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Old 8th August 2014, 15:56   #16
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post

Moreover IIRC in TBhp itself I read that the timing belt is oil immersed. I haven't heard of a rat that can consume engine oil, which is considered to be environmentally harmful.
No, timing belt don't need any lubrication and hence are not immersed in anything. Its the timing chains which needs an oil bath.

Last edited by humyum : 8th August 2014 at 15:56. Reason: Opps, Grammar !
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Old 8th August 2014, 15:59   #17
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
No, timing belt don't need any lubrication and hence are not immersed in anything. Its the timing chains which needs an oil bath.
As other members said, it is the Ecoboost engine that has an oil immersed timing belt and not a chain. The diesel here has a dry timing belt.
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Old 8th August 2014, 16:10   #18
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Guess its an assembly issue or some other issue that caused the timing belt to develop such a deformation. If they were to give the rat explanation to me, I would have given the entire service centre personnel sleepless nights repenting their stupidity. Just make sure that in order to back their story, they don't try to damage the timing cover, which afaik isn't something that can be damaged by a rat.

Moreover IIRC in TBhp itself I read that the timing belt is oil immersed. I haven't heard of a rat that can consume engine oil, which is considered to be environmentally harmful.
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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
As other members said, it is the Ecoboost engine that has an oil immersed timing belt and not a chain. The diesel here has a dry timing belt.
Oh sorry, I did not know that !
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Old 8th August 2014, 16:19   #19
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

Nonsense Rat And Kerosene Story.

Get FORD to the table and raise hell for them for a quality fail engine. Dont deal with the stupid workshop, insist on getting a ford engineer down ASAP.

Possible causes

1) Something seized in the camshaft for a microsecond and the gear chewed thru the belt in that process.

2) Due to that timing jump, the sensor caught it as a misfire and stalled further cranks.

But no ways rat. Check for fuel adultration, but even that is impossible because new-gen engine have a array of fuel sensors all the way from tank -> suction pump -> fuel filter -> CRDI Pump. somwhere adulterated diesel would have been detected and engine would have shut down.

This smells a lemon and please ensure a speedy hell-rising and resolution. Any delays they would only get time to come up with excuses? "Oh sorry sir, it wasnt rat in the sealed timing belt case, it was the microscopic ebola"!
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Old 8th August 2014, 17:07   #20
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

Funny. As stated by other BHPians, it is impossible for a rat to enter the timing case. This is a case of either a faulty/ lousy quality timing belt or for some reason the belt has jumped/ rubbed agaist cogs due to seized OH cam shaft, as stated by Santosh. May be the pretensioner assembly needs to be checked too. Informed BHPians may please enlighten me that if this is an interference or non-interference engine we are talking here. If the former, the expenses can be high.
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Old 8th August 2014, 17:43   #21
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

I am not taking anyone's side but is it just me or is that a real rat carcass smashed to pulp on the timing belt in the pic posted by the OP. I don't know much about the Hard plastic cover for the timing belt on ford's through which if a rat can chew through or not has already been debated. But just for argument sake can a rat getting in the timing chain cause such failure?? Cant a rat carcass getting into the timing belt cause a minor disruption in the engine and cause damage to all the related components.Seems plausible IMHO. If so its a worrying proposition for other car owners.

Last edited by rocky080 : 8th August 2014 at 17:48.
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Old 8th August 2014, 17:59   #22
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

In all my years of owning various cars and transport vehicles, never have I heard of rats chewing on any exposed belts like fanbelts, a/c belts, or power steering belts. Rats, in my opinion have a liking to chew wires, gear lever boots, engine compartment insulators, interior upholstery.
The Premier Padmini 137-D engine's Timing belt had only a kutcha plastic case, covering only the front part of the timing case. you could see the timing belt and could touch it without opening the timing case. The belt is exposed to all the dust, water, oil spillage, and there was never any problem whatsoever. (A link to the 137-D's engine photo in Team-BHP) -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...d-dsc00005.jpg

In todays vehicles, the timing belt is well enclosed in a proper plastic casing wherein it is impossible for dust/water to get in. In my opinion, the damage to the timing belt seems more of a manufacturing defect or mechanical damage caused by seizure.
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Old 8th August 2014, 20:59   #23
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

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Originally Posted by lancersfx View Post
I'm posting this on behalf of a friend.

"This is regarding your Ecosport vehicle (Reg Num:-KA 'Removed')has reported on 31/7/14 with the complaint of vehicle jerking during the vehicle inspection initially it was suspected due to fuel adulteration which causing MIL (Mal Functional indicator lamp) but further diagnosis it was detected that the rat has entered in the timing case ,due to which the timing got disturbed and the engine internal parts got damaged."
I think the most crucial question here is, where is the timing belt plastic cover? Was it shown to the car owner? Does it have any marks and holes tht a rat has chewed through? If this isn't the case, then the only 'rat' in this story is the dealer. If the dealer even manages to show a damaged timing belt cover, you could even go so far as to check with an animal doctor if the damage is rat inflicted or has been done manually to prove the dealer's theory.

Further, adulterated fuel should not damage the camshaft, just parts like the injectors and fuel delivery system, if at all. The owner should demand a sample of the fuel from his own car showing the adulterated fuel and do so without warning, so they cannot add kerosene to the tank as he is on his way. A test result should also be demanded since they have quoted a number that could only have been achieved through laboratory testing.

Do not accept the dealer explanation until you have proven it yourself.
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Old 8th August 2014, 21:32   #24
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend's car. Not so long ago I had a similar experience with my Figo. My problem though was with the Power steering belt. I have documented my ordeal dealing with Ford and Ford service in the following thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ed-60-kph.html (Figo: Power Steering Belt snapped at 60 kph!)

My car still was under extended warranty. after so many emails back and forth and phone calls with both Ford and the service center. They simply refused to take responsibility for the problem. I only ended up wasting my time and peace.

I hope your friend gets a better response from Ford.
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Old 9th August 2014, 04:16   #25
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Dear lancersfx,
As rocky080 has said (post #26), there appears a possibility that the muck seen on the belt in your first photograph is a rat carcass. I saved that photograph and zoomed it; I felt that it could be the rat carcass. Suggest you to go and check yourself.

If indeed a rat gets inside the timing case and gets trapped between the belt and the pulley while cranking the engine, it will cause high amount of momentary over-tension on the belt and this can cause the camshaft to bend at the portion where the timing pulley is mounted. This is the end portion of the camshaft, overhanging outside. The over-tension will also damage the belt teeth.

So, indeed if it is a rat carcass, then this damage is likely IMO. Appreciate the possibility that you considered, rocky080.

I do understand the sentiments / concerns shared by other members about the attitude / service at dealerships and the response by the company. I was about to buy Ford Fiesta in 2011. The service station owner where I used to get my Maruti 800 serviced (who had also become a good friend of mine over the period of time), went all out to prevent me from this. He gave me references of people who suffered because of breakdowns / long repair time / dealer attitude / repair costs. After meeting those people, I changed the mind and went in for SX4. Happily living with the beast and MAS has so far maintained the car to my satisfaction.

Ecosport is a good posh car loaded with features / style, sold at an attractive price. To maintain profitability while offering such a good value proposition is indeed a tough task. Few buyers might experience some odd problems though the company does not intend so. Few buyers may suffer once, but by and large, the market enjoys a posh upmarket car at an attractive price. While buying such posh cars at attractive prices, one shall keep in mind the chances (risk) of stumbling upon a costly breakdown, once.

Good looks / style, good features, upmarket interiors, good FE and good reliability all cannot be had at an attractive price. I am not justifying the quality issues but while luring the market, the manufacturer also needs to protect the earnings of shareholders, employees and vendors. So the buyers too need to be wiser and have rational expectations IMO.

Shall T-BHP start recommending to keep some reserve funds aside while buying cars that seem too good for their price? Just park that money in some bank deposit.

The post from rocky080 is at #21 instead of #26, regret the typing error.

Last edited by Zappo : 12th August 2014 at 12:37.
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Old 9th August 2014, 11:56   #26
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

Rahul,
[FONT=&quot]The best thing for you would be to take a detailed report from the dealership on paper, with supporting images, then apply for repairs under insurance cover. The insurance company surveyer will take another detailed report from the service station then if both are same, you are eligible for getting the entire service covered under insurance.

As the damage amount is more than your premium it is better to claim insurance for this incident. In a B-comprehensive insurance package, own damages are also covered. If that option fails, you get the vehicle repaired, then approach consumer court, and make ford and the ASS parties for "Deficiency of service" and claim 2X damages, I am sure in your case you will atleast get 50% as award from consumer forum.[/FONT]

Sudhi
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Old 9th August 2014, 13:26   #27
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

Hi all
The debris shown in the first picture may be of a rodent.
I once had a baby rat who had entered the car crawl up my leg during driving.
There was tickling in my shin area inside my trousers. Stopped the car, stepped out to see a baby rat run away. The rat must have been only a inch long.It must have entered the car through the AC inlet for fresh air or wires going through the dash panel as I had just installed a ICE and some wiring was done. Later got those holes sealed by SILICONE sealant.
My point is these small rats can squeeze through amazingly small holes.
So my advice to you guys is get a SILICONE sealant tube and gun from any hardware store and seal any openings on dash panel or on engine covers. SILICONE is resistant to heat up to 70 to 80 deg C but keep away from exhaust piping and the like.
I have used it in cars and also on marine diesel engines to stop oil leaks.
Also meaning no offence to members here and FORD fans, but me and my friend had a very bitter experience of owning a ICON and ESCORT respectively with lots of failures and high service and parts prices. We had decided among ourselves that even if some one gave a FORD car for free still would not like to have it.

Last edited by norhog : 9th August 2014 at 13:31.
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Old 9th August 2014, 18:56   #28
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

Don't take this nonsense from ford. I had some problems with my Ecoboost last year and due to that Engine Malfunction light kept coming up intermittently. Ford service centre couldn't even diagnose what was the problem and kept the car for a month. I advice you to do what i did. First register the complaint to Ford customer complaint number, the one which is based in Chennai. If you want the number do let me know. Also head up to your local consumer centre forum and register a complaint against ford, thats what i did and after receiving a letter form consumer forum the service centre guys finally woke up and called an engineer from Fords Plant at Chennai.
So this is the route to go according to me. The local consumer forum here in my city Ahmedabad is C.E.R.C ( Consumer Education and Research Centre) i guess it will be the same in your city.
All the best do keep us posted.

Siddhant
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Old 11th August 2014, 20:01   #29
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat View Post
Ecosport is a good posh car loaded with features / style, sold at an attractive price. To maintain profitability while offering such a good value proposition is indeed a tough task. Few buyers might experience some odd problems though the company does not intend so. Few buyers may suffer once, but by and large, the market enjoys a posh upmarket car at an attractive price. While buying such posh cars at attractive prices, one shall keep in mind the chances (risk) of stumbling upon a costly breakdown, once.

Good looks / style, good features, upmarket interiors, good FE and good reliability all cannot be had at an attractive price. I am not justifying the quality issues but while luring the market, the manufacturer also needs to protect the earnings of shareholders, employees and vendors. So the buyers too need to be wiser and have rational expectations IMO.

Shall T-BHP start recommending to keep some reserve funds aside while buying cars that seem too good for their price? Just park that money in some bank deposit.
In my opinion even the premium segment suffers from such problems. There are numerous incidents where even Audis, BMWs suffer from such isolated incidents. I guess now a days in general the quality and reliability has taken a beating.
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Old 11th August 2014, 23:49   #30
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Default Re: EcoSport Timing Belt & Engine damage - Unhappy with Elite Ford (Marathahalli)

Timing belt snapped is a fact and snapped timing belt damages engine.

Rat is just a speculation , In the images I just see frayed belt with rubber teeth ripped apart. Timing belt snapping is not such an unheard thing it happens but then manufacturers honour warranty.

Don't take the BS and get it repaired under warranty.
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