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Old 10th April 2014, 18:22   #16
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
What I will say is there is a noticeable drop in power from my T Jet in extremely hot weather conditions. Very noticeable in bumper traffic. The engine hates it and you feel turbo lag has increased. No concerns when hammering down the highway. The engine responds well.
This power drop is something I have also experienced very frequently in my T-Jet. This is the only concern I have had in my 15,000 km ownership over two years but I don't necessarily see a heat related pattern here. My car would suddenly feel very nimble in extreme heat and sometimes would behave too slow and not eager to rev during cool evenings. this behavior keeps changing depending on the mood of the car.
Earlier I was associating fuel quality with the issue but I have also noticed this with the same tank of fuel. so, the problem cannot be the fuel quality.
Is this an inherent problem with the t-jet engines? Can experts throw some light!
On the other hand, T-jet is such a marvel when she is in her elements.
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Old 10th April 2014, 18:25   #17
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

Its quite possible the engine is going into 'derate' or 'safe' mode to protect itself.

You can probably verify this with an OBD scanner
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Old 11th April 2014, 09:39   #18
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by chohan View Post
Is this an inherent problem with the t-jet engines?
It is not a inherent problem. I attribute the air intake plumping as a possible cause. It is poor in routing. It ends right behind and below the headlamp assembly. I don't know how much air manages to reach there when the car is not moving much and whatever will be circulating around that region will be hot air. This can't be good.

You will notice that if you are moving on a highway, in the same temperatures, the problem vanishes.
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Old 11th April 2014, 11:31   #19
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by ahmad.007 View Post
I think I would have to stop you just there. Honda is good for what it is, the ivtecs are gems wrapped in technology. The top end is undeniably the best. But, turbo charged engines have a distinct feel to them, be it petrol or diesel. The torque is the main power generating variable of an engine, and power is just a function of torque (torque*rpm). Turbo charged engines give significantly you more torque (hence power) in the mid range which no naturally aspirated engine will deliver. While the ivtecs need to be revved to perform, the turbos provide effortless power as majority of the people don't like to hover near the redline all the time due to economy and NVH constraints.
And no Honda has not made a mockery of turbos, they are still trying to get their pathetic low end torque right.
Drive the new iVtech manual city. The low end torque issue is fixed.
Nothing matches the linear power delivery of nice NA engine.
Though i admit i have enjoyed the turbo boost of certain engines.
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Old 12th April 2014, 00:41   #20
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Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
Drive the new iVtech manual city. The low end torque issue is fixed.
Nothing matches the linear power delivery of nice NA engine.
Though i admit i have enjoyed the turbo boost of certain engines.
Agreed, I drove an accord 2.4 ivtec a few months back but could not exploit it inside the city as reaching top end was not easy besides 1st and 2nd gear. The real fun of the ivtec is on the expressway. I am yet to drive the new city ivtec, although I have extensively driven the new fluidic Elantra petrol (NA 1.8 150PS) and I quite liked it. Smooth refined linear motor with good mid and top end. I feel the ivtec should be a little more enthusiastic than that. But all this aside, the Cruze which I once got to drive (150ps version), got to say the elantra although similarly powerful felt nothing in comparison with the American beast in bowtie.
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Old 13th April 2014, 17:52   #21
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by robimahanta View Post
An analogy that comes to mind is that of the film SLR cameras and Digital SLRS. With the advent of DSLR’s all the so-called pro photographers banished it saying film is way better. But over the years digital has triumphed and films SLRs are a dying breed today.
OT but couldn't resist posting this:
I have not read through the posts in this thread in detail, but the above line caught my attention. IMHO F-SLR an D-SLR is definitely not the best analogy to manual vs auto tranny discussion. The early D-SLRs were shunned because they did not have -
1) Enough megapixels for a pro-grade enlargement (we have crossed 20 MP barrier with D-SLRs only in the recent years - a Velvia or Kodachrome was equivalent to 16+ MP in 1990)
2) Dynamic range was no were near the cheapest films - giving rise to HDR technology
3) Horrible flash photographs with the initial D-SLRs. All manufacturers later remodeled their flash technology - for Nikon the shift was from TTL to D-TTL and more recently to i-TTL.

It took years for the technology to develop and come to par with film. Only then Pros started shifting. But in the stick vs auto tranny comparison we are already years into development of extremely efficient autos. In India it is now the mindset that needs to change. Autos with dual/multi clutch setups can compete and at time produce better results. India will continue asking the question - "Kitni deti hai?" and the auto trannys need to answer that.
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Old 13th April 2014, 20:07   #22
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

I haven't driven the EcoBoost or the T-Jet but I do own the Vento TSI and I have a few observations after a month of ownership:
# I don't know if it's a direct injection thing but when you first crank the engine it has an almost diesel-like gruff clatter, which settles down very quickly.
# I have owned manuals, torque converter ATs and now a DSG. Although a manual still gives ultimate involvement and control, a DSG is the next best thing.
# The TSIs engine/transmission combo is fantastic for FE. The two tanks that I have filled so far have given me an average of 15kmpl (in the city with AC on most of the time) with the proviso that the vehicle is still under the run-in period so I haven't ripped it in sports mode.
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Old 14th April 2014, 14:18   #23
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

Interesting discussion. Thought of putting up a quick comparison.
Heart goes for the Italian though !
Attached Thumbnails
VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet-tsi-vs-tjet-vs-ecoboost.jpg  

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Old 16th April 2014, 13:17   #24
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
I don't know if it's a direct injection thing but when you first crank the engine it has an almost diesel-like gruff clatter which settles down very quickly.
Observed the same for the T Jet. This is not a direct injection engine though. Direct Injection is a way of fuel delivery. The noises we hear are probably cold tappets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
a DSG is the next best thing.
To me, this is the best thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjab View Post
Interesting discussion. Thought of putting up a quick comparison.
Heart goes for the Italian though !
I won't bring in the Polo for in gear acceleration numbers. Quite clearly, its kicking down gears. I will say that it can still be the fastest even if the other two cars did a kick down.

If I am not mistaken, Fiat claims 196kmph top speed for the T Jet.
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Old 16th April 2014, 13:47   #25
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by arjab View Post
Interesting discussion. Thought of putting up a quick comparison.
Heart goes for the Italian though !
Wow, the power output numbers for the Ecosport are simply great when compared to the other two. I wonder how Ford managed such outstanding figures from their A4 sized engine? Is it due to higher injection pressures or due to the turbocharger running at higher speed?

I also remember that this unit employs an FGT. Wonder what bump in power and Torque would be there if it were to emply a VGT.
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Old 16th April 2014, 14:03   #26
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by racer_ash View Post
Wow, the power output numbers for the Ecosport are simply great when compared to the other two. I wonder how Ford managed such outstanding figures from their A4 sized engine
Yupp, 126bhp is something from such a tiny block. Wish it felt the same too.

A lot of gasoline engines claim a lot on paper, when it comes to the driving experience, its a different ballgame.

The Tsi, T Jet and Ford's previous gen Duratec (Ford Classic) are the only engines that I know of that deliver what they claim on paper.
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Old 16th April 2014, 16:37   #27
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Observed the same for the T Jet. This is not a direct injection engine though. Direct Injection is a way of fuel delivery. The noises we hear are probably cold tappets.
I'm aware it's a fuel injection technology. I was just wondering aloud what is common with diesels to give it that sound. It definitely isn't cold tappets. That is a different sound. Maybe it has to do with the higher compression ratio of a DI engine?
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Old 19th April 2014, 10:47   #28
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
What I will say is there is a noticeable drop in power from my T Jet in extremely hot weather conditions. Very noticeable in bumper traffic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantis0965 View Post
I agree with you completely on this front because even in my TSi I can feel the difference in the way it drives in similar traffic conditions during early mornings and during afternoon times.
1. I've felt this in many petrol engines (e.g. Civic's low end torque is even weaker on a scorching hot day).

2. The problem is compounded in turbo-petrols.

3. Not so noticeable in diesels, whether n/a like my Jeep or turbo like my Sunny.

Hot air sucks for engines. Cool + Denser air =

Related Thread (Do cars drive smoother at nights??). If you wish to continue the discussion, please do so on this related thread.
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Old 19th August 2014, 12:46   #29
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

Possibly offtopic, but a question that has been troubling me for a few days: Are turbocharged petrol engines more difficult to design, build or maintain when compared to their diesel counterparts?

I mean, why don't we see more turbo petrol hatches: a turbo petrol would be a great solution while staying within the 1.2L limit for excise benefits. Say, wouldn't it be awesome to have an option of buying a turbocharged 1.2L Swift?
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Old 19th August 2014, 13:06   #30
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

Are Turbo Petrols preferred by the Indian enthusiasts compared to NA petrols? I still hear a lot of NA Petrol owners trying to shun Turbocharged cars due to the turbo lag.
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