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Old 28th May 2014, 15:39   #16
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

I was just having a WhatsApp conversation with a friend a couple of days ago on this very issue and this is what he asked me to refer to. I cannot understand much about the technical details but maybe some of you will probably be able to read and explain to the rest.
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Old 28th May 2014, 19:11   #17
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

To bring to everyone's notice:
ATF
Density =775-840 Kg/M3
Flash Point = 38 deg c, Min
Sulphur =0.25 wt %,Max
Smoke Point =20 mm, Min

SKO (kerosene)
Density =790-820 Kg/M3
Flash Point =35 deg c, Min
Sulphur = 0.25 wt %, Max
Smoke point = 18 mm, Min
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Old 30th May 2014, 14:19   #18
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

Now this is one very off the fly topic.
A few points to consider:
a) How would you procure ATF on a regular basis to feul your car.
b) Your car can run faster if you press the pedal as harder as you mightly can.
c) Dont ATF's contain higher lead content to ruin your car engine.

On a separate note, we have a number of Petrol companies advertising high performance petrols, but do these really make a difference in performance vis a vis speed. I dont think so.

Thanks
Munish
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Old 30th May 2014, 14:51   #19
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick.munish View Post
Now this is one very off the fly topic.
A few points to consider:
a) How would you procure ATF on a regular basis to feul your car.
b) Your car can run faster if you press the pedal as harder as you mightly can.
c) Dont ATF's contain higher lead content to ruin your car engine.

On a separate note, we have a number of Petrol companies advertising high performance petrols, but do these really make a difference in performance vis a vis speed. I dont think so.

Thanks
Munish
a) No idea
b) Yes, you press the accelerator the car goes faster.
c) Yes, see my earlier post

I seriously doubt that high performance makes a real noticeable difference. They have been advertising the same in Europe for well over a decade, but I dont think that unless you do an extremely well controled test, you will find a noticable difference. Some of these high performance petrols are also to cause less carbon built up of your engine. Again, very difficult to test in ordaniray circumstances.

Jeroen
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Old 1st June 2014, 16:30   #20
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
I used to have an old Mercedes W123 diesel. I could just about chuck anything in the tank, from regular diesel, to oil, to cooking oil, paraffin, heating oil whatever. It would just run with no problems.
Very interesting! Do you think that it will be a good idea if I try cooking oil in my Thar Di, considering that it is a non ECU diesel engine and I have the EGR valve blanked and the CatCon byepassed?
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Old 2nd June 2014, 00:36   #21
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
I seriously doubt that high performance makes a real noticeable difference. They have been advertising the same in Europe for well over a decade, but I dont think that unless you do an extremely well controled test, you will find a noticable difference. Some of these high performance petrols are also to cause less carbon built up of your engine.
Infact, these so-called high performance fuels which we get alongside the normal petrol and diesel (eg. Speed, Power etc.) make next to zero increase in the car's performance if we talk of regular cars.

If I trust my memory then Fifth Gear had done a test to see the difference in performance between high-octane petrol and normal one in a normal car (was a hatchback) and they found no difference in the performance whatsoever.

I have also read somewhere that prolonged use of such high performance fuels is detrimental to the engine.

But on the other hand, the performance difference between these fuels is noticeable in high performance cars; the likes of Ferrari, Lambo's etc.

-Bhargav
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Old 2nd June 2014, 07:33   #22
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

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I have also read somewhere that prolonged use of such high performance fuels is detrimental to the engine.
I seriously doubt that too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octane_Power View Post
But on the other hand, the performance difference between these fuels is noticeable in high performance cars; the likes of Ferrari, Lambo's etc.
Why would that be?

Jeroen
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Old 2nd June 2014, 09:38   #23
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

I will say 100RON petrol yes, and ATF no. The former is used for all reciprocating engines (used in smaller aircraft) and the latter for all turbines. ATF is nothing different from high quality K-oil or paraffin, with extensive QC.
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Old 2nd June 2014, 11:13   #24
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I will say 100RON petrol yes, and ATF no. The former is used for all reciprocating engines (used in smaller aircraft) and the latter for all turbines. ATF is nothing different from high quality K-oil or paraffin, with extensive QC.
Again, most aviantion fuel for planes with reciprocating engines contain lead. So yes, it will run initially, but it will definitely ruin your day and your wallet if your car has a catalytic convertor and or lamba (O2) sensors.

You also need to to brush up on your knowledge of what fuel is being used by small aircraft reciprocating engines. In Europe (and to some extent in the USA) more and more diesel engines are being introduced in small and light aircraft. The reason is very simple, overcome the (environmental and legistative) problems surrounding the continuous use of aviation fuels containing lead.

Small plane pilots (such as myself) or at least that have flown in the states will be familiar with AVgas (Aviation gasoline) and MOgas (Motor gasoline). Most small planes with sparik reciprocating engines will run on AVgas and the most common variant is the so called 100LL (LL stands for Low Lead).

Some small aircraft, depending on their engine and certification can run on MOgas. It's usually cheaper than AVgas, but it is not as widely available on airfields as AVgas.

Here some more detailled informatino:

http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/1872...l?redirected=1

As you can see from the article (some) planes can run on normal car fuel!
But as the article points out, the reverse isn't that obvious and many factors need to be taken into consideration.

Jeroen


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Old 2nd June 2014, 12:25   #25
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

A known one of mine, who works for IAF has been fueling his Kawasaki Bajaj, the 100 cc, first bike of the venture since he got it, on the aviation fuel.
He claims that pickup is better, and when he gets it serviced, the carburetor doesn't have any carbon in it. He assumes that this way, his bike remains as good as new.
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Old 2nd June 2014, 14:18   #26
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

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He claims that pickup is better
I assume he means he picks it up at no cost. Unless the Indian Air Force has opened a fuel station and starts charging?

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Old 3rd June 2014, 12:55   #27
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
I assume he means he picks it up at no cost. Unless the Indian Air Force has opened a fuel station and starts charging?

Jeroen
Hey Jeroen, the right word for this would be that he "steal". I am no expert, but aviation fuel might have higher octane/carbon values, so he says the acceleration is better. These malpractices are to be condemned as a responsible citizen of India, as a taxpayer, as a team-bhpian and as a human, this is theft, wrong from every aspect.
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Old 3rd June 2014, 12:57   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octane_Power View Post
Last night, 3 of my friends and I got into an interesting debate.

...

So, my question is : Can a road car run on Aviation Fuel? Yes/No whatever your answer, what is the reason?

Mods : Didn't find a similar thread. Still, please delete/move the thread if you do not find it appropriate/ at appropriate location. Thank You.

-Bhargav
Depends whether its Gasoline or ATF. Given its a jet or a turboprop you saw, it's the latter. If you want an idea, just run the vehicle on kerosene.

At your own risk, I must add.
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Old 3rd June 2014, 13:33   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsashishsharma View Post
Hey Jeroen, the right word for this would be that he "steal". I am no expert, but aviation fuel might have higher octane/carbon values, so he says the acceleration is better. These malpractices are to be condemned as a responsible citizen of India, as a taxpayer, as a team-bhpian and as a human, this is theft, wrong from every aspect.

Contrary to popular belief higher octane does not give better performance. A car engine needs a minimum octane to run efficiently and without damage. increasing the octane number of the fuel is not going to improve the performace.

Jeroen
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Old 3rd June 2014, 14:25   #30
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Default Re: Will a normal car run on Aviation Fuel?

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Contrary to popular belief higher octane does not give better performance. A car engine needs a minimum octane to run efficiently and without damage. increasing the octane number of the fuel is not going to improve the performace.

Jeroen
Higher octance fuel allows the use of higher compression ratios that are typical with high performance cars. Most high performance engines of the last decade or more have incorporated sensors to detect detonation(knocking). When the ECU senses detonation, it reacts by retarding the ignition timing.

Normal performance cars have engines with compression ratios designed for lower RON fuel. High performance engines have compression ratios designed for higher RON fuel. If the engine detects knocking when you use lower octane fuel, it retards ignition timing and as a consequence, reduces power. Conversely, the ECU advances ignition to the designed optimum timing when no knock is detected. Retarding ignition timing this way is less likely to occur with normal performance engines.

So this is why using high octane fuel in normal cars will not have positive effects whereas there might be a significant positive difference in a high performance car. Simply put, a high performance engine can make use of higher detonation resistance of high octane fuels to produce more power.
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