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Old 18th July 2014, 16:40   #16
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Guys, I described this issue to my colleague who drives an LPG WagonR, factory-fitted, and he wanted to know if all this applies to LPG-fitted vehicles too. Any answers?
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Old 22nd July 2014, 12:29   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnabchak View Post
I believe the WR kits are sequential kits of Venturi and not Lovato.
Maybe you are right. But the filter had Lovato inscribed on it. So I assumed the kit is from Lovator. Thanks for pointing out. It means that these filters could be interchangeable for reduced inventories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FarPatel View Post
Guys, I described this issue to my colleague who drives an LPG WagonR, factory-fitted, and he wanted to know if all this applies to LPG-fitted vehicles too. Any answers?
It will apply to wherever there is a compressor pumping in gas into the car. LPG too will need a compressor to deliver it at the right pressure. So logically it applies to LPG cars as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Y A G I View Post
Hi syravi,

I own a Wagon R K Series , Jan 2011 Vxi.Please share the process or thread from team-bhp to clean the AC filter.One problem which is bugging me on and off is the changeover from Petrol to CNG.Sometimes it does not change to CNG even after the cylinder is full and one day I wanted to rectify this issue, but after driving about 10 kms and in frustration I speed up the car on a mini speed breaker near Geeta Colony by pass road while coming from the Kashmere gate.That very moment when my car was crossing the speed breaker the car shifted to CNG. I particularly notice a sound coming from the right side of the engine bay, and it feels as if something is hitting continuously a hollow water mug . and it only comes when the car refuse to shift to CNG.

I really feel that there should be some specialized mechanics for the CNG cars but alas, everyone seems to just interested in fitting the kit and forgetting the maintenance part.

Please help me if out in this case if you have faced this issue of car refusing to shift to CNG and making weird sound as explained above in this post.
Sorry! I have no clue on this. But will definitely research and find out. In case I hit upon a solution, I will let you know. From what I think, you have some relay problem, the one that switches CNG from Petrol. But I will find out more and let you know.
About AC cleaning, I have already shared a youtube link in one of my comments. Sharing again:



Also, please guys, share this information at your facebook accounts. This knowledge I stumbled by accident. If more people are aware, they will demand filters which these retro guys dont keep. This way they will have to store the spares and provide after sales service which they currently do not provide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
Is this filter present on sequential type cng kits as well ?
Logically and functionally it is a must. It is to prevent compressor oil from damaging the kit and your car engine. So no way any technology can bypass this vital element.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
I am just sharing my experience over an extended ownership period. Perhaps the F10D engine was more robust than the current K10.

Nonetheless, the point you make about compressor oil sneaking into the engine and potentially causing damage is logical. I am no expert in the construction of CNG kits but yes, this entire issue warrants further investigation.

You have raised a new and an important point that hardly anyone knows about.

Please share the WagonR CNG manual that you downloaded and mention the relevant page numbers.
The wagon R cng maintenance manual can be downloaded from this link:

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct...71198958,d.c2E

Look at Page 14 of this manual.

Attaching a link to the screen print of the same:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

Last edited by Eddy : 4th June 2015 at 20:15. Reason: Merged
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Old 22nd July 2014, 12:42   #18
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnS_12 View Post
Wow, this is an interesting piece of information that you have shared over here.


But, what about people who fit aftermarket CNG kits? Can they source these filters locally? I guess this is one of the reason why lot of people complain that CNG cars lose out on power after a few years of usage.

Thank you for sharing!
This we must find out from those who fit these kits and insist on the replacement filters. It is a part of their job.
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Old 23rd July 2014, 13:14   #19
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Excellent thread Ravi.

I had reported my experience about changing the filter here (I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!) with the pictures of the filter itself here. (I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!)

I have also attached the relevant page from the periodic maintenance manual for my car showing the various features that need attention.

The importance of changing CNG Filters on time-maruti-sx4-owners-manual-cng-page12.jpg

But it says only replacing the cartridge O ring every 4 yrs or 300000 km. not the cartridge itself.

By the way the cylinder leak test needs to be carried out every 3 years and not 5. This notice can be seen at every IGL filling station. One attendant was very keen to point that out to me recently. The do seek out the CNG tag plate actively these days.
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Old 24th July 2014, 12:21   #20
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Quote:
Originally Posted by LithiumSunset View Post
Excellent thread Ravi.

I had reported my experience about changing the filter here (I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!) with the pictures of the filter itself here. (I bought a car that no one is buying! Maruti SX4 with factory-fit CNG!)

I have also attached the relevant page from the periodic maintenance manual for my car showing the various features that need attention.

Attachment 1265323

But it says only replacing the cartridge O ring every 4 yrs or 300000 km. not the cartridge itself.

By the way the cylinder leak test needs to be carried out every 3 years and not 5. This notice can be seen at every IGL filling station. One attendant was very keen to point that out to me recently. The do seek out the CNG tag plate actively these days.
Lithium, that's odd! That SX4 and Wagon R should have different schedules of replacements. Also I feel that CNG filter receptacle O Ring can be interepreted as what you have written or that both should be replaced. Logically, both should be replaced I guess. A clarification from the maintenance guys at your workshop should suffice. But 3,00,000 kms is a lot of kms. I doubt you will hold the car that long.
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Old 24th July 2014, 12:29   #21
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Attaching the JPEG of the Maintenance Manual As well
Attached Thumbnails
The importance of changing CNG Filters on time-untitled1.jpg  

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Old 26th July 2014, 10:31   #22
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Quote:
Originally Posted by syravi View Post
Attaching the JPEG of the Maintenance Manual As well
Ravi,

I think the two manuals use different words altogether. The one for SX4 says 'Receptacle filler O ring' but your's says 'Reducer filter with O ring'. These two seem to be referring to completely different things. One is the 'gasket' at the filler nozzle but the other?

Which brings up a another issue, assuming the SX4 kit has this reducer filter, how come the maintenance requirement is different for the CNG kits of the same manufacturer?

LS
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Old 1st August 2014, 14:52   #23
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Lithium,
This is totally crazy and weird. The only possible explanation is that your kit doesnt have a CNG reducer filter. This is the high pressure filter and the absence of it is weird. In your car they are only asking you to change the low pressure filter.

You must take this issue up with some technical guy. But I think your kit doesnt have a high pressure filter.
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Old 2nd August 2014, 12:29   #24
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Quote:
Originally Posted by syravi View Post
Lithium,
This is totally crazy and weird. The only possible explanation is that your kit doesnt have a CNG reducer filter. This is the high pressure filter and the absence of it is weird. In your car they are only asking you to change the low pressure filter.

You must take this issue up with some technical guy. But I think your kit doesnt have a high pressure filter.
Well that is one less thing to change / maintain. Why wake a sleeping monster? I'm going to stick to the manual to the T. :-)
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Old 26th May 2015, 11:23   #25
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

@syravi - excellent information. I have an April 2012 Wagon R CNG model in Mumbai which is used by the mother. However her daily running has reduced quite a bit - result in just 3 years, the car has been driven 20000 kms. Till now i was quite lax in maintaining the car as the service centre visits result in large bills - even though the car is low on running. However stumbled upon your post by accident. Have the following queries

1. Mileage of the car right from Day 1 has always been 15-18 kms/ ltr - inspite of driving with a light foot. Have brought it out numerous times to the MASS - but they said this is normal
2. AC cooling is not as good as before - will try and DIY the air filter like you have suggested
3. I generally do the servicing once a year from the past 2 years - (as i mentioned above - car was low on running). However of late, i find the car pickup is a bit sluggish considering the sprightly pickup it had in earlier days - what could be the cause ?

pls advise
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Old 31st May 2015, 11:26   #26
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
Is this filter present on sequential type cng kits as well ?
Logically, every kit should have the filters in place and if they are not using, then they are cutting corners. The problem arises due to the oil from gas station compressor mixing with the CNG gases so every CNG kart will face the problem of oil clogging if this is not attended.
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Old 31st May 2015, 11:41   #27
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Quote:
Originally Posted by mentalmaxout View Post
@syravi - excellent information. I have an April 2012 Wagon R CNG model in Mumbai which is used by the mother. However her daily running has reduced quite a bit - result in just 3 years, the car has been driven 20000 kms. Till now i was quite lax in maintaining the car as the service centre visits result in large bills - even though the car is low on running. However stumbled upon your post by accident. Have the following queries

1. Mileage of the car right from Day 1 has always been 15-18 kms/ ltr - inspite of driving with a light foot. Have brought it out numerous times to the MASS - but they said this is normal
2. AC cooling is not as good as before - will try and DIY the air filter like you have suggested
3. I generally do the servicing once a year from the past 2 years - (as i mentioned above - car was low on running). However of late, i find the car pickup is a bit sluggish considering the sprightly pickup it had in earlier days - what could be the cause ?

pls advise
Mileage is a tricky issue mentalmaxout. It depends on the road quality, tire inflation pressure, traffic conditions and yes even atmospheric condition. 15-18 in the city is pretty good and you can easily give this worry a rest. I drive on the gurgaon expressway in wekdays and get about 22 without ac. But in the city where I have to drive over weekends for weekly house chores sometimes I get a dismal 12-14 because traffic is heavy and the car never comes out of 3rd gear.

You should do service after 6 months. The CNG air filter gets clogged very fast and it affects the performance of the car badly. If you feel a performance dip in pick up and feel you are driving a car that is not breathing properly, you can be sure it is the air filter. I have bought a chinese blower which I have decided to use after every one month because I have seen how dfrastically a clogged air filter affects. Normally I clean it after 5,000 kms but I am finding that even this period is a bit long because I see a lot of dust accumulated. Also please ensure you use compressed air to clean it as otherwise the cleaning is not effective. Also only go for MGP air filter. They have a comparison drawing between and MGP air filter and another air filter and the difference to me appeared huge. SO dont go for any other air filter. It would be ok with a petrol car but not with CNG.

If this doesnt work, then you have to get your injectors cleaned and get your spark plugs repaired. Use only NGK spark plugs of the series as recomended in the maintenance manual. And keep the gap as 1.0 mm and not 0.8 mm as most mechanics will like to. Check this gap with a filler gauge and not by general 'estimate' as these guys will try to. Most garages dont have it, so dont visit them. Visit only those garages that have it. AS they have a professional approach to solve your problems. I have bought a filler gauge after a lot of searching and got it for 150.

You should get the AC serviced every year for good cooling. The money you will spend will be worth it. A road side but smart mechanic can do this job easily for say a 100-200 Rs. Basically you need to take out the AC blower, clean it and also clean the AC filter. But you must do it with compressed air. Ordinary tap and clean the dust wont remove the dust. For AC filter if it is badly clog you might have to wash and let it dry before use as I have explained in my other thread.

Hope this helps
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Old 31st May 2015, 11:46   #28
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnS_12 View Post
Wow, this is an interesting piece of information that you have shared over here.


But, what about people who fit aftermarket CNG kits? Can they source these filters locally? I guess this is one of the reason why lot of people complain that CNG cars lose out on power after a few years of usage.

Thank you for sharing!
Yes. I too drove an after market fitted car and was plague with performance issues. I kept shuttling between the petrol tuners and CNG tuners and could not get to to remove the jerks and splutters and the very rough ride I started experiencing at the end. Frustrated, I sold it off as a scrap!
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Old 31st May 2015, 11:49   #29
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Y A G I View Post
Hi syravi,

I own a Wagon R K Series , Jan 2011 Vxi.Please share the process or thread from team-bhp to clean the AC filter.One problem which is bugging me on and off is the changeover from Petrol to CNG.Sometimes it does not change to CNG even after the cylinder is full and one day I wanted to rectify this issue, but after driving about 10 kms and in frustration I speed up the car on a mini speed breaker near Geeta Colony by pass road while coming from the Kashmere gate.That very moment when my car was crossing the speed breaker the car shifted to CNG. I particularly notice a sound coming from the right side of the engine bay, and it feels as if something is hitting continuously a hollow water mug . and it only comes when the car refuse to shift to CNG.

I really feel that there should be some specialized mechanics for the CNG cars but alas, everyone seems to just interested in fitting the kit and forgetting the maintenance part.

Please help me if out in this case if you have faced this issue of car refusing to shift to CNG and making weird sound as explained above in this post.
Sorry for the late response. You must get the change over switch replaced. Or maybe the connections somewhere are loose.
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Old 4th June 2015, 12:28   #30
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Default Re: The importance of changing CNG Filters on time

Quote:
Originally Posted by syravi View Post
Mileage is a tricky issue mentalmaxout. It depends on the road quality, tire inflation pressure, traffic conditions and yes even atmospheric condition. 15-18 in the city is pretty good and you can easily give this worry a rest. I drive on the gurgaon expressway in wekdays and get about 22 without ac. But in the city where I have to drive over weekends for weekly house chores sometimes I get a dismal 12-14 because traffic is heavy and the car never comes out of 3rd gear.
Thanks a ton for your inputs Syravi. very helpful.

Getting my car serviced today. Last service was a year ago and I thought it was ok as in the last year the car has run only for some 7000 kms. Thanks to your informative thread - am getting the CNG filter changed. Got met with stares when i told them about the O ring fliter to be changed at 20000 kms - they didnt know which and said there were 2 filters - one in the engine area and other at the CNG gas cylinder. Finally gave them the part number and they realised which one - didnt have in stock and have to order them which will arrive by evening. Funny that they didn't know about this - All thanks to you, atleast I could point it out with the Parts number.

Also he recommended doing the following. The car is a May 2012 model with 21000 kms on ODO.

-Oil & Oil filter change
- Coolant replace
-Tyre rotation& wheel alignment & balancing
-Throttle Body cleaning
-Fuel injector cleaning
-Air filter change (MGP)
-Spark plug - 1mm gap (should i change it or only clean it - Its NGK in use)
CNG Low pressure filter change

Anything else you recommend? total cost approx 8-9 kis been quoted...

Also getting the AC filter cleaned from local AC mechanic and not at MASS

Please let me know your views

Last edited by ampere : 4th June 2015 at 12:31. Reason: Removed bulk of the quoted post
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