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Old 12th June 2014, 11:26   #76
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Default Re: XUV 500 niggles and their solutions

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Originally Posted by Anoopscv View Post
Haven't received any update form Mr Sanjoy Gupta? I think its 4-5 days now!
What shame..!

I am not sure if sharing this thread on XUV500 FB page will help, but I just did that.

" https://www.facebook.com/MahindraXUV500 "

Also, I don't recall the name of a TV show that helps customers fight with companies in similar cases, but there is definitely one. I know for sure that since they not only broadcast such complaints, but also take them up with high-ups in the companies, significantly presses on the company the need to resolve the matter to customer's satisfaction.

-VIG.
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Old 12th June 2014, 12:13   #77
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

I am in touch with Mr Sanjoy Gupta over email, in fact yesterday evening I emailed him and waiting for a reply from him.
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Old 12th June 2014, 12:21   #78
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Default Re: XUV 500 niggles and their solutions

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Originally Posted by avigster View Post
What shame..!

I am not sure if sharing this thread on XUV500 FB page will help, but I just did that.

" https://www.facebook.com/MahindraXUV500 "

Also, I don't recall the name of a TV show that helps customers fight with companies in similar cases, but there is definitely one. I know for sure that since they not only broadcast such complaints, but also take them up with high-ups in the companies, significantly presses on the company the need to resolve the matter to customer's satisfaction.

-VIG.
Name of show is "Pahredar"
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Old 12th June 2014, 13:21   #79
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Sorry to hear your plight, kk21. Hope your discussions with Mr Sanjoy Gupta makes some headway and you get to a solution that is acceptable to you.

In fact I am in the process of evaluating an XUV 500 W8 (looking at the limited edition Sportz model) as my next car. Going by all the niggles that I am reading here, I am now skeptical if I should go ahead with it.

My experience over 6 years of owning and driving a Civic has been peerless. I get the feeling that I am going to pay 16L and open a big can of worms now...
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Old 12th June 2014, 15:46   #80
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

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Originally Posted by kk21 View Post
I am in touch with Mr Sanjoy Gupta over email, in fact yesterday evening I emailed him and waiting for a reply from him.
Disclaimer: this post is strictly unofficial and im posting this as a fellow automobile enthusiast

I read through the whole thread and as a mahindra engineer, i can tell you from what i have seen regarding the functioning of this company,that if the news of this incident has reached the actual company, they will definitely be having a lot of meetings about it, about issues like how this problem occurred in the first place, how many vehicles could possibly be affected, finding a technically correct solution to your problem, etc etc.
All kinds of departments, like management, R&D, production, quality etc would already be on their toes to address this issue. Mr mahindra & Dr.Goenka are bloody serious about customer satisfaction and quality issues.

Now a lot of people are saying that the vehicle be replaced. Honestly in my opinion, thats too much to ask. The truth is mahindra wouldve have willingly replaced the vehicle just to keep a customer happy. The cost of one single vehicle wouldnt even show in their balance sheets. And customer satisfaction is indeed considered the number one! priority here, as a fellow bhpian saw for himself when his engine was replaced without fuss.

The trouble is if they replaced the vehicle and people found out, that would set a terrible precedent. From what i have personally noticed, us indians have a thing for grabbing the hand when a finger is offered. Soon people would ask for replacement vehicles for the smallest of warranty claims, threatening to defame on public forums like these.
I mean cmon, ive had things like power window switches and a/c motors fail under warranty in my cars(no i dont own any mahindra vehicles as my signature will show) and the door panels and dashboards were removed for repairs. Even in those cases your car isnt the same as before, rattles creep in, fit and finish worsens.

The other thing about taking it back to the factory for repair: Id dont see how that idea even makes sense. The whole work is done by robots there, its not like the vehicle can be put back on the line to re-weld a new panel.
they just dont have the equipment or skill THERE for this kinda Job AFAIK.

Honestly the best idea would be for you to request for an actual, BIW engineer to supervise the repair work at the service center.

About the car not being as strong, well i would say that if a continuous panel was cut inbetween then yes, it would lose strength.If the whole panel was replaced like they do when they repair accident damage then it would still be as strong, although dismantled parts may not go back on well enough depending on the skill of the person doing the repair

A picture of the affected area wouldve been great but i have an idea. If the spot welds in that area arent too close to each other and there is SUFFICIENT space between them, then it would be best to spot weld between the previous spot welds, maybe increase the number of spot welds too, but that should be decided by a BIW engineer. That in my opinion will be the best option. Your car will be as good as new, with no compromise on structural integrity.(of course my opinion is not the final word, a BIW engineers opinion though IS)

I do repeat, this is my(and mine alone) personal and technical opinion as a not so experienced engineer and a long standing Bhpian. This has nothing to do with mahindra's official stand(Heck my age on my profile will tell you that i am not likely to be in a position to be dealing with such serious matters anyway). My association with the company is purely coincidental.

Good luck

Last edited by mycarhasablower : 12th June 2014 at 16:15.
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Old 12th June 2014, 16:39   #81
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

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Originally Posted by kk21 View Post
I am in touch with Mr Sanjoy Gupta over email, in fact yesterday evening I emailed him and waiting for a reply from him.
The proposed repair work is a big no for a car I want to keep. Cut your losses and exit. I would go for some sort of settlement where I get a new car. Either as a replacement (not easy but a good starting point) or as an exchange by paying some cost difference. Be reasonable and if they mistreat you, refuse take the car back from workshop and declare war.

Last edited by androdev : 12th June 2014 at 16:40.
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Old 12th June 2014, 16:43   #82
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

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Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
if the news of this incident has reached the actual company, they will definitely be having a lot of meetings about it, about issues like how this problem occured in the first place, how many vehicles could possibly be affected, finding a technically correct solution to your problem, etc etc.
As a Mahindra customer this is always good to know.

Quote:
Now a lot of people are saying that the vehicle be replaced. Honestly thats too much to ask.
The trouble is if they replaced the vehicle and people found out, that would set a terrible precedent. Soon people would ask for replacement vehicles for the smallest of warranty claims, threatening to defame on public forums like these.
Yes, it may be true, from a company point of view. However for a customer who has spend his / her money it is bit of a raw deal. Also public forums overall is a two way street, it is not that everyone is writing about un-reliable vehicles only. There are many threads which praises about reliability of many models / manufacturers.
Personally I am a big fan of Scropio, mainly due to its MHwak. When I was planning of upgrading the car reason I opted for a Mahindra XUV in-spite of a huge issues thread is since I felt M&M was bit proactive in addressing the issues.
Recalls and upgrades may not be up to the mark what many of us would have wanted, however compared to many manufactures in India M&M is way better. I would not have put my money in a vehicle if I was not sure if any issue crops up what M&M's stance would be.

What I am saying is unless there is a monopoly you can not ignore a customer concern saying it is just your bad luck that you ended up with a vehicle with manufacturing defect.

Quote:
The whole work is done by robots there, its not like the vehicle can be put back on the line to re-weld a new panel.
they just dont have the equipment or skill there for this kinda Job AFAIK.
I guess that was the reason everyone was asking to get the vehicle replaced.

Last edited by mpksuhas : 12th June 2014 at 16:50.
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Old 12th June 2014, 23:11   #83
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

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Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
Honestly the best idea would be for you to request for an actual, BIW engineer to supervise the repair work at the service center.
I totally agree with mycarhasablower. But another thing Mahindra could do is, once the BIW engineer identifies this as a genuine issue by the manufacturer, they could work with the dealer to buy out the car at the current market price for a one year old car of the same model in good condition. Send this to the R&D, they need the actual specimen to do any kind of study, just meeting room is not enough. I believe there is one cases where Tata did this for one of our Bhpians. This is not uncommon in the industry. This is a win win for both 1. Owner do not want to keep the repaired vehicle, peace of mind for him. 2. A new car for the owner 3. Manufacturers R&D/Quality gets a vehicle for analysis. 4. One more vehicle sold by the manufacturer.
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Old 13th June 2014, 00:07   #84
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

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Originally Posted by jeepster_chd View Post
I do not fully agree with you here. The Consumer Protection Act 1986 is there to protect the rights of consumers and I have been once able to use it successfully to protect from what I would call 'extortion' bid made by Reliance Telecom.
.

Yes we do have an so called ""Protection ACT"", Again who does it protect? the car manufactures or the Auto Industry lobbyists?
We have Bhpian Harish who has been fighting with Skoda for over 3 years or so, He has suffered enough for no fault of his where is the help for such people who really need it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
Now a lot of people are saying that the vehicle be replaced. Honestly in my opinion, thats too much to ask. The truth is mahindra wouldve have willingly replaced the vehicle just to keep a customer happy. The cost of one single vehicle wouldnt even show in their balance sheets. And customer satisfaction is indeed considered the number one! priority here, as a fellow bhpian saw for himself when his engine was replaced without fuss.

The trouble is if they replaced the vehicle and people found out, that would set a terrible precedent. Good luck
A Spot Weld Failure is a very-very serious issue.
Its not like a compressor, or a power switch failing.

In the ford figo we drive we have had the rear torsion beam replaced, rear shock absorber replaced, Brakes, power steering hoses, headlight switch's, and several other TSB's done to the car (under warranty Obviously). But none of these endangered the lives of the driver, passengers.


A Spot weld failure weakens the structural integrity of the car. In case of an crash or Accident (God forbid) the cars structural integrity could be compromised.

I don't know if you are aware of this but in the US the Nissan Leaf had a similar issue.
Some cars which had spot weld failures were replaced,

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news...in-a-few-cases

I quote
Quote:
. If the welds are there, then the vehicle is released to the customer with no further action required.

If the welds are missing, the situation becomes far more serious. According to the official recall notice from the NHTSA, if any welds are missing, the vehicle is to be replaced.
Mahindra should handle this carefully.
I don't buy your argument that if this persons get a replacement then everyone else will start asking for one, even for small issues that's just some lame excuses.

What if Nissan in the US felt the same way?

on a small Electric car like a Nissan leaf, if a car is found to be missing a weld it would be replaced so why cant the owner of a 2 Ton XUV get a replacement for his car which has the same problem?

I am sure Mahindra would do the same if the this car or owner was in the US,

Last edited by Captain Slow : 13th June 2014 at 00:09.
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Old 13th June 2014, 00:32   #85
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

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Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
Disclaimer: this post is strictly unofficial and im posting this as a fellow automobile enthusiast

I read through the whole thread and as a mahindra engineer, i can tell you from what i have seen regarding the functioning of this company,that if the news of this incident has reached the actual company, they will definitely be having a lot of meetings about it, about issues like how this problem occurred in the first place, how many vehicles could possibly be affected, finding a technically correct solution to your problem, etc etc.

I appreciate the fact that you started the post by telling us all you are with Mahindra. I really do, but I do not understand why it is so hard for you to put yourself in KK21's shoes. Would you accept a car like that? Be honest.
Do you think with better regulations in place the Mahindra's Tata's Maruti's etc. can get away with something like this?

And I don't agree that Mahindra will set a wrong precedent. They will set the right one and send a wonderful message across. Even if they have some stupid people coming in after this for replacements for trivial issues, I don't think it would cause them any defamation on forums where people understand cars.

My 2 cents.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 13th June 2014 at 11:19. Reason: Trimmed quoted long post.
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Old 13th June 2014, 00:44   #86
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

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Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
Disclaimer: this post is strictly unofficial and im posting this as a fellow automobile enthusiast
Excuse me for calling a spade a spade, but that post did nothing but suggest that the OP goes with the least acceptable 'solution', if it can be called that.

It is criminal to expect a person who had dished out more than 10 big ones to shut up and swallow the bitter pill.

If a car that's capable of doing some decent speeds has structural integrity issues, replacement is the least that the customer should expect - damages are ideally suitable for potentially putting someone's life in danger after taking money from him.
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Old 13th June 2014, 01:02   #87
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
Disclaimer: this post is strictly unofficial and im posting this as a fellow automobile enthusiast

I read through the whole thread and as a mahindra engineer, i can tell you from what i have seen regarding the functioning of this company,that if the news of this incident has reached the actual company, they will definitely be having a lot of meetings about it, about issues like how this problem occurred in the first place, how many vehicles could possibly be affected, finding a technically correct solution to your problem, etc etc.
All kinds of departments, like management, R&D, production, quality etc would already be on their toes to address this issue. Mr mahindra & Dr.Goenka are bloody serious about customer satisfaction and quality issues.



Appreciate your post. Very well said. Also your idea about spot welding in the gaps between the previous spot welds is the prescribed standard for such an activity.

Asking for a replacement car may sound a little too much I agree. But, the company keeping away from replacing the car is not so agreeable based on the grounds that the company will face repeated replacements. Why give room for such an occurrence in the future? If this is a one off case, then the company must replace the car and needn't worry about multiple replacement cars to be given, if there isnt a problem in the first place. Of course they can refuse a replacement car for items which can be taken out and bolted on.

Talking about this, a Maruti Swift which had a stalling issue was replaced with a brand new car. Now the swift has been selling like hotcakes and a negative issue would have spread as you say. But the replacement was made because MSIL was sure this is a one off case. Instead they could have started replacing the entire engine, wiring harness, ECU every time the problem wasnt solved. Its their confidence that one replacement car won't attract more replacement cars. Guess M&M should treat this as a one off case in the same way and replace the car IMO.
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Old 13th June 2014, 09:51   #88
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
Disclaimer: this post is strictly unofficial and im posting this as a fellow automobile enthusiast

I read through the whole thread and as a mahindra engineer, i can tell you from what i have seen regarding the functioning of this company,that if the news of this incident has reached the actual company, they will definitely be having a lot of meetings about it, about issues like how this problem occurred in the first place, how many vehicles could possibly be affected, finding a technically correct solution to your problem, etc etc.
All kinds of departments, like management, R&D, production, quality etc would already be on their toes to address this issue. Mr mahindra & Dr.Goenka are bloody serious about customer satisfaction and quality issues.

Now a lot of people are saying that the vehicle be replaced. Honestly in my opinion, thats too much to ask. The truth is mahindra wouldve have willingly replaced the vehicle just to keep a customer happy. The cost of one single vehicle wouldnt even show in their balance sheets. And customer satisfaction is indeed considered the number one! priority here, as a fellow bhpian saw for himself when his engine was replaced without fuss.

The trouble is if they replaced the vehicle and people found out, that would set a terrible precedent.
Good luck
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpksuhas View Post
As a Mahindra customer this is always good to know.

Yes, it may be true, from a company point of view. However for a customer who has spend his / her money it is bit of a raw deal. Also public forums overall is a two way street, it is not that everyone is writing about un-reliable vehicles only. There are many threads which praises about reliability of many models / manufacturers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Appreciate your post. Very well said. Also your idea about spot welding in the gaps between the previous spot welds is the prescribed standard for such an activity.

If this is a one off case, then the company must replace the car and needn't worry about multiple replacement cars to be given, if there isnt a problem in the first place. Of course they can refuse a replacement car for items which can be taken out and bolted on.

I am in agreement with mycarhasablower partially. I am not an expert on structual integrity, but I feel the company MUST look into this matter with top priority for several reasons.

a. Issues related to structural integrity must be investigated on priority basis to ensure the customer faith. It does not appear to us (externally) that Mahindra has this issue classified as needing urgent attention.
b. If a customer paid for such an expensive car, he needs to utilize it for his daily needs. Keeping the car at the workshop with no "visible progress" to the end customer isn't good.
c. In Bangalore atleast, several of my colleagues who own Mahindra vehicles complain about the poor and inexperience after sales service network. They do not seem to have a good idea of how to go about solving the problem. This, to a paying customer is scary.
d. Stay engaged with the customer reporting the issue, give them an update every 2 days or so (Email/phone whatever is convenient) This is the least you guys should do to ensure customer faith that the issue is being investigated appropriately. Keeping in the dark is just useless and erodes confidence. No responses in few days is just not acceptable for issues like these.

I, for one will be quite unhappy if I had to leave my car at the service for an issue like this without being constantly updated by the company about what is happening. As investigation progresses, the customer must be updated about what actions are being taken. It doesn't cost time and money in today's world. With all these measures, if your BIW engineer believes the issue can be sorted out properly , the vehicle is as safe as a new one and warranty isn't void, then Mahindra has the right to refuse a replacement since they would have justified their stand. I agree that asking for a replacement before full investigation by qualified personnel is complete is an unreasonable ask.

Again, stay engaged with the customer, update them about the progress of the investigation at Mahindra and you will instill confidence for sure.
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Old 13th June 2014, 10:15   #89
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

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Yes we do have an so called ""Protection ACT"", Again who does it protect? the car manufactures or the Auto Industry lobbyists?
As I said in my previous post that legal course is the last resort. In a country like India with over 100 crore population and lacs and lacs of cases pending in the courts, the legal action is bound to take time and justice is going to get delayed. However, Lok Adalats and Consumer Courts are doing a great job towards protecting consumers. They are quicker and pro-consumer as well-I am telling you this based of my personal experience. In my only one interaction that I ever had with the Lok Adalat last year, the judge freed me up of my liabilities towards Reliance in only one seating. It was a economic offence for which the court had summoned me. It was the Consumer Protection Act that saved me and hence, I quoted it as well, believing as it has helped me it may also help KK21 in case negotiations with Mahindra fail. My two cents.

No idea about bhpian Harish's case though. You may share the link.
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Old 13th June 2014, 11:20   #90
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Default Re: XUV500 diagnosed with broken spot welds. Re-weld or replace the frame?

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Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
Aah!! The ugly quality control failure on a critical component such as the chassis, raises its head in Mahindra as well. Hope this is an one off case and doesn't go the Tata way.

Hope they are as proactive as they are in recent times and settle the case at the earliest to your satisfaction.
High hops that you have @cliffhanger ! What made you feel that Mahindra is any different from any Banya-ki-dukan when it comes to QA ? The whole Indian automotive scene is replete with defects, rule bending, poor or non-existant QA, etc.

Take the recent cases of fires reported in delhi - Etios, Dzire, Aveo, WagonR, even a high end Audi Q7 ! Are these brands (audi, Toyota) not considered the epitome of QA? BTW, of all these fire cases, none have been reported from the TATA stable, for your info.

M&M is a street smart company and will cut corners or bend rules / compromise on quality and what not, to keep the sales charts ticking, that's what I can gauge from their adventures. Live young , live free indeed ! And die coughing and spurting after the youth is over, eh ?

Wait for a year or two more, the XUV will show it's true colours even better ! And then, we will have a "new" model from M&M to cover up for all the blunders.
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