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Old 19th August 2014, 13:08   #31
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by Su-47 View Post
Possibly offtopic, but a question that has been troubling me for a few days: Are turbocharged petrol engines more difficult to design, build or maintain when compared to their diesel counterparts?

I mean, why don't we see more turbo petrol hatches: a turbo petrol would be a great solution while staying within the 1.2L limit for excise benefits. Say, wouldn't it be awesome to have an option of buying a turbocharged 1.2L Swift?
I think it is more about manufacturing cost and the resultant expense and limited demand for petrol.
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Old 19th August 2014, 13:45   #32
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by Su-47 View Post
Are turbocharged petrol engines more difficult to design, build or maintain when compared to their diesel counterparts?
No.

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Originally Posted by Su-47 View Post
wouldn't it be awesome to have an option of buying a turbocharged 1.2L Swift?
Yupp. I too would like to see this but not if the outcome is going to be like what Tata have done with the Revotron. I am sure Suzuki have explored this option quite a bit and then decided that for the mass market, a naturally aspirated engine will do.

I'd be interested to know if the idea of buying a VW GT Tsi is more for the engine or ease of driving.

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Originally Posted by Pedaltothefloor View Post
Are Turbo Petrols preferred by the Indian enthusiasts compared to NA petrols?
I don't think there is any such type of petrol engine we prefer. I know we love diesels for the incredible power, economy and the benefit of lower fuel cost as of now.

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Originally Posted by Pedaltothefloor View Post
I still hear a lot of NA Petrol owners trying to shun Turbocharged cars due to the turbo lag.
What NA petrol engine exists today that puts a big smile on your face? There are four turbo petrol motors available in the 10lac range of cars. Out of which only two of them excite. The only NA petrol engine that excites is the old Ford 1.6 duratec. Everything else feels watered down in their tune. Between the 3 effective options I have, I'd pick one of those turbo's.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 19th August 2014 at 13:48.
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Old 19th August 2014, 13:46   #33
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I think it is .....and limited demand for petrol.
I thought petrol engines were making a comeback of late with demand for diesel mills waning. Or was your comment in the context of turbo petrols?
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Old 19th August 2014, 13:56   #34
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by Rakkum13 View Post
I thought petrol engines were making a comeback of late with demand for diesel mills waning. Or was your comment in the context of turbo petrols?
In context of turbo petrols only. They will be as expensive to build as the turbo diesels and yet have to be priced much lower than their diesel counterparts.
Petrol is making a comeback for sure but that is because the price difference between diesel and petrol is not much now and petrol cars are priced considerably cheaper when compared to their diesel counterparts. Price them the same and see what happens. Case in point - Ford Ecosport EcoBoost
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Old 19th August 2014, 14:00   #35
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by Pedaltothefloor View Post
Are Turbo Petrols preferred by the Indian enthusiasts compared to NA petrols? I still hear a lot of NA Petrol owners trying to shun Turbocharged cars due to the turbo lag.
I don't know about others , but after driving a turbo petrol for the past three years, I find myself missing the turbo kick very badly in NA petrols.

Just recently a Kizashi owner contacted me through the forum to talk about my experience with the Laura TSI. He used to drive a T-jet before he bought the Kizashi. He was missing the turbo kick of the T-Jet so much that he either wanted to sell off his year old Kizashi and buy the Octavia 1.8 TSI or retrofit a turbo on the Kizashi. We did a back to back drive, my Laura TSI followed by his Kizashi. While driving the Kizashi, I realised how much I had gotten used to the turbo kicking in from 1800 rpm onwards. There was absolutely no urgency as the revs built up on the Kizashi, whereas in my TSI, the car would just take off once it into the turbo zone.

I don't think it is possible for me to go back to regular 2.0 ~ 2.4L NA petrols after owning a 1.8 TSI engined car. In fact the 1.8 TSi engine is such a gem, that just about any thing within even twice the price range feels like a downgrade.
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Old 19th August 2014, 14:15   #36
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post

I don't think there is any such type of petrol engine we prefer. I know we love diesels for the incredible power, economy and the benefit of lower fuel cost as of now.

What NA petrol engine exists today that puts a big smile on your face? There are four turbo petrol motors available in the 10lac range of cars. Out of which only two of them excite. The only NA petrol engine that excites is the old Ford 1.6 duratec. Everything else feels watered down in their tune. Between the 3 effective options I have, I'd pick one of those turbo's.
This thread is about Turbo Petrols so not sure why are you talking about Diesels. I drive a Turbo Diesel and planning to upgrade to a Turbo Petrol (Punto MJD to Linea T-Jet) so I am no fan of NA petrols. But then why are Honda City owners so crazy about the Vtec?
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Old 19th August 2014, 14:52   #37
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by Pedaltothefloor View Post
This thread is about Turbo Petrols so not sure why are you talking about Diesels.
Felt there was no harm in a mention.

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I drive a Turbo Diesel and planning to upgrade to a Turbo Petrol so I am no fan of NA petrols.
What NA petrol have you driven so far to rule out NA motors?

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But then why are Honda City owners so crazy about the Vtec?
A high revving petrol has its own charm is all I can say and Honda are aces at this.
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Old 19th August 2014, 15:19   #38
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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What NA petrol have you driven so far to rule out NA motors?
Let's take that question at face value and try to answer it.
Alto, Zen Estillo, Wagon R, Swift, Esteem, Honda City & Verna. In contrast, I drove T-Jet and Vento TSi.
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Old 19th August 2014, 15:21   #39
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by Pedaltothefloor View Post
Are Turbo Petrols preferred by the Indian enthusiasts compared to NA petrols? I still hear a lot of NA Petrol owners trying to shun Turbocharged cars due to the turbo lag.
Quite often, its not the lag in itself thats a problem (unless the manufacturer has specced an overly large turbo), its shoddy gearing that exposes the turbo lag. Case in point - if the 2nd gear in the EcoSport were lower, then it would have allowed for amazing take-offs after speed breakers. Unfortunately, with its current gearing, you either need to downshift to 1st, or stay in 2nd and wait about a second or so for the turbo to spin up. 1st and 3rd are geared very well.

Having said that, there's a "no fuss" aspect to NA cars that allows you to drive them smoothly, without worrying over the tachometer - if you're not at a stalling speed, you're good to go.
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Old 19th August 2014, 16:33   #40
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by Pedaltothefloor View Post
Alto, Zen Estillo, Wagon R, Swift, Esteem, Honda City & Verna. In contrast, I drove T-Jet and Vento TSi.
That is quite a line up.

My pick of engines from that list is the Suzuki 1.3l in the Esteem and Swift (at one point), Honda City, T Jet and VW Tsi.

What I am trying to say is, not all implementations of a turbo petrol are great. The Ecoboost is an achievement by Ford. With a claim of 126bhp, you do expect a lot and that is not the case when you get behind the wheel of an Ecosport. I hope this changes when the engine is put in the Fiesta cause this is one car that can benefit. When it comes to the way power is delivered, the Ecoboost can't touch a T Jet or VW 1.2 Tsi.

Honda's vtec sure has a weak bottom end but get to the other end of the rev band and its right up there with the turbo petrol motors from the segment. To be honest, I worry when I hammer the pedal endless on my T Jet. I know I can't fry the engine but I can fry the turbo. I also the feel the impact of high ambient temperatures is felt more on a turbo engine than NA.

Another superb NA engine is the 1.6 Duratec by Ford. Drive a Ford Classic and tell me what you think.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 19th August 2014 at 16:35.
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Old 2nd September 2014, 17:41   #41
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Default Re: VW's 1.2L TSi vs Ford's 1.0L EcoBoost vs Fiat's 1.4L T-Jet

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
A high revving petrol has its own charm is all I can say and Honda are aces at this.
Having driven a 2007 Mazda RX8 with its 10k rpm redline, a 2006 Honda Civic Si with its 200 hp 2.0L high revving NA engine, and a turbocharged 2000 Audi TT extensively over a period of 8 years, all I can say is that driving the TT was the most effortless and exhilarating experience. I did drive a 2005 BMW M3 with its 333 HP high revving engine for a little bit and fell in love with it. But for a more practical driver especially in Indian driving conditions, a turbocharged engine is much more suitable than a high revving one.

In recent times many major car manufacturers have moved to turbocharging and/or supercharging petrol engines instead of NA high revving engines. For example Audi S4/RS4 used to have NA engines till 2007 but not anymore. Many companies have started investing in R&D for turbocharged Petrol cars such as Ford, Suzuki, BMW (330i was the first mainstream car with twin-turbo petrol back in 2009?), etc. So it seems that turbo petrol is winning the battle with NA petrol these days
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