinite X.

To give to the credit of MS, even a Rs. 1.2 lac steering set up was changed under warranty.

Also, all tie rods and connectors are covered. To give credit to the ASC, I could atleast see the pro activeness and the intent of solving your concerns.

Just be patient and in the background, try to source a reliable Mech who is adept at high end cars and take a second opinion.

However, though my sincere sympathies are with you, at the same time, looking from the positive aspect, I would give full marks to MS ASC for being proactive and empathetic towards your condition at the same time.

Just keep the trust!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
That's pretty bad. I have read your thread on the issues and this is way too much to digest. I agree with the members who advise you on the legal route - delay it as much as you can. Atleast, you are NOT dealing with Skoda / VW!

You can talk to regional service team and ask assistance from someone at factory level. May be you can schedule time with them to detail your issues (in person) and also get them to do a thorough check. I doubt how many technicians in your A$$ will be trained to handle this car.

Talk to them assertive and make it clear that you need ALL the defective parts to be changed under warranty and also you need to get 2 years additional goodwill warranty. I am sure you can get them to agree for atleast 1 year. And if all the defective parts are changed, then things would start working fine for you I believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iliketurtles View Post
Rockporiom, sorry to hear of your travails.

Don't pursue the legal route just yet, explore all your options with Maruti. People might say that you've bought an 18 lakh Maruti and laugh, but the flipside of that is that you are dealing with arguably one of the most customer-friendly car companies in India. Put your concerns before them (the history of failures on the car, the mention of the 2011 invoicing date, etc.) and the GM of the dealership you took the car from. Specifically ask the GM how it's even possible that the other dealership said the car was invoiced in 2011? It could be a technical/clerical error but it does ring alarm bells.

Like joybhowmik correctly said, document everything if you wish to pursue a legal route. I'd say you shouldn't. Shaking some trees and raising hell at the dealership level and with Maruti will get you some help and attention. That's the upside of owning a Maruti.

The ideal thing would be to fix up the car and sell it, but taking such a huge loss would be hard to stomach, understandably.

Hey guys thank you for your quick reply. As for the RC book will check today for the date of manufacturing on it. I have mailed Maruti many times and have also recieved calls from them which are recorded in my phone. I was promised that all the problems will be solved.

The service center has no doubt been helpful and I don't doubt them for a minute. I have also mentioned in many of my mails to not shout at them for the fault of sales team.

I had read a thread somewhere on team bhp that a bhpian was given a vxi wagonr with a 6 month old billing date and it seems someone had bought that car and cancelled at final moment. Also, just found out some more scary facts an sx4 is lying for sale in a dealership which was sold on "bharosa" and was returned due to insufficient funds that means the car was given to hin without taking payment. That car has already been billed and is for sale. The meter has also been turned to 0 the car has actually traveled 4k kms.

Last edited by rockporiom : 3rd April 2014 at 11:52.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 12:06   #28
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

If your dealer has committed fraud with you, then you need to escalate to Maruti at above Regional Manager levels because the regional manager may be in sync with the dealer. Surely Maruti will address your issues appropriately, without you having to take to legal recourse. It's not for nothing that the company has such a legendary rep in the market for after sales.

Secondly you are not going to find real good perceptive mechanics who have exposure to such cars in a MASS. They will surely not waste their time there, either they will be lone-ranger independent types or they will run independent ops with the specific intention to fleece the gullible who drops in into their lair. And you are definitely not going to find them next door. You may need to do some research and maybe make a trip south or even try the Hyderabad MASS who are supposed to be more competent in dealing with this car.

Since, there is a good possibility you were duped by the dealer, he seems to be only intent on playing for time and waiting for warranty period to expire to write this off as a successful conjob.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 12:21   #29
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
If your dealer has committed fraud with you, then you need to escalate to Maruti at above Regional Manager levels because the regional manager may be in sync with the dealer. Surely Maruti will address your issues appropriately, without you having to take to legal recourse. It's not for nothing that the company has such a legendary rep in the market for after sales.

Secondly you are not going to find real good perceptive mechanics who have exposure to such cars in a MASS. They will surely not waste their time there, either they will be lone-ranger independent types or they will run independent ops with the specific intention to fleece the gullible who drops in into their lair. And you are definitely not going to find them next door. You may need to do some research and maybe make a trip south or even try the Hyderabad MASS who are supposed to be more competent in dealing with this car.

Since, there is a good possibility you were duped by the dealer, he seems to be only intent on playing for time and waiting for warranty period to expire to write this off as a successful conjob.

Just talked to general managaer of the dealer. He redirected me to another person who redirected to another person who says we are looking into it. Feels like they know they have messed up and are trying to shift the blame. This means I can't take my car outside ahmedabad becuase if it breaksdown I will not get warranty.
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Old 3rd April 2014, 12:25   #30
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Default re: A lemon, my defective Maruti Kizashi. EDIT: Fed up & SOLD

Is the GM based in Ahmedabad or in Gurgaon. Please contact VP or senior level folks directly in MSIL Gurgaon.
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