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Old 10th June 2014, 15:33   #46
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

As said by few other members none of the two options provided by Mahindra is going to bring the vehicle back to life. Body In White (BIW) is the most crucial part of your vehicle when it comes to vehicles structural rigidity. Doing a massive rework like this at any place outside the factory will not be anywhere close to how a BIW is build in plant on their line and fixtures. A lions share of investment on a new model by all manufactures will be poured into these line fixtures and robots because they know how important a BIW is? Any correction to a trim parts can be relatively easily done outside a plant.
Also stripping and re-welding the body side / A, B & C pillar at a dealer end will lead to improper flush to doors, roof and tail gate. Hence you need to fight to get a replacement or a complete BIW at least. Wish you all luck.

Cheers!

PS: Still I'm wondering how can a weld spots break on a car from automated line, its high time the M&M should investigate the whole lot of cars manufactured during that day / week / month or any other sampling plan which is deemed fit for such a critical issue.
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Old 10th June 2014, 15:43   #47
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Hi KK21,

Please write to Vice President Customer Care as suggested & informed by SDP.

I did the same, when I had a major problem with our XUV.
Please ask what you want. Like ask for Chassis replacement.
Don't suggest how & where it should be done.

Don't worry about Chassis number getting changed, They are minor & one day Job at RTO. System is well established and it happens everyday.

The VP office takes immediate action & would ensure that Best is done for your Car.

Probably you would receive a call from Head Customer Service-NCR Region or Gurgaon region (Not Customer Care) after you write the email.

We are around.

Last edited by Wanderers : 10th June 2014 at 15:45.
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Old 10th June 2014, 15:55   #48
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kk21 View Post
...
Now They are asking me to allow them either:
1. Cut the pillar, re-weld the broken spot welds, then weld the pillar back and repaint etc. but no assurance that more welds wont come off in the future.

2. Change the entire frame of the car. for this obviously the whole car needs to be taken apart and then re-assembled at the workshop.

What should I do ? I am totally clueless about this.
The first option is not good. Cutting the pillar and re-welding it does not give you the rigidity as that of the original frame. A-pillar is one of the stress members. Also, your vehicle value will decrease while selling it. Although the whole frame need to be taken apart, wouldn’t it be better to change the frame of the vehicle under warranty? From your posting, this issue was reported to the Service station within 1 year by you, and this looks like a manufacturing defect. Also keep the reports with you and present it to The Zonal Officer of M&M. I believe, they should come back to you with a proper solution.

Last edited by yogeshnaik : 10th June 2014 at 15:58.
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Old 10th June 2014, 16:10   #49
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by debuda View Post
As I said in my earlier post on this thread, failure of spot welds in a heavy monocoque body is a very serious matter and may warrant recall of the entire batch for inspection. I'd request kk21 to let us know :
  1. How many spot welds have come off?
  2. The exact location of these welds (post a picture if possible).
I'm keenly following this thread like many others.
1. I have not been told how many spot welds have come come off. I could not make it to the workshop again to inspect since I had to travel.

2. The exact location is under the A Pillar on LHS -this is what I am told. No pictures provided.

I will ask M&M about these and get back. A.S.S. in gurgaon have decided to stop taking my calls.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Good point but as much as I know our conditions this car will be sold to an unsuspecting buyer if M&M agrees to replace the car.

I urge the OP to post the following in case M&M agrees for replacement:
1) Chassis and Engine number
2) Any other details pertaining to the car.
Reason being this community is read by millions so such information will warn all members and guests too.

Anurag.
Anurag I am currently in Ladakh for work - dont have access to these details at the moment.

I was supposed to drive my XUV here last week - even last summer that was the plan - but both times the car wasn't up to it. So I took a flight instead. I bought this car with dreams of bringing it to ladakh ever since my work here got confirmed. Now my work will be over in a few months and one of my major motivations for buying a Mahindra SUV remains defeated.

Now my associate here has given me his trusty old innova to drive around- almost 8 years and over 1.1 lac km's old - and not a single major complaint. You cannot tell the car is 8 years old. He had a smile of his face when I told him the xuv wont make it this year too.

Another associate of mine in Ladakh drives a Scorpio - 2005 2.6 Turbo and swears by the toughness of the car. His car is more rickety and rattles a fair bit from inside as compared to the innova but I guess it may also be a reflection of how much care he takes on broken roads. Importantly, no structural or other major problems in so many years of driving around ladakh's roads.
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Old 10th June 2014, 16:15   #50
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
Aah!! The ugly quality control failure on a critical component such as the chassis, raises its head in Mahindra as well. Hope this is an one off case and doesn't go the Tata way.

I'm closely watching Mahindra's progress as I have planned my next car to be a XUV 5oo.

If Mahindra does not replace the car for you with a sincere and profuse apology, my confidence on the brand will be seriously dented. I've decided not to touch Tata cars even with a barge pole for many years to come, I don't want Mahindra to be added to that list.

Hope they are as proactive as they are in recent times and settle the case at the earliest to your satisfaction.
Can you please elaborate on the problems you have faced in the Tata cars?
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Old 10th June 2014, 16:24   #51
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
I dont think M&M will agree for an entire car replacement. They will finally come back and tell that the frame is damaged, so we wil replace the frame. With poor consumer law in india, there is nothing one can do.

I pray the car is replaced but the probablity is miniscule.

Dear Friend,
I agree with Bharath.No indian manufacturer will replace a car after sale for what ever reason.They can give discounts in new purchase,Buy back legally thru their second sale chain,repair in full or parts.


if they cut A pillar , will seem as an accident car, changing the shell will ensure 10% of the component not fitted back by ASC and many electronics not working.

I suggest you sell it and buy a new one.
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Old 10th June 2014, 16:41   #52
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Everyone here seems to be suggesting 'replacement', I am really perplexed why?
This car turned out to be of poor build owing to poor quality practices in place within M&M manufacturing facility. Why should he accept another car which is built abiding to same/similar quality control process?
I opine refund is the way forward.
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Old 10th June 2014, 16:41   #53
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
...I've decided not to touch Tata cars even with a barge pole for many years to come, I don't want Mahindra to be added to that list.

Hope they are as proactive as they are in recent times and settle the case at the earliest to your satisfaction.
Did you come across any such defect in Tata cars? If so, please share with us what issues did you face. This would be a good information for us. I believe the rate of improvement in TATA vehicles is very high in these 5 years. My personal experience is that TATA Motors listens to the customers.

Last edited by yogeshnaik : 10th June 2014 at 16:45.
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Old 10th June 2014, 17:04   #54
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinda View Post

IMO, anything less than a replacement from Company would be a compromise! The precision of something assembled/forged by Robots with sub mm accuracy JUST CANNOT BE matched by that of Service Centre folks. Finally, why should one pay for a New Product and Live with a Repaired one - with some scars on the vehicle and remaining in his Heart? This all without a fault of his own?
These are exactly my my feelings about this whole thing. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinda View Post
That said, please be rigid on your points, accumulate the documents & proofs, discuss with an Advocate and report the incidence to Consumer's Forum. Not only seek the FULL REPLACEMENT OF THE CAR, but also claim for loss of conveyance & Mental Peace expenses on Service Station Trips, Advocate and even charges incurred on getting the notice printed

This may sound long and clumsy process, but cases in Consumer's Forum are moved fast and every benefit of reasonable doubt goes to Customer. Please keep us updated.
Thanks,
Zinda!
Just the cost of hiring a XUV is Rs. 2500 per day. My car has been at the workshop for about 15 days now already. All the expense I am going to incur in ladakh because of my car not being available. People who have been here know how expensive taxi's are. But that's not what I thinking right now mate. I will try to move on if Mahindra agrees to do the right thing here and replace the vehicle. That will show the correct intent on their part and I will be satisfied with that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderers View Post
Hi KK21,

Please write to Vice President Customer Care as suggested & informed by SDP.

I did the same, when I had a major problem with our XUV. Please ask what you want. Like ask for Chassis replacement. Don't suggest how & where it should be done.
I have already initiated this process and I am in touch with both these gentlemen. I have written detailed emails to Mr Sanjoy Gupta and he has so far been appreciative of my concerns and has promised a win-win solution for both of us. Head Customer Service-NCR Region has also gotten in touch with me over telephone and I have tried my best to explain my issues to him as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderers View Post
Don't worry about Chassis number getting changed, They are minor & one day Job at RTO. System is well established and it happens everyday.

We are around.
Chassis number getting changed is not my major worry, but its a worry still. The major worry is the solution suggested by them to "fix" the problem. Changing the frame is not like replacing a part - small or big. It cannot be done right at the workshop. It defeats the whole purpose of a factory built robotically welded car that is correctly put together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaudh2s View Post
My punto' 4 doors, bonnet and boot lid were diagnosed with rust within 10 months of ownership. Though they were all replaced under warranty, but the fiat characteristic, solid door close thud was gone and some sqeaks crept in. So, no matter what the workshop does, they cannot match factory fit and finish.
One of the reasons why I wont accept a workshop re-assembly of my car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaudh2s View Post
I think the body shell can be ordered without doors, etc too but it's always better to order them together, as paint matching problems can arise if doors are old and frame is new.
Doors, Bonnet lid, boot lid, - will all these require to be changed/repainted?


Quote:
Originally Posted by chaudh2s View Post
A zen diesel in our family got it's body shell replaced under insurance and the new chassis number was replaced by the older vehicle chassis number (cutting/welding the plate), which prevented any RTO/law legalities. The resulting fit and finish(inside) was pretty much okay as it was done by MASS. As the paint was all factory done, so outside finish too was just like new.
Finish of the paint is not the issue mate, as you already know, its about other problems that will occur. Not to forget- I didn't put my car through an accident.
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Old 10th June 2014, 17:16   #55
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaudh2s View Post
What the workshop guys do is, they cut the portion of chassis where chassis number is inscribed for both chassis, and weld/finish the older plate onto the new chassis.
Im not sure how they will go about this during warranty claim but when the shell is replaced under insurance, the insurance company usually demands that the new chassis # is endorsed in the RC. As per the RTO, its illegal to swap the chassis numbers between damaged and new shells.
Also, in case of Maruti, the shell comes in without a number. You need to submit some papers to the RTO where it was registered and they will assign you a unique number startng with the RTO number itself- In our case KA19xxxxxxxx.

Cheers!
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Old 10th June 2014, 17:23   #56
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajith View Post
Dear Friend,
I agree with Bharath.No indian manufacturer will replace a car after sale for what ever reason.They can give discounts in new purchase,Buy back legally thru their second sale chain,repair in full or parts.

if they cut A pillar , will seem as an accident car, changing the shell will ensure 10% of the component not fitted back by ASC and many electronics not working.

I suggest you sell it and buy a new one.
In other words, accept on my behalf and all the other consumers out there that we will always be the losers?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thilak29 View Post
Everyone here seems to be suggesting 'replacement', I am really perplexed why?
This car turned out to be of poor build owing to poor quality practices in place within M&M manufacturing facility. Why should he accept another car which is built abiding to same/similar quality control process?
I opine refund is the way forward.
I feel if this problem is a one off case then it would not be fair to ask for a refund. When I turn the radio loud and I cant hear tak-tak anymore, and when the engine is in form, this car is like a dream to drive. So big, so much power and very smooth. Totally kills it on the highway. I am prepared to give the xuv another chance to redeem itself.
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Old 10th June 2014, 18:14   #57
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajith View Post
Dear Friend,
I agree with Bharath.No indian manufacturer will replace a car after sale for what ever reason.They can give discounts in new purchase,Buy back legally thru their second sale chain,repair in full or parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
I dont think M&M will agree for an entire car replacement. They will finally come back and tell that the frame is damaged, so we wil replace the frame. With poor consumer law in india, there is nothing one can do.
I pray the car is replaced but the probablity is miniscule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kk21 View Post
In other words, accept on my behalf and all the other consumers out there that we will always be the losers?
Let me add here that a friend of mine got his WagonR replaced from Maruti due to very bad rusting on the frame all around. The car was under extended warranty and was repaired twice for rusting below fuel lid area. Later rust was found all over the underbody with rusted suspension and engine mounts.

Initially discount on a new purchase was offered but my friend stood his ground. IIRC later the old car was bought off from him and a new car provided by Maruti. Even the road tax and insurance of new car was paid by Maruti.
Heck my friend was cheap enough to strip off the Autocop and music system from the old car as well.
Only cost he incurred was pre payment penalty on the loan of his old car.

Dont give up yet.

cheers
Vishwas

p.s. - The old car was repaired in the service station and sold in open market through a dealer as a non true value vehicle.
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Old 10th June 2014, 18:20   #58
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thilak29 View Post
Everyone here seems to be suggesting 'replacement', I am really perplexed why?
This car turned out to be of poor build owing to poor quality practices in place within M&M manufacturing facility. Why should he accept another car which is built abiding to same/similar quality control process?
I opine refund is the way forward.
Thilak, your point is valid. Here are a couple of other points to ponder upon:

1. Most likely this is a one-off case. So there is no reason to assume that the replacement would also have the same problem.

2. Thinking from a manufacturer's perspective, paying back hard cash v/s offering a replacement, its the later which has lesser financial impact. Also when you take refund, the 'relationship' ends and the manufacturer might care that much less about you. If you ask for a replacement, you will continue to remain a customer, the relationship would continue and there would be better support from the manufacturer. So if the OP insists on a refund, the chances of the matter getting dragged to the court are more.

Last edited by SDP : 10th June 2014 at 18:31.
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Old 10th June 2014, 18:21   #59
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Hi KK21

This is a nightmare situation for anyone who spends a considerable amount of time and money for a vehicle he so wants to take upto Ladakh. Thank god the vehicle never made it to Ladakh in the first place as the company could have easily piled the agony on you without even caring two hoots about it.

With Mr Anand Mahindra, so famously asking the Prime Minister of India to take up the old warhourse Scorpio as his official vehicle, I think he would not be too pleased by the efforts made by his A.S.S. people to ward you of with just a showroom fix.

By the way, I would recommmend you not to go with any of the two options provided upfront and rather ask for a replacement car and along with that a suitable compensation for the agony caused to you.

Hope things take a turn for the better now that this has reached the highest levels within Mahindra.
As far as I can see, Mahindra would be hard done not to provide you a replacement car to battle of the negative publicity they would have received after this.

All the best with your dealings with Mahindra. Hopefully you'll get what is rightly yours.

Cheers
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Old 10th June 2014, 18:46   #60
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

kk21,

I don't know if your XUV is from the initial lot or the Version 2.0 that was launched towards the end of 2013.

The reason I was suggesting a replacement as it's almost impossible to get a refund and if they change your XUV with the newer model, you will get all the improvements done by M&M.

Anther very very crucial point I remember reading when they launched the updated V2.0 XUV last year:

Quote:
But, what has really improved the torsional stiffness of the Mahindra XUV500 is closer spot welds in the body-on-white;
This is from Autocar review of the improved XUV500. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-improved.html (2013 Mahindra XUV500: Now Improved)

This basically means that all along there was some issue with the welding that needed fixing in the newer models.
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