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Old 21st July 2014, 09:52   #16
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Originally Posted by ::CMS:: View Post
I dont think you should leave the matter w/o finding the root cause. If the module is dead, the question is why is it alive to do these kind of stupid things? Find out if it is as per the design, if so, then its a big loop hole as the module can conk off at any time (may be purposefully or by itself) and anybody can get access to your car, in simple terms, there is no security.
Check the post on this thread by 'Saket77' which also could be the reason for the vehicle to get unlocked on its own. May be it designed that way.

Nippon guys should clear the air here else it is going to be trouble.

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Originally Posted by rockporiom View Post
The car was returned today, I got a bill of Rs.0 with general check up in particulars and "keyless module replace by nippon engineer" in remarks.
Please do get into the matter why it happened to get unlocked on its own? Ask the Nippon guy to explain it clearly so that it will clear all our doubts. Thanks.
Anurag.

Last edited by a4anurag : 21st July 2014 at 10:14.
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Old 21st July 2014, 10:36   #17
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Default Re: Dzire security system fails, unlocks all doors!

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
This could be due to some fail-safe mechanism built into the car so that the occupants do not get stuck inside the car in case of any electrical malfunction (or any other catastrophe such as fire/ accidents etc) which may lead to them not be able to open the doors locks. This is the only logical reason that comes to my mind. More logical than being a suspected 'bug' in the system.
Exactly what occurred to me when I read the OP. This might be an inbuilt 'safety' feature. Electrical failure might have resulted in the system opening all doors. As to what caused the electrical failure - could be rodents or maybe an ill fitted connector. Ask the Nippon guy, what all he replaced.

And yes, do get a steering and gear lock for your car.
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Old 21st July 2014, 11:14   #18
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Default Re: Dzire security system fails, unlocks all doors!

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
This could be due to some fail-safe mechanism built into the car so that the occupants do not get stuck inside the car in case of any electrical malfunction (or any other catastrophe such as fire/ accidents etc) which may lead to them not be able to open the doors locks.
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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Check the post on this thread by 'Saket77' which also could be the reason for the vehicle to get unlocked on its own. May be it designed that way.
If that is the case, I see it as a design disaster which makes the car insecure by external parameters / changes. Cant we unlock the dzire doors manually from inside, is it fully controlled electrically, I doubt. Automatic opening during fire or accident is a different case as it has to open irrespective of other factors.

Here the external factors are dead battery and "conked" module, how can these be involved with the security?
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Old 21st July 2014, 11:25   #19
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Default Re: Dzire security system fails, unlocks all doors!

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If that is the case, I see it as a design disaster which makes the car insecure by external parameters / changes. Cant we unlock the dzire doors manually from inside, is it fully controlled electrically, I doubt. Automatic opening during fire or accident is a different case as it has to open irrespective of other factors.
Here the external factors are dead battery and "conked" module, how can these be involved with the security?
I think that the doors of D'zire can be unlocked from inside, overriding the electronics. However, here's something that I get from the TBHP official review:

GTO writes & I quote "The doors auto-lock once you get moving. And unlock when you remove the key from the ignition. Also, the doors will auto-unlock in case of a major shunt. "

So, what I am suspecting along a few, may actually be correct. It may be a case of conked module which may have left the occupants locked in the car, so the doors unlocked by themselves. It may be the central locking system working in isolation to the fact that the doors could have been manually opened from inside.

Regards,
Saket
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Old 21st July 2014, 11:38   #20
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Default Re: Dzire security system fails, unlocks all doors!

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Originally Posted by ::CMS:: View Post
If that is the case, I see it as a design disaster which makes the car insecure by external parameters / changes. Cant we unlock the dzire doors manually from inside, is it fully controlled electrically, I doubt. Automatic opening during fire or accident is a different case as it has to open irrespective of other factors.

Here the external factors are dead battery and "conked" module, how can these be involved with the security?
Mechanical locks are always supposed to work, on any car. But haven't we seen enough examples of car's security systems not letting the occupants open doors in case of fires? My guess is to mitigate such risks, this was put in place. It might be a crude implementation of the concept - doors should not lock and trap passengers inside the car in case of fire/accident.

I think they implemented a simple *unlock everything* if there is *any* failure in the circuit/module. Sure, it would be better if this unlock thing was triggered only if the car was in motion earlier or if there are any occupants inside. But adding these restrictions would make the system even more complex pushing the cost up.

If the OP could get more details on the system and failure, it would clear up most of our doubts.
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Old 21st July 2014, 11:59   #21
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Default Re: Dzire security system fails, unlocks all doors!

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Mechanical locks are always supposed to work, on any car. But haven't we seen enough examples of car's security systems not letting the occupants open doors in case of fires? My guess is to mitigate such risks, this was put in place.
Mechanical locks should work in any case irrespective of the electronics or condition of the car, if it works that way, how can the above scenario valid? This is valid when the electronics interfere with the functioning of the manual locking/unlocking. I see this kind of designs are like quick / partial solutions (proper word would be workaround) to mitigate an important risk because of the cost factor to redesign the security system.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 21st July 2014 at 12:01.
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Old 21st July 2014, 23:26   #22
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Default Re: Dzire security system fails, unlocks all doors!

Hey guys I asked the ASC for the reason of failure they say that none of the fuses or wires were damaged. They suspect that rain caused the damage, they didn't have an answer as to why the car unlocked or how it failed. They say that this is the first time they have come across such an issue. They assured me that it won't happen again. As to what they changed, they have changed the entire nippon module that controls the keyless, alarm and speed sensing door lock system.
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Old 22nd July 2014, 00:38   #23
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Default Re: Dzire security system fails, unlocks all doors!

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Originally Posted by rockporiom View Post
Hey guys I asked the ASC for the reason of failure they say that none of the fuses or wires were damaged. They suspect that rain caused the damage, they didn't have an answer as to why the car unlocked or how it failed. They say that this is the first time they have come across such an issue. They assured me that it won't happen again. As to what they changed, they have changed the entire nippon module that controls the keyless, alarm and speed sensing door lock system.
A bit different situation for me about 3 years back. The swift would not lock or unlock, and on starting the car the alarm would go off on full blast with all the side indicators blinking. The MSM SA guided me on phone on how to detach the cable for the siren, and in the blinking mode I was guided to the nearest Maruti ASS. After several tries to 'reset' the system and re-pair the keys they simply came out of the spares department with a module that was fitted in below the dash (near where the fuses are kept - sorry, I was not so savvy about vehicles at the time) and re-paired the keys again. Since the issue happened within 2 years of purchase of the vehicle, it was covered in Maruti standard warranty.

The MSM was Thanawala. The ASS was one at Kalina near the CST Market (It is located a bit interior from the main road, and they had a large compound at the time).

Weather - Monsoon.

I never believed this could be related to the rainy season, calling it a electronics failure. Could still be the same in your case. A rare instance of an electronic part failing much before its rated lifespan.
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Old 22nd July 2014, 01:34   #24
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They say that this is the first time they have come across such an issue. They assured me that it won't happen again. As to what they changed, they have changed the entire nippon module that controls the keyless, alarm and speed sensing door lock system.
What bizarre answers these guys give customers! Just goes above my head.

As per the ASC this is the first time they are witnessing such an issue and after changing EVERYTHING related as they couldn't find the exact root cause they comment and on top assure the customer that it will not repeat.

They have no idea what caused this problem but they are sure of it not repeating. How easy it is!

Try and get on contact with Nippon directly. They should be of some help.

Anurag.

Last edited by a4anurag : 22nd July 2014 at 01:35.
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Old 22nd July 2014, 02:01   #25
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Default Re: Dzire security system fails, unlocks all doors!

How can they assure you it won't recur if they don't know what happened in the first place?
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Old 22nd July 2014, 06:45   #26
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Default Re: Dzire security system fails, unlocks all doors!

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What bizarre answers these guys give customers! Just goes above my head.

As per the ASC this is the first time they are witnessing such an issue and after changing EVERYTHING related as they couldn't find the exact root cause they comment and on top assure the customer that it will not repeat.

They have no idea what caused this problem but they are sure of it not repeating. How easy it is!

Try and get on contact with Nippon directly. They should be of some help.

Anurag.
I should have been more clear. This was the answer I got in the presence of the Nippon engineer. He was also surprised to see the issue and he was the one who had suggested to check the wiring. They just replaced the module after checking wiring and fuse. They didn't want to find out the root cause. They just wanted to sort the issue.

Also, it is one single module that controls all the three functions stated.

Last edited by rockporiom : 22nd July 2014 at 06:46.
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Old 22nd July 2014, 08:03   #27
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I should have been more clear. This was the answer I got in the presence of the Nippon engineer. He was also surprised to see the issue and he was the one who had suggested to check the wiring. They just replaced the module after checking wiring and fuse. They didn't want to find out the root cause. They just wanted to sort the issue.

Also, it is one single module that controls all the three functions stated.
No wonder the 'consumer complaint' board had a LONG list of complaints registered in Nippon security systems.

This answer is an absolute NO-NO from a Nippon engineer. It is their unit and they jolly well know what the reason is OR ask for time so that they can find the root cause and revert to Maruti and to the customer so that the required precautions are take in future.

Not all owners have safe parking.

OT, was this diagnosis etc etc done at Kiran or Nanda Motors?

Anurag.
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Old 23rd July 2014, 01:05   #28
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Default Re: Dzire security system fails, unlocks all doors!

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No wonder the 'consumer complaint' board had a LONG list of complaints registered in Nippon security systems.

This answer is an absolute NO-NO from a Nippon engineer. It is their unit and they jolly well know what the reason is OR ask for time so that they can find the root cause and revert to Maruti and to the customer so that the required precautions are take in future.

Not all owners have safe parking.

OT, was this diagnosis etc etc done at Kiran or Nanda Motors?

Anurag.
Diagnosis and replacement done at Nanda.
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Old 23rd July 2014, 08:04   #29
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Diagnosis and replacement done at Nanda.
Alright but I can't blame Nanda fully as it Nippon's responsibility to diagnose and issue the corrective action for the found root cause.

They just seem to wash their hands off the issue and not seem to be interested in finding out what it is.

Nevertheless, all is back on track for both cars, now go get a puja don't for them ASAP. Seriously!

Anurag.
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Old 23rd July 2014, 23:01   #30
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Default Re: Dzire security system fails, unlocks all doors!

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Alright but I can't blame Nanda fully as it Nippon's responsibility to diagnose and issue the corrective action for the found root cause.

They just seem to wash their hands off the issue and not seem to be interested in finding out what it is.

Nevertheless, all is back on track for both cars, now go get a puja don't for them ASAP. Seriously!

Anurag.
Looks like there was some misunderstanding from my end. I had gone to the ASC today for my friend's Dzire having noise from suspension. I had a chat with the WM and he cleared all the confusion. The verdict given by nippon was manufacturing defect. There was problem in the wiring and the module both.

Also, to all Dzire owners there is a TSB out for the dead axle that makes squeaking noise on bad roads. My car is also under that and even my friends car. Don't know if it covers the swift also.

Last edited by noopster : 24th July 2014 at 10:53. Reason: As requested
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