Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th April 2014, 00:51   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cochin
Posts: 11
Thanked: 6 Times
Default Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Hello Guys !

My first post and its a query, hope you guys would help !

This car has been my father's daily drive since 2009, has worked almost good sans a few niggles which we can expect from a Wagon R. Surprise came, as he called me up at work to say the right wheel came off when he took out from the porch yesterday ! Asked him to take photographs, later he called up Popular Vytilla, where its always serviced, a pvt tow truck came and took it. He called up the service manager and the guy said, the wheel came off as the lower arm broke off due to rusting and it has also dislodged the drive shaft. He has said the whole thing - lower arm plus drive shaft needs to be replaced.

Now I know nothing about cars, so could you guys help me on figuring this out on the photos below...

Name:  IMG_3739.JPG
Views: 9000
Size:  281.9 KB

Name:  IMG_3737.JPG
Views: 9983
Size:  118.4 KB

Name:  IMG_3733.JPG
Views: 11580
Size:  135.6 KB

Name:  IMG_3736.JPG
Views: 9565
Size:  151.1 KB

Name:  IMG_3746.JPG
Views: 9715
Size:  143.5 KB

Now from what I see, the lower arm has broken and wheel has jotted out. How did it dislodge the drive shaft as it appears to have come off from what it appears to be the inner CV joint(last pic) ?

It does look like the rust might be the culprit but rust alone !? This car has been regularly serviced by the people at Popular. Should not they have noticed this and done preventive ? Or could it be something else as I have heard that the service guys tend to be very forgetful read careless ! Last service was more than 6 months ago, so can it be really that ?

Father is worried and to an extend furious as to how this would happen to a well maintained car ! Is anybody at fault here - service guys, us, even Maruti or is it to be expected from this level of a vehicle and its old ?

Thanks
jokuji is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 10:20   #2
BHPian
 
Pratzgh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 73
Thanked: 49 Times
Default re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Unfortunately, Maruti has been known for corrosion over a few years of use. Especially here in Mumbai.

I faced the same issue with my decade old Zen and had to scrap it, as it was too expensive to get the corrosion rectified.

Service stations in India would not point out things that they consider "unnecessary". They will take care of the outer body and the engine, everything else is not so important in their case. You could question the service guys for being careless, but that would only help you reduce some labor charges.

As of the car, try and see if you can claim insurance for the same. As replacing the said part is sort of an expense. In the terms of doing so, you will definitely notice many other parts that need replacement or a treatment.

Wish Maruti comes up with a solution for corrosion. Glad to hear that your dad is safe. See to it that you show the service history and complain with proofs at Maruti. Hope you get a good solution through this. All the best bro.
Pratzgh1 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 12:15   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
ad3952n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Noida (U.P)
Posts: 1,583
Thanked: 1,837 Times
Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Hi mate, The control arms are the link between the frame and basically, the wheel. They move in order to support the weight of the car on the wheels and allow the rest of the suspension to work.

There are two main failure points for control arm i.e The bushing where the control arm attaches to the frame is the first. If these are to go bad (as they do naturally over time) you may experience a harsher ride and after a certain point it will be wearing metal against metal which is not good. It could be a result of over-looking on the part of the service people and to an extent on your part as well because the delay in addressing the prior symptoms has finally led to this mishap.

The second is the ball joint where it attaches to the wheel assembly, usually at a point called the knuckle. As per the design of the suspension the ball joint is generally the first to fail in my view, and after a while it will be wearing metal against metal which will affect not only ride, but steering as well.

If you plan on keeping the car, get it fixed soon. Remember, precise placement of the parts is important to ensure the control arm's reliable performance. Get a anti rust treatment done to avoid any further rusting.

Thanks

AD
ad3952n is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 12:36   #4
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

I'm surprised that a corrosion of this magnitude wasn't detected earlier, either during wheel alignment or during periodic maintenance. This corrosion should've been in the making since atleast an year. Is the car parked close to the coastal area? The part may have been defective to begin with or damaged by a minor hit for the corrosion to set in at that area.

Lower arm should cost around Rs.1500 to 2000 and a new drive shaft is around Rs.2500.

The drive shaft might be salvageable if you go to some good garage, there are people who refurbish CV drive shafts.
Sankar is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 12:57   #5
BHPian
 
whitewing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 125
Thanked: 61 Times
Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Thank your good fortune this did not happen when out on a highway drive!!

On the corroded lower arm:
MASS absolutely has a responsibility in detecting such faults, and it is unacceptable that this has not been brought to your notice.
Try to take this up with Maruti, while this may not help you, at the least this may trigger additional checkpoints in their service protocol.
In any case just dig up earlier service records and Iím pretty sure there would be entries on greasing of ball joint etc. Ask them why they did not notice such severe corrosion.

On the Drive shaft:
It could be that the shaft got yanked out when the arm gave way??

More importantly
a)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad3952n View Post
Get a anti rust treatment done to avoid any further rusting.
b) Make it a practice to peek under the hood, atleast occasionally.
whitewing is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 13:05   #6
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,192
Thanked: 4,253 Times
Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

I would blame MASS (if you have been visiting them for regular service) and as it may sound harsh, but I would blame you too for letting this magnitude of rust formation undetected for long. Always make it a point to personally inspect the underbody either when the car is up on the lift for service or at the underground/ underbody service bay. Critical parts & systems like these should be inspected at regular intervals. Also, the lower arm & few other systems can be inspected by the owner without visiting the service center too by just bending some back.
The good thing is that it did not happen while driving at higher speeds. It would have been catastrophic. There is an example of Renault Duster incident with similar failure.
saket77 is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 14:52   #7
BHPian
 
commonman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 171
Thanked: 132 Times
Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Thank God/Almighty it didn't happen while on a highway,when driving at 40 Kmph.It would have been disastrous. Anyway no one is hurt as no accident happened. Corrosion is possible because of the sea nearby as it happened in Cochin. The drive shaft conked of because of the pull from the tire. If the vehicle is serviced regularly ,Popular services cannot shy away from responsibility.Just check the other lower arm and see how severe is the rust in that too.
commonman is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 15:52   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cochin
Posts: 11
Thanked: 6 Times
Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

To be honest, I have not taken any interest in this car since its always taken care by Dad and I rarely use it, I should have, now I realize my fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pratzgh1 View Post
You could question the service guys for being careless, but that would only help you reduce some labor charges.

As of the car, try and see if you can claim insurance for the same. As replacing the said part is sort of an expense. In the terms of doing so, you will definitely notice many other parts that need replacement or a treatment.

Wish Maruti comes up with a solution for corrosion. Glad to hear that your dad is safe. See to it that you show the service history and complain with proofs at Maruti. Hope you get a good solution through this. All the best bro.
Yep, there have been times when this service center guys have fouled up on some things though nothing major except once with the player HU. The car has been serviced only with them since it has been bought.

I am not sure if the insurance will cover this and even if it did, how much considering how old it is. I am definitely thinking of taking this up with Maruti, should this have happened while on the highway, can't even imagine...


Quote:
Originally Posted by ad3952n View Post
There are two main failure points for control arm i.e The bushing where the control arm attaches to the frame is the first. If these are to go bad (as they do naturally over time) you may experience a harsher ride and after a certain point it will be wearing metal against metal which is not good. It could be a result of over-looking on the part of the service people and to an extent on your part as well because the delay in addressing the prior symptoms has finally led to this mishap.

Get a anti rust treatment done to avoid any further rusting.
Actually I never noticed any difference in the ride or any sounds from the wheels whenever I have sat in the car. So as to what symptoms were there, I never could not feel it, perhaps never bothered to check myself.

AFAIK, I remember Dad saying, he had done the anti rust treatment on the last service or before it. How long does this last and do the service guys actually do it as they should or its just to fleece the car owners ?

I am still not convinced if the drive shaft needs replacement as the service guys say and even why it popped out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
I'm surprised that a corrosion of this magnitude wasn't detected earlier, either during wheel alignment or during periodic maintenance. This corrosion should've been in the making since atleast an year. Is the car parked close to the coastal area? The part may have been defective to begin with or damaged by a minor hit for the corrosion to set in at that area.

Lower arm should cost around Rs.1500 to 2000 and a new drive shaft is around Rs.2500.

The drive shaft might be salvageable if you go to some good garage, there are people who refurbish CV drive shafts.
Even am surprised because recently I remember that the car had been taken for a wheel alignment. Hard luck that even they did not notice it.

Yes, the total cost is estimated at about 5-6k. What I do not understand is why would they need to really replace the drive shaft. The car just got out from the porch when this happened. I feel new lower arm with the existing drive shaft and new boot rubber would only be required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitewing View Post
Thank your good fortune this did not happen when out on a highway drive!!

On the corroded lower arm:
MASS absolutely has a responsibility in detecting such faults, and it is unacceptable that this has not been brought to your notice.
Try to take this up with Maruti, while this may not help you, at the least this may trigger additional checkpoints in their service protocol.
In any case just dig up earlier service records and Iím pretty sure there would be entries on greasing of ball joint etc. Ask them why they did not notice such severe corrosion.

On the Drive shaft:
It could be that the shaft got yanked out when the arm gave way??

More importantly
a)
b) Make it a practice to peek under the hood, atleast occasionally.
Yes, even I feel the MASS should have alerted us regarding this issue. These guys are known to be careless, but something as serious as this should not be tolerated. Dad is furious and worried as the previous day, they had gone to our hometown, we are really fortunate that it did not broke when they were doing speeds on highways.

Anyone has emails of higher ups in Maruti, maybe heading South India or anyone for that matter ? Is Dad's concern really valid, after all, the car has been through all the said periodic services, free/paid religiously. Could not they be held accountable ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
I would blame MASS (if you have been visiting them for regular service) and as it may sound harsh, but I would blame you too for letting this magnitude of rust formation undetected for long. Always make it a point to personally inspect the underbody either when the car is up on the lift for service or at the underground/ underbody service bay. Critical parts & systems like these should be inspected at regular intervals. Also, the lower arm & few other systems can be inspected by the owner without visiting the service center too by just bending some back.
The good thing is that it did not happen while driving at higher speeds. It would have been catastrophic. There is an example of Renault Duster incident with similar failure.
I agree - we should have been alert too on these periodic checkups ourself, but about the MASS, even I wonder how could they be so careless. Infact, the car has been to only this particular MASS since it was bought.


Guys, thank you for you replies.

Now if I am to pursue this, what would be the best way to do this ? I am also thinking of visiting the MASS to see actually what all has been damaged. What should I be looking at as I am not sure as what and where to look and verify. I am not so good in these matters.
jokuji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 17:20   #9
BHPian
 
commonman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 171
Thanked: 132 Times
Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Unfortunately ,you'll not get an insurance claim for this. But yes,you can put the service center people in the soup.Normally anti corrosion treatments are valid for 3 years. (depends upon the company). Have you ever met with an accident with this side of the car? If not have the car been kept in a severely water logged location or inundated during some floods ? Just check these issues before calling up any Senior people. The RSM number and email is available with MASS itself. Anyway immediately check all the struts and condition of under body.(My experience with a 2006 Alto was very bad just because I stored it near the sea. )
commonman is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 17:44   #10
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,370
Thanked: 13,345 Times
Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
Hello Guys !

It does look like the rust might be the culprit but rust alone !? This car has been regularly serviced by the people at Popular. Should not they have noticed this and done preventive ? Or could it be something else as I have heard that the service guys tend to be very forgetful read careless ! Last service was more than 6 months ago, so can it be really that ?
Rust is the problem here and if I may ask didn't the car get an under body treatment done - Anti rust? I guess Maruti should have done as you are in the coastal belt.

The linkage break seems to be major due to rust. Look at the silence pipe on the exhaust end. That is also badly rusted.

Now you have to shoot a mail to Maruti heads in Gurgaon and ask for an explanation and why wasn't the rust issue informed to your dad when the car was given regularly for service at MASS?

You would need to be stern if things don't work your way.

Anurag.
a4anurag is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 18:21   #11
Distinguished - BHPian
 
mpksuhas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: KA03/KL11
Posts: 2,721
Thanked: 3,307 Times
Default

I don't think the issue is with rusting in coastal region. We too have owned Maruti's In similar regions and never faced this issue. Also lower arm is a thick iron block. If the rusting was due to climate, by time lower arm got rusted thinner parts would have fallen apart.
Almost a similar issue happened with my dad's four year old Eeco last weekend. The radiator housing had totally rusted off, luckily it was noticed by us before any serious issue happened. On checking with service centre they claim it is a design flaw in Eeco, as per then the water drain pipe of AC discharges to the radiator housing. There is a small topward edge for the housing which causes water to accumulate there even when AC is switched off, causing the iron plate to rust.
Your case also may be similar, either due to AC drain water or acid leak from battery.
mpksuhas is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 19:01   #12
BHPian
 
whitewing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 125
Thanked: 61 Times
Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
Now if I am to pursue this, what would be the best way to do this ? I am also thinking of visiting the MASS to see actually what all has been damaged. What should I be looking at as I am not sure as what and where to look and verify. I am not so good in these matters.
Drop in a mail to to contact@maruti.co.in; poc@maruti.co.in . I do not think there is any need to write directly to any higher ups.
My personal experience has been, they will respond... eventually... keep the MASS also in loop, so that they are not flippant next time around when dealing with your vehicle.
whitewing is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 19:59   #13
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 409
Thanked: 109 Times
Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

You and your family are blessed. This breaking did not happen when on a high speed drive.
What I am surprised is how come the rusting didn't get noticed in any of the service? Also as @mpksuhas has pointed out, the lower arm is thick and I don't think it can cut due to rusting, before some other parts reflecting the rusting.

Also due to cost cutting, the manufactures are not using the good quality materials and also skipping many protection/safety mechanism like anti rust, cross bars in doors and hatches, etc.,

Anyway it is good that the only damage was to car and purse.
manjubp is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 20:16   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
ad3952n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Noida (U.P)
Posts: 1,583
Thanked: 1,837 Times
Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokuji View Post
I am not sure if the insurance will cover this and even if it did, how much considering how old it is. I am definitely thinking of taking this up with Maruti, should this have happened while on the highway, can't even imagine...
My friend, In general, the car insurance policy doesn’t cover maintenance for car wear and tear or mechanical breakdowns. That’s because those costs are to be expected and insurance is meant to cover the unexpected. However, If your car is still under warranty, then that contract may have some provisions for vehicle maintenance and upkeep.

Here is a small differentiation between Car's wear and tear and Car's damage

Car wear and tear

1) Rust or Paint peeling

2) Ripped upholstery

3) Worn out mechanical parts (like brakes, engine parts, and axles)

4) Electrical Failures

5) General maintenance

Car Damage

1) Windshield damage

2) Collision Dents

3) Vandalism

4) Fire

Quote:
I remember Dad saying, he had done the anti rust treatment on the last service or before it. How long does this last and do the service guys actually do it as they should or its just to fleece the car owners ?
If onwer does not supervise the job then he/she is at the mercy of the A.S.C.

Quote:
Even am surprised because recently I remember that the car had been taken for a wheel alignment. Hard luck that even they did not notice it.
Firstly, Was it taken to a A.S.C or a road side shop? If it was taken to the latter then it's no point blaming them. The alignment process is carried out by placing sensors on the 4 wheels and not under the car.

Quote:
Yes, even I feel the MASS should have alerted us regarding this issue. These guys are known to be careless, but something as serious as this should not be tolerated.
Alerting A.S.C is a good thing. But make yourself alert as well so that no further issues are faced by you or your car.

Quote:
Anyone has emails of higher ups in Maruti, maybe heading South India or anyone for that matter ? Is Dad's concern really valid, after all, the car has been through all the said periodic services, free/paid religiously. Could not they be held accountable ?
No point to approach higher ups. Get it sorted at the ASC because you also are at fault by not paying attention to your car's condition.

Here is your answer
Quote:
I agree - we should have been alert too on these periodic checkups ourself,
Quote:
Now if I am to pursue this, what would be the best way to do this ? I am also thinking of visiting the MASS to see actually what all has been damaged.
As you plan to visit the ASC, go there and get a brief of the required replacements and the cost involved in it. Check with the insurance agent if any help (though not much) can be provided from their end and then leave the car for repair.

Make sure, you devote time in the entire repairing process of the car at least this time.

Thanks

AD

Last edited by ad3952n : 19th April 2014 at 20:18.
ad3952n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2014, 20:34   #15
Senior - BHPian
 
greenhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: TN-14
Posts: 6,838
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default Re: Lower arm broke, wheel came off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ad3952n View Post
Get a anti rust treatment done to avoid any further rusting.
No point. Anti rust is not done to the mechanical bits. Only to the body.

I had it done religiously, and even I had my front subframe rust out. Thankfully, I replaced it because I was warned by both my Tasc and regular workshop.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post3237009
When I asked the TASC about the rust, they said the guarantee for the anti rust coating is only for the coating, not for the parts that it is supposed to protect.


Obviously, I would not be buying anti rust for my next car

Last edited by greenhorn : 19th April 2014 at 20:36.
greenhorn is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Corolla Lower arm replacement needed? hell_raiser Technical Stuff 4 29th April 2011 11:30
Alto's engine oil filter mounting came off! Gansan Technical Stuff 9 26th December 2009 08:49
CEL/MFL Came on and Went off KSM-Vtec Technical Stuff 9 1st August 2008 11:58
GEARSHIFT CAME OFF! Inside forest-At night! CrAzY dRiVeR Street Experiences 46 2nd August 2007 04:08
Funy piece:how a man broke his ferrari in 4min _Crazi4Speed_ Shifting gears 5 29th July 2004 20:59


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 06:42.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks