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Old 19th April 2014, 22:37   #16
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

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Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
My father called me up at work to say the right wheel came off when he took out from the porch yesterday !
He is worried & to an extend furious as to how this would happen to a well maintained car !
Is anybody at fault here - service guys, us, even Maruti or is it to be expected from this level of a vehicle & its old ?
Your father has every right to be furious, as mentioned above, this could have ended very badly !

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Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
The service manager said the wheel came off as the lower arm broke off due to rusting & it has also dislodged the drive shaft.
He has said the whole thing - lower arm plus drive shaft needs to be replaced.
It is advisable to have both lower arms changed.
Both lower arms should cost around 1.5K, labor is another 0.4K, with tax the total should amount to around 2.2K.
Did the driveshaft get caught up on the exhaust after the lower arm broke, or was it placed there for towing purposes ?
If the driveshaft was caught by the exhaust, it most likely will not have to be changed.
If the drive-shaft needs to be changed, it would cost a little bit more, they're around 3.7K each.

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Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
How did it dislodge the drive shaft as it appears to have come off from what it appears to be the inner CV joint ?
The drive-shaft usually does not play a part in locating the wheel, that is left to the lower arm, the strut, & the anti-sway bar.

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The drive-shaft can accommodate some amount of lateral movement - which is what parts 2 & 4 above are for.
I guess when the wheel moved laterally out of its limits, the shaft ( part 8 ) was pulled out of the housing ( part 2 ).

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Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
It does look like the rust might be the culprit but rust alone !?
This car has been regularly serviced by the people at Popular.
Should not they have noticed this & done preventive ?
Yes, looks like the ball-joint end of the lower arm has been corroded away, rest of the arm looks OK though.
Nevertheless, the authorized service center should have caught this !

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
Could it be something else as I have heard that the service guys tend to be very forgetful, read careless !
Last service was more than 6 months ago, so can it be really that ?
Unless the corrosion had set in the intervening period, the fault lies with the service center.
They should have caught this, that said, proving negligence on their part could be tricky.
As advised above, eMail Maruti directly, considering the gravity of the situation & the disaster that was averted, you could get the repair done free of cost.
.

Last edited by im_srini : 19th April 2014 at 22:48.
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Old 19th April 2014, 23:07   #17
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

This is a VERY bad failure and should not happen even for a car lying idle next to a beach for 50 years ! Rusting should not cause such a failure. Especially when it comes to suspension arms.

Spike
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Old 19th April 2014, 23:29   #18
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

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Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
This car has been my father's daily drive since 2009...
...the lower arm broke off due to rusting...
Never heard of such a thing as a suspension arm breaking off due to rust in a 4-5 year-old car - unless the vehicle has been immersed in water upto its hubs and more. Not only is this ridiculous under normal usage, but is a serious safety issue wherein every vehicle fitted with that particular batch of suspension arm must be examined for similar damage.

Please report this incident to Maruti on a priority basis, and demand an explanation. Also have the arm of the opposite side examined carefully, and replaced if similar rust appears to be present. I would demand free replacement of damaged or partially damaged parts (I presume there has been no accidental damage and subsequent welding to repair the suspension earlier) and a thorough check by an R&D team from MSIL to put any doubts to rest.

It is not only about your own safety (you may not realize how close a shave your father has had, but he did), but the safety of dozens (or hundreds) of other vehicle owners whose cars may have components from the same batch installed at factory.
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
...the guarantee for the anti rust coating is only for the coating, not for the parts...

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 19th April 2014 at 23:30.
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Old 20th April 2014, 02:36   #19
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

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Originally Posted by commonman View Post
Unfortunately ,you'll not get an insurance claim for this.
Have you ever met with an accident with this side of the car? If not have the car been kept in a severely water logged location or inundated during some floods ?
The RSM number and email is available with MASS itself.
Yes, I am aware that the wear and tear are not covered under insurance, but was somehow trying to work around it !
The car was never in any accident, nor kept carelessly, infact it has always been under our porch.
RSM is Regional Sales Manager, is it ? Will ask MASS if they can provide these.

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Rust is the problem here and if I may ask didn't the car get an under body treatment done - Anti rust?
The linkage break seems to be major due to rust. Look at the silence pipe on the exhaust end. That is also badly rusted.
Now you have to shoot a mail to Maruti heads in Gurgaon and ask for an explanation..
Anurag.
Anti rust was done at the MASS itself, surely it did not make any difference. What are the emails of the senior Maruti officials cos I kinda feel that might be needed though am not sure if it is the way to go.

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Originally Posted by mpksuhas View Post
I don't think the issue is with rusting in coastal region.....
Your case also may be similar, either due to AC drain water or acid leak from battery.
That is something I need to check with MASS guys, though Ecco and Wagon R are different chassis I believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitewing View Post
Drop in a mail to to contact@maruti.co.in; poc@maruti.co.in . I do not think there is any need to write directly to any higher ups.
My personal experience has been, they will respond... eventually... keep the MASS also in loop, so that they are not flippant next time around when dealing with your vehicle.
Is not that email for generic queries and this being quite serious, so if I use it, would it not take too much time for my email to reach the right eyes ?

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Originally Posted by manjubp View Post
You and your family are blessed.
What I am surprised is how come the rusting didn't get noticed in any of the service? Also as @mpksuhas has pointed out, the lower arm is thick and I don't think it can cut due to rusting...
Also due to cost cutting, the manufactures are not using the good quality materials..
Yes, its very surprising that the service guys never noticed it, as this rusting should have been there for long. I think the cost cutting practice has really plagued the whole automotive industry so much that it tends to trade off the safety even !

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Originally Posted by ad3952n View Post
My friend, In general, the car insurance policy doesn’t cover maintenance for car wear and tear or mechanical breakdowns...
If onwer does not supervise the job then he/she is at the mercy of the A.S.C.
No point to approach higher ups. Get it sorted at the ASC because you also are at fault by not paying attention to your car's condition.
As you plan to visit the ASC, go there and get a brief of the required replacements and the cost....
AD
Yes, I do know the wear and tear damages are not covered, was kinda thinking of working a way around it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
No point. Anti rust is not done to the mechanical bits. Only to the body.
When I asked the TASC about the rust, they said the guarantee for the anti rust coating is only for the coating, not for the parts that it is supposed to protect.
This is very unfortunate and funny to know !
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Old 20th April 2014, 03:17   #20
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

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Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
Your father has every right to be furious...
It is advisable to have both lower arms changed.
Did the driveshaft get caught up on the exhaust after the lower arm broke, or was it placed there for towing purposes ?
Nevertheless, the authorized service center should have caught this !
Unless the corrosion had set in the intervening period, the fault lies with the service center.
They should have caught this, that said, proving negligence on their part could be tricky.
As advised above, eMail Maruti directly, considering the gravity of the situation & the disaster that was averted, you could get the repair done free of cost.
.
The right half drive shaft - would it not be enough for the replacement and fix up of this mess ?
Yes, I really feel that the service guys should have caught this during their check and maintainance.
What is the email to get a fast and definite response from Maruti if any would actually happen ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
This is a VERY bad failure and should not happen even for a car lying idle next to a beach for 50 years ! Rusting should not cause such a failure. Especially when it comes to suspension arms.
Spike
Yes, I sort of agree with you and wondering what else might have caused this.

Anyone has any idea ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Never heard of such a thing as a suspension arm breaking off due to rust in a 4-5 year-old car...
Please report this incident to Maruti on a priority basis, and demand an explanation. Also have the arm of the opposite side examined carefully...
I would demand free replacement of damaged or partially damaged parts...
........but the safety of dozens (or hundreds) of other vehicle owners whose cars may have components from the same batch installed at factory.
Definitely going to report this to Maruti seeing all of your replies, hopefully they will understand the issue and perhaps deal with the MASS and do something about it. Am not sure if this issue is present with all the cars, as if it had been, there might have been other reports. I searched, but did not see any similar reports.

Just attaching the left tyre setup, this does not show much rust, but now when I look carefully, there are some.. Name:  IMG_3743.JPG
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Old 20th April 2014, 09:28   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
The right half drive shaft - would it not be enough for the replacement and fix up of this mess ?
IMO, replace parts affected and drive shafts and change it off on both sides so that you have a peace of mind and can drive around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
Yes, I really feel that the service guys should have caught this during their check and maintainance.
Negligent and casual attitude is what I say that MASS has. Change the MASS, ASAP. They just wash and clean the car and say the servicing is done. The 'real servicing' is hardly done until pressure is put from the customer side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
What is the email to get a fast and definite response from Maruti if any would actually happen ?
http://www.marutisuzuki.com/contactus.aspx

Fill in this form too.

contact@maruti.co.in

Send an email to the above address they do address the issue fast.

I have been using these two ways to contact Maruti and also get my issues solved. Though nothing related to my car but a few manuals that I needed which I was not being issued by the spares dealer. One mail solved the issue within 24 hours.

All the best and keep us posted.

Anurag.
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Old 20th April 2014, 09:56   #22
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Lower Arm failure is very bad news.

IMHO the CV joint should not be a problem and can be just re-assembled/re-inserted in housing and run.

How old is the vehicle? How many kilometers on odo? From pictures it seems that vehicle is not too old and the over all appearance of vehicle does not warrant rusting per se the cause. Also rusting of other parts is not visible. Then why did this rust so badly?

The breakage is around the anti-roll bar bush circle of the arm and not the ball joint. As far as I can remember this area is double walled (see detail of broken edge in third picture)

Then? Was there some accidental damage (rocks / side wall / ...) on the arm? The "tear" shows some sort of old shear damage though I cannot be sure.

Or? Age plus badly manufactured part?

This does call for raising the issue with manufacturer as suggested by many others.
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Old 21st April 2014, 10:03   #23
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

That is some serious corrosion damage, please do get the other side also checked and parts if need be. The lower arm gave away leading to force on the CV and it popped out. Really unfortunate freak incident. But good that it happened at slow speeds.
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Old 21st April 2014, 10:18   #24
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

This is extremely wierd and serious at the same time. I really do wonder about the quality of parts these days. Corrosion of this extent can really cause a lot more problems that what your car experienced so far. Thank god it happened at slow speeds. Do get the undercarriage inspected completely and replace other parts if necessary. That really is some serious rusting.

Greenhorn, lol. So antirust coating warranty is only for the coating itself? How long will they try fooling customers... I'd rather get the underside painted with cheap nailpolish .

Last edited by Arch-Angel : 21st April 2014 at 10:19.
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Old 21st April 2014, 20:43   #25
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Considering you live near the Sea (Cochin) rusting is possible without going noticed. It is very fortunate that such a mishap didn't take place when the car was in motion, you should thank your lucky stars. But I think Maruti is at fault, as it is something that is noticeable when an underbody wash is performed.
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Old 21st April 2014, 22:13   #26
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

This is shocking. There is no way that rust was the root cause of this matter. And yes, I am taking into mind the coastal conditions. Moreover, the other side seems relatively unaffected by rust.
Needs to be explored further.

There could be an inherent defect in the material of construction itself, causing a development of micro cracks that over a period of time allowed corrosion. And this is obviously not corrosion limited to the surface, it has affected the metal part completely. It is surprising why a certain section of the metal decided to give away (and break). This is why I suspect a localized defect in that region (which broke).


If elevated to higher ups at Maruti, I'd expect them to see the gravity of the situation.

Importantly, I'm glad no one got hurt.
Most importantly, this could be a failure at the QC section of whichever OEM makes this for MSIL.

Sam

P.S. Anti rust coating would not have helped, as already pointed by other members. It is not applied on any moving parts. Basically, it's a sham.

Last edited by samarth.bhatia : 21st April 2014 at 22:14.
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Old 22nd April 2014, 02:50   #27
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

I'm beginning to think Lower arm failure is not that rare. First the duster, then this, and the other day, I watched the arm of an old zen break down right in front of my very eyes. The car was negotiating a sharp turn when the arm on the outer side of the turn broke off. Being a narrow lane, the zen had to be pushed off the road
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Old 22nd April 2014, 23:40   #28
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Really shocking! And of-course an eye-opener to all of us too. This incident reminds us that however well-serviced the car is, one should always make it a point to inspect the engine-bay and underbody every once in a while to check for such corrosions and damages.

And this also proves how useless it is to get the anti-rust tratment done from the MASS. I think it is always better to get it done from outside MASS.Something like 3M would be fine.Can't be sure about the quantity & quality of anti-rust paint used by MASS.

I am not surprised that the MASS guys did not notice the rusted lower arm even while doing wheel alignment. Fact is that some Authorized Service Stations do not do any wheel alignment.They simply rotate the tyres and just charge you for wheel balancing and alignment.It is always better to get the wheel balanced/aligned at some reputed tyre shop with computerized alignment machine.They are experts and more fit for this job than the MASS guys.

Do consult someone with sound knowledge in legal proceedings to know the possibilities of holding Maruti & the Service centre responsible for this negligence.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 03:50   #29
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Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
IMO, replace parts affected and drive shafts ..
Negligent and casual attitude is what I say that MASS has ..
http://www.marutisuzuki.com/contactus.aspx
Fill in this form too.
contact@maruti.co.in
The lower and possibly the drive shaft will be replaced. Going to contact them via this email and form, but I knew these and was looking for something more specific than the generic. The MASS guys actually agreed that it was their fault not to spot this issue early on and warn us/change it, but they cannot take anything further, we will have to bear to cost of everything and they might probably omit the labour charge. Am not sure if I am satisfied, though have not asked Dad to say anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudev View Post
Lower Arm failure is very bad news.
IMHO the CV joint should not be a problem and can be just re-assembled/re-inserted in housing and run.
How old is the vehicle?
Then why did this rust so badly?
As far as I can remember this area is double walled (see detail of broken edge in third picture)
Was there some accidental damage (rocks / side wall / ...) on the arm?
Or? Age plus badly manufactured part?
This does call for raising the issue with manufacturer as suggested by many others.
I was kinda thinking the same and change only the lower arms and use the old drive shaft if there its verified that nothing is wrong with it even if it came out. Am worried only about the refit as I understand this calls for very precise job ?
Well the car has gone through some rough roads in its lifetime and might have fallen into potholes as well, but am not sure if that would be enough to break the lower arm of a vehicle.
Will email Maruti after contacting the RSM here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samarth.bhatia View Post
This is shocking. There is no way that rust was the root cause of this matter.
Needs to be explored further.
There could be an inherent defect in the material of construction itself........ This is why I suspect a localized defect in that region (which broke).
If elevated to higher ups at Maruti, I'd expect them to see the gravity of the situation.
Most importantly, this could be a failure at the QC section of whichever OEM makes this for MSIL.
Sam
Even I have my doubts about this that rust alone can break it. Moreover how did the rust creep up this lower arm that fast. Confused..; but cannot figure out. Would anyone at Maruti be able to or would they even care ?

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I'm beginning to think Lower arm failure is not that rare. First the duster, then this, and the other day, I watched the arm of an old zen break down right in front of my very eyes.
Well if it isn't, I would prefer it to be rarest of rare and hopefully none.. this is a dangerous situation that a lower arm of a normal road going vehicle can break as easy as this. If this is happening, probably we or the manufactures need to revisit probably their design/material QC/fit and similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinodDevil81 View Post
one should always make it a point to inspect the engine-bay and underbody every once in a while
I am not surprised that the MASS guys did not notice the rusted lower arm even while doing wheel alignment.
Do consult someone with sound knowledge in legal proceedings to know the possibilities of holding Maruti & the Service centre responsible for this negligence.
Agree fully that everyone should inspect their vehicles on their own as it has now been seen from many that we cannot fully trust these service guys. They have this tendency to be careless or forgetful even when this is their job !
I am not sure if it is necessary to take on legal proceedings, or would that even stand in such a case as this ? Would it, what do you think ? I am anyway going to write to Maruti regarding this though.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 08:17   #30
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Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
The MASS guys actually agreed that it was their fault not to spot this issue early on and warn us/change it, but they cannot take anything further, we will have to bear to cost of everything and they might probably omit the labour charge. Am not sure if I am satisfied, though have not asked Dad to say anything.
How is it possible that Maruti accepting the fault and not changing the parts? Is your car under warranty?

You paying for the parts for no fault of yours is daylight robbery. IMO, please don't accept this from Maruti.

Anurag.
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