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Old 9th June 2014, 09:14   #31
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

I agree with others here. This is a serious issue and I would not be comfortable driving around a brand new car with a juggad fix. I would also suggest you to push for a replacement,
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Old 9th June 2014, 12:36   #32
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

I think quite a few mahindra XUV5OO' faced this issue, because mahindra applied some updates to XUV, oct-2013 onwards and one of the updates included was "tighter spot welds" for better structural integrity. Other such instances on XUV's probably went unnoticed and this one is the first one that featured on a public forum.
Anyways, bad luck! One solution (midway between new car and workshop welding) that came up on my mind was replacing the body shell under warranty, if mahindra agrees to it. Otherwise it's legal recourse all the way.
My punto' 4 doors, bonnet and boot lid were diagnosed with rust within 10 months of ownership. Though they were all replaced under warranty, but the fiat characteristic, solid door close thud was gone and some sqeaks crept in. So, no matter what the workshop does, they cannot match factory fit and finish.
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Old 9th June 2014, 13:11   #33
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kk21 View Post
Now They are asking me to allow them either:
1. Cut the pillar, re-weld the broken spot welds, then weld the pillar back and repaint etc. but no assurance that more welds wont come off in the future.

2. Change the entire frame of the car. for this obviously the whole car needs to be taken apart and then re-assembled at the workshop.

What should I do ? I am totally clueless about this.
1. Not an option because the XUV is a monocoque design and the structural strength is therefor inherited by design. You cut any member out of the design, and the integrity is gone.

2. Not another option either. Reassembling a complex car like the XUV in a M&M ASS is most probably just like an one-way ticket to the moon.

Ask for nothing short of a replacement.
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Old 9th June 2014, 13:26   #34
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

all of this reflects poor metallurgy, quality control and testing done by M&M. They should ideally replace the vehicle.
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Old 9th June 2014, 13:34   #35
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

My thoughts on the matter -

Spot welds consist of permanently clamping together strips of metal with extreme heat generated by electricity. It is similar to taking two long strips of metal, and joining them with staples at regular intervals (obviously much stronger, but you get the idea). The problem with this is that all the points where the metal strips are joined have to be secure, if one such point does not join anymore, it applies undue stress on the other joints. Going back to the stapled metal analogy, if there are staples every 2 inches across the metal sheets, and one staple comes off, that means that there is twice the gap (4 inches) between the adjoining staples. Now when these strips move (as the vehicles drives and gets bumped around), there is much more stress on the neighbouring staples, which may fail themselves, which again adds even more stress on the neighbouring staples, and so on until the metal strips separate.

The XUV is a monocoque, which depends completely on the chassis staying together for stability. If enough welds weaken, and the chassis is stressed (bad roads, offroading, etc.), it could very easily collapse. If this collapse were to happen at speed, on the highway, you can imagine the fallout.

At the very least, the entire monocoque should be replaced, but the nature of the wear to the rest of the vehicle (wear with use) could mean that the parts do not perfectly match up with the new monocoque. This will result in many problems, the least of which will be rattles and squeaks.

Replacing a monocoque is not something that can be done competently at a workshop, and probably won't be done well by workshop staff, who will probably be doing it for the first time. It has to go back to the factory to be replaced.

Keeping all of the above in mind, I think you should get the car replaced outright.
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Old 9th June 2014, 13:40   #36
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kk21 View Post
2. Change the entire frame of the car. for this obviously the whole car needs to be taken apart and then re-assembled at the workshop.
What is this "entire frame" in a monocoque car? This option of repair is not very clear yet. In case you mean the floorpan, what does that have to do with A-pillar?

And why does the A-pillar need to removed from the car to repair broken spot welds? Can't that be done while its still on the car? Maybe pictures of the affected area will clarify things.

Although its bad on the manufacturer's part to let a defective vehicle reach a customer, its practically impossible to maintain a zero defect production line. Best solution would be to receive a new vehicle, but then that vehicle would too have rolled off the same assembly line.

I think, if A-pillar is not removed from car, and welding is carried out properly, it should not cause any structural problems.
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Old 9th June 2014, 22:18   #37
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Rightfully, OP should get a new vehicle.

But nobody thinks of what happens to his current vehicle - is it going to get "fixed" and sold to an unsuspecting buyer by Mahindra? There should be a law that such dangerously defective vehicles should be scrapped. Value of usable parts like engine, transmission, doors, etc. can be recovered, like in the case of a total loss declared by insurance companies.
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Old 9th June 2014, 22:54   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTeacher View Post
But nobody thinks of what happens to his current vehicle - is it going to get "fixed" and sold to an unsuspecting buyer by Mahindra?
Good point but as much as I know our conditions this car will be sold to an unsuspecting buyer if M&M agrees to replace the car.

I urge the OP to post the following in case M&M agrees for replacement:

1) Chassis and Engine number

2) Any other details pertaining to the car.

Reason being this community is read by millions so such information will warn all members and guests too.

Anurag.
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Old 9th June 2014, 23:11   #39
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

I dont think M&M will agree for an entire car replacement. They will finally come back and tell that the frame is damaged, so we wil replace the frame. With poor consumer law in india, there is nothing one can do.

I pray the car is replaced but the probablity is miniscule.
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Old 10th June 2014, 10:17   #40
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by black_rider View Post
What is this "entire frame" in a monocoque car? This option of repair is not very clear yet. In case you mean the floorpan, what does that have to do with A-pillar?

And why does the A-pillar need to removed from the car to repair broken spot welds? Can't that be done while its still on the car? Maybe pictures of the affected area will clarify things.
In a monocoque construction, there is no separate chassis onto which the body is mounted. The monocoque itself is stiff enough (at required locations) to mount engine, suspension components directly onto. A large part of this stiffness comes from floorpan which is a very critical item of a monocoque body type.

So when somebody says, replace body shell, it means the body in white or the chassis of a monocoque, fully painted at factory (w/o any fittings except IMO the doors, bonnet, boot). I think the body shell can be ordered without doors, etc too but it's always better to order them together, as paint matching problems can arise if doors are old and frame is new.

The engine, suspension, every other fittings (internal/external) are taken from faulty vehicle and bolted onto new body shell. This is atleast how maruti does it for it's accidental cases, where insurance approves body shell.

A zen diesel in our family got it's body shell replaced under insurance and the new chassis number was replaced by the older vehicle chassis number (cutting/welding the plate), which prevented any RTO/law legalities. The resulting fit and finish(inside) was pretty much okay as it was done by MASS. As the paint was all factory done, so outside finish too was just like new.
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Old 10th June 2014, 11:29   #41
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Hi Friends

I have had a doubt of the same on my car too for a while. I have brought it to the notice of the service center but was brushed aside saying it is nothing serious and from the seat belt, but the sound persists when the seat belts are used by passengers. I have also suggested them that the sound is typical of a weld failure either form the the B pillar or C pillar. It sounds only when the vehicle goes through the rough patch of road. How did you come to know, do you have some pictures.

I would suggest you to go for a reweld of the area and paint as i am skeptical of the service center replacing the entire body shell with all the electrical connections back as they seriously lack quality control measures that of the assembly line.

Last edited by mobike008 : 11th June 2014 at 07:35. Reason: Removed incorrect quote tags
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Old 10th June 2014, 12:13   #42
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

I feel mahindra must take back the car to their factory and do the necessary repair there , as I feel asking for a replacement will involve courts and will be a long and tedious process .
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Old 10th June 2014, 13:48   #43
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Please keep in mind that if the frame is replaced, they most probably will not punch your existing chassis number onto the new frame.
If they do, well and good.
If they dont, the new number will have to be endorsed on the RC. This will hit your resale value as in the used car market, a changed frame is always due to a bad accident.
We went throught this in 2008 when our WagonR frame needed to be replaced.

Cheers!

Last edited by james : 10th June 2014 at 13:49. Reason: typo
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Old 10th June 2014, 14:02   #44
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by james View Post
Please keep in mind that if the frame is replaced, they most probably will not punch your existing chassis number onto the new frame.
If they do, well and good.
If they dont, the new number will have to be endorsed on the RC. This will hit your resale value as in the used car market, a changed frame is always due to a bad accident.
We went throught this in 2008 when our WagonR frame needed to be replaced.

Cheers!
Well, as i said earlier, the new body shell/frame always comes with a unique chassis number. What the workshop guys do is, they cut the portion of chassis where chassis number is inscribed for both chassis, and weld/finish the older plate onto the new chassis.
This way you don't have to get into all this RTO stuff, endorsement etc (as the new chassis bears the older chassis number) and nobody (not even a trained mechanic) can tell, if the car ever met with an accident. Only records with authorised service centre are a getaway. I can tell this from experience.
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Old 10th June 2014, 15:30   #45
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

You bought a New Vehicle from Company's Authorized Showroom.
As soon as you got into trouble, you informed them and followed up duly (Assuming you have the necessary proofs - emails, service appointment/receipts etc).
Their own A.S.S. folks' failure to diagnose the issue so easily simply implies the nature of complicity of this problem (read Manufacturing Defect most probably). That too something as vital as part of Chassis.

IMO, anything less than a replacement from Company would be a compromise! The precision of something assembled/forged by Robots with sub mm accuracy JUST CANNOT BE matched by that of Service Centre folks. Second, M&M needs a lesson for both QA negligence and failure to respond on time. Finally, why should one pay for a New Product and Live with a Repaired one - with some scars on the vehicle and remaining in his Heart? This all without a fault of his own?

I remember XUV of a BHPian from Kolkata broke down due to severe Engine issue and upon insisted, M&M replaced the Engine.

That said, please be rigid on your points, accumulate the documents & proofs, discuss with an Advocate and report the incidence to Consumer's Forum. Not only seek the FULL REPLACEMENT OF THE CAR, but also claim for
loss of conveyance & Mental Peace
expenses on Service Station Trips, Advocate
and even charges incurred on getting the notice printed

This may sound long and clumsy process, but cases in Consumer's Forum are moved fast and every benefit of reasonable doubt goes to Customer. Please keep us updated.

Thanks,
Zinda!
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