Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th May 2014, 10:29   #1
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 44
Thanked: 26 Times
Default Air-con works intermittently

Friends

I have a 2010 Honda Jazz. I have used it for 3 summers without too much AC problems. Heck last year I went to Goa in summer in my Jazz and the AC coped ok. But this season, the car seems to have developed a curious AC problem. I would say this is going on for the past month or so.

The problem:

I run close to 20kms one way pretty early in the mornings(temp not too high yet) and another 20k on the way back in the evenings. Recently I have started noticing that the AC stops functioning every now and then. No particular rhythm to it. Sometimes the AC works fine the entire journey and other times the AC seems to just switch off by itself. I say it switches off because for one it blows hot/outside temp air and for another the different smell of fan blow air as opposed air-conditioned air smell. When it goes off like this. I try switching the AC off(on-off switch in the panel does feel hot to touch sometimes) and bring it on in a few sec - few minutes. This usually does the trick. Sometimes I have to do this trick 10-15 times within 10 minutes to get it to work and other times it just works on the first attempt. Very hard to say when the AC will stop working again. But usually many times within 1 hour.

Couple of days back the AC did not come on during an entire 1 hour drive despite several attempts. Yesterday and today again it seems to be working just fine. Also note that the AC efficiency and the strength of air blows when AC works seems just fine. Its just that it stops working occasionally(smell difference and temp difference). Yesterday I took it to an AC mechanic in outer ring road, sarjapur road opposite National Instruments building. Unfortunately when I whent there I could not reproduce the problem despite running the AC for over 20 minutes in hot mid afternoon sun. He was busy with recharging older model cars. When he came, his time was short and since the AC was working, his interest level seemed to quickly wane. He and his assistant open the engine hood and checked at the coolant level. They seemed happy with it. When I explained the symptoms to him he said it could be an over heating problem or could be a "clutch coil" problem. He advised me to take the car to Honda and have it checked. He did not bother pushing re-gassing or any other overhauling service to me, which I found to be a welcome surprise but at the same time was disappointed that the problem was not yet solved.

So what could be the problem here? My Honda Jazz is under 2+2 yrs extended warranty. Am I staring at a bigger problem here? Or is it something as simple as removing some coolant as this thread here seems to suggest:

http://www.fitfreak.net/forums/1st-g...mittent-c.html


How do I frame the issue to Honda? How will they reproduce the problem?

Thanks for your advice and suggestions in advance. Car is 3+ yrs old, under extended warranty. City is Bangalore. Single owner and single driver.
biyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2014, 12:57   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
sumeethaldankar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 2,670
Thanked: 1,018 Times
Default re: Air-con works intermittently

My Civic had same the issue which fixed just yesterday. I am not sure if the problem is same as yours but in the Civic there is a/c related relay in the fuse box which caused the problem.Due to the heat it would stop functioning as a result of which the compressor would not come on.

Verify this in your Jazz.If the cooling is happening at times and at times it doesn't it could be the relay acting up.It costed me 380 bucks to change same at a independant garage.

Good luck
sumeethaldankar is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2014, 13:28   #3
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dhanushs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bathery/BLR
Posts: 3,446
Thanked: 4,054 Times
Default re: Air-con works intermittently

As the AC cools when its working even on hot days, the problem could be:
  • Relay
  • Clutch
Please get both checked.
dhanushs is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2014, 14:15   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
joybhowmik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,313
Thanked: 1,905 Times
Default re: Air-con works intermittently

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Please get both checked.
Intermittent Cooling

1. Ice in the system especially in the orifice tube/expansion valve. -> Evacuate the system thoroughly(using vaccuum pump) and recharge.
2. Faulty low pressure cutout switch -> Replace
3.Faulty compressor clutch -> Check voltage to clutch terminals (if ok)-> check air gap between the drive plate and pulley (if ok/not ok) -> check resistance of clutch field coil (not ok) Replace.
If no power to clutch -> check pressure switch -> if activated -> check electricals ; else;
---------------------------------------------------------------------> if deactivated -> check the pressure on high/low sides.
4.Faulty compressor clutch relay-> Check by bypassing relay altogether. If A/C works replace the relay.
5. Faulty A/C control switch. -> Replace if A/C works by bypassing the switch.
6. Problem in control module and/or temperature sensor -> Get a scan done, and note down error code and its meaning. Take appropriate action

Please see the following thread also:http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...g-what-do.html

Last edited by joybhowmik : 4th May 2014 at 14:18.
joybhowmik is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2014, 15:01   #5
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Khopoli
Posts: 28
Thanked: 19 Times
Default re: Air-con works intermittently

@Biyer:
As very rightly pointed by Dhanshush,it is definitely doesn't seem to be the compressor issue,since when it is working,it cools optimally. I am sure it has got something to do with the relay getting overheated and loosing connectivity or the worn out compressor clutch for loosing its magnetism and inturn the compressor coupling. Moreover Honda's(ZX,VTECVTEC+) are quite notorious for their compressor clutch going bang.
The Honda authorised service center would suggest you complete replacement including the compressor,if your clutch is defective. Kindly visit genuine AC repair workshop in your vicinity. He may be able to source the AC clutch for you at much cheaper rate.

Last edited by moralfibre : 5th May 2014 at 15:48. Reason: Please space out your sentences appropriately.
cotterpin is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2014, 16:28   #6
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 44
Thanked: 26 Times
Default Re: Air-con works intermittently

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
My Civic had same the issue which fixed just yesterday. I am not sure if the problem is same as yours but in the Civic there is a/c related relay in the fuse box which caused the problem.Due to the heat it would stop functioning as a result of which the compressor would not come on.

Verify this in your Jazz.If the cooling is happening at times and at times it doesn't it could be the relay acting up.It costed me 380 bucks to change same at a independant garage.

Good luck

Thanks for your advice. It was indeed the AC relay. I found that my car was still under extended warranty and had sent the car back to Honda with that confidence. Fortunately(or unfortunately) they identified the problem to be with the Relay and not the clutch, compressor or the thermostat. But since relay was an electrical part, I had to pay for the charges. It was 900 bucks or so. The item was made by "Mitsuba".: 7001 4:1 9*20 was inscribed on it. Made in Vietnam. The vehicle was received yesterday and it is performing ok so far. I haven't had the time to test it extensively as I am recovering from a knee surgery earlier this week for a torn meniscus. I took a quick round around my apartment and realized that the AC held up when I tried switching it on and off multiple times. Thanks once again for your accurate diagnosis.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
As the AC cools when its working even on hot days, the problem could be:
  • Relay
  • Clutch
Please get both checked.
Relay, it was...thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
Intermittent Cooling

1. Ice in the system especially in the orifice tube/expansion valve. -> Evacuate the system thoroughly(using vaccuum pump) and recharge.
2. Faulty low pressure cutout switch -> Replace
3.Faulty compressor clutch -> Check voltage to clutch terminals (if ok)-> check air gap between the drive plate and pulley (if ok/not ok) -> check resistance of clutch field coil (not ok) Replace.
If no power to clutch -> check pressure switch -> if activated -> check electricals ; else;
---------------------------------------------------------------------> if deactivated -> check the pressure on high/low sides.
4.Faulty compressor clutch relay-> Check by bypassing relay altogether. If A/C works replace the relay.
5. Faulty A/C control switch. -> Replace if A/C works by bypassing the switch.
6. Problem in control module and/or temperature sensor -> Get a scan done, and note down error code and its meaning. Take appropriate action

Please see the following thread also:http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...g-what-do.html

Thanks for your detailed notes, it helped me understand the AC workings much better. Yes it was 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotterpin View Post
@Biyer:
As very rightly pointed by Dhanshush,it is definitely doesn't seem to be the compressor issue,since when it is working,it cools optimally. I am sure it has got something to do with the relay getting overheated and loosing connectivity or the worn out compressor clutch for loosing its magnetism and inturn the compressor coupling. Moreover Honda's(ZX,VTECVTEC+) are quite notorious for their compressor clutch going bang.
The Honda authorised service center would suggest you complete replacement including the compressor,if your clutch is defective. Kindly visit genuine AC repair workshop in your vicinity. He may be able to source the AC clutch for you at much cheaper rate.
Honda did not act up this time. They dealt with it ok and sent the car back immediately. I was mentally prepared for them to play drama with parts etc. So I had planned the car to be sent for repair when I checked in for my knee surgery. To my surprise the car was ready and back home by the time I returned from surgery!
biyer is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th September 2014, 23:40   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
thoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kerala
Posts: 1,750
Thanked: 1,073 Times
Default Re: Air-con works intermittently

I would like to know more on these I'm facing with my Micra D:

a) My A/C turns on with a bang (the compressor getting on) and a loud hiss.

b) Whatever the temperature set inside, the compressor comes on for a say 5-10 seconds, switches off for another 10-20 seconds and this cycle repeats forever. Too much intermittent?

c) There is a bit of drag felt against acceleration when the compressor switches on and this is irritating especially when on/off is too intermittent.

d) Very recently, the radiator fan does start even when cold and the engine not started, but the a/c switch is put on. This stops only when I switch off the a/c button.

I know that the fourth point is an issue, but how about the other three?
thoma is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2015, 09:33   #8
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 211
Thanked: 155 Times
Default Re: Air-con works intermittently

I have an issue with the AC in my car. When I switch it 'ON', I get cool air for roughly 6 to 7 minutes and after that the cooling just stops.

If I switch-OFF the AC and keep it in the 'OFF' mode for 6-7 minutes and then if I switch-ON the AC, then it works but again it works only for 6-7 minutes. I am not sure what the issue could be? So, it works for 6-7 minutes and does not work any further unless I switch-OFF the AC and turn it back again after 6-7 minutes.

Any pointers would be useful!

Last edited by searacer932 : 28th October 2015 at 09:34.
searacer932 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2015, 12:23   #9
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 211
Thanked: 155 Times
Default Re: Air-con works intermittently

Quote:
Originally Posted by searacer932 View Post
I have an issue with the AC in my car. When I switch it 'ON', I get cool air for roughly 6 to 7 minutes and after that the cooling just stops.

If I switch-OFF the AC and keep it in the 'OFF' mode for 6-7 minutes and then if I switch-ON the AC, then it works but again it works only for 6-7 minutes. I am not sure what the issue could be? So, it works for 6-7 minutes and does not work any further unless I switch-OFF the AC and turn it back again after 6-7 minutes.

Any pointers would be useful!
After going through some of the articles on the net, I thought that the issue could be either with the compressor relay or the compressor clutch. I had planned to take the vehicle to FNG and before that wanted to take the vehicle for a run as I had not used the vehicle for about a week now. Took the vehicle for a 30KM and the problem did not occur. Both the AC and heater were working fine during that 30KM run. Will take the vehicle for BAU runs this week and let's see what happens.

I am surprised though about the disappearance of the problem. The problem had ocurred during the last 200kms before today when I was returning on the highway to my home.
searacer932 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2015, 13:07   #10
Distinguished - BHPian
 
arunphilip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,727
Thanked: 4,698 Times
Default Re: Air-con works intermittently

Quote:
Originally Posted by searacer932 View Post
When I switch it 'ON', I get cool air for roughly 6 to 7 minutes and after that the cooling just stops. If I switch-OFF the AC and keep it in the 'OFF' mode for 6-7 minutes and then if I switch-ON the AC, then it works but again it works only for 6-7 minutes. I am not sure what the issue could be? So, it works for 6-7 minutes and does not work any further unless I switch-OFF the AC and turn it back again after 6-7 minutes.
When you say 'cooling stops' does the force with which the air comes out also reduce?

If yes, then your symptoms are those of AC evaporator icing. The AC evaporator sits below the dashboard, and it takes in heat from the cabin (by doing so it vaporises the refrigerant). However, there is a thermostat also below the dashboard that is supposed to detect when the cabin has cooled down enough and it cuts the compressor. If this doesn't work correctly, cool refrigerant from the compressor continues to flow through the evaporator, to the point where moisture in the cabin freezes into ice on the evaporator. This results in reduced cooling efficiency (heat transfer works better on the copper pipes of the evaporator, than when those pipes are covered in ice) and in reduced air flow due to the ice.

The 6-7 minute interval seems to be what it takes for your car to melt the ice naturally.

This is not a major problem - get it checked at a reputed AC shop (preferably a dedicated car AC shop, and not an ASC or general purpose FNG). They'll be able to determine where the issue is - whether the thermostat is faulty, or its a wiring (e.g. short) issue.
arunphilip is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2015, 13:50   #11
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 211
Thanked: 155 Times
Default Re: Air-con works intermittently

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
When you say 'cooling stops' does the force with which the air comes out also reduce?
Yes, the force of the air-flow also reduces.

Quote:
This is not a major problem - get it checked at a reputed AC shop (preferably a dedicated car AC shop, and not an ASC or general purpose FNG). They'll be able to determine where the issue is - whether the thermostat is faulty, or its a wiring (e.g. short) issue.
Sure, will do. However I went on a 30KM drive today and the AC/Heater were back to normal. If the problem still persists this week then will take it to the specialised car AC service center.
searacer932 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2016, 10:36   #12
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 211
Thanked: 155 Times
Default Re: Air-con works intermittently

Quote:
Originally Posted by searacer932 View Post
Yes, the force of the air-flow also reduces.



Sure, will do. However I went on a 30KM drive today and the AC/Heater were back to normal. If the problem still persists this week then will take it to the specialised car AC service center.
Sorry, I thought I had updated this thread. The issue got solved automatically on its own without me doing anything! The next day I took the car for a short drive of 10 kms and the AC was perfectly working fine and has been perfectly working fine for the past 5 months. Just curious as to what lead to that intermittent problem!
searacer932 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2016, 01:32   #13
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 197
Thanked: 224 Times
Default Re: Air-con works intermittently

If you don't have enough coolant and the temperature gauge starts rising then the AC may stop working. It happened to me once in my Zen. Immediately topped up the coolant and the problem was solved.
bowser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2017, 13:23   #14
BHPian
 
Blooming Flower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mysore, Kolkata
Posts: 35
Thanked: 213 Times
Default Re: Air-con works intermittently

As bhpian Biyer had intermittent ac cooling problem in his Jazz, of late, I am experiencing a peculiar problem with My Tata Manza Qudrajet AC. The blower blows out air at constant speed without any issue. But strangely no cooling effect comes except normally smelling air when there is high outside temperature (say above 350C) and direct sunlight. But surprisingly, if there is cloudy weather, even with higher temperature (say 390C) the AC cooling effect is perfect. Sometimes, switching on and off the AC works for some while. It's been very difficult to drive in hot sun. As discussed previously, I assume there may be icing problem on evaporator, or faulty relay or compressor clutch problem. But zeroing down to the main culprit by observed symptoms can ease off the repairing works. It may be difficult to replicate the same problem before the service centre/mechanic as the occurrence of the problem is quite sporadic. Please share your valuable opinion about the issue
Blooming Flower is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Intermittently Silent Horn nura Technical Stuff 49 25th September 2017 00:22
Engine "drags" intermittently namit Technical Stuff 48 19th June 2015 18:03
Air Recirculator intermittently switches off in Polo TDI layndrivr Technical Stuff 4 19th May 2011 18:53
Logitech's X Air Mouse Works on the Desk and in the Air !!! cypher Gadgets, Computers & Software 4 10th September 2007 07:47
Help my computer screen goes pink intermittently rahul_intlad Gadgets, Computers & Software 17 17th July 2007 14:01


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:16.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks