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Old 12th August 2014, 13:40   #16
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Arrow Re: 2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
How many people do 20-80 in 3rd gear or 40-100 in 4th gear?
20-80 in 3rd gear is almost like an automatic in City traffic. Third gear is the most used in the City.

Main criteria to gauge city drivability of any car, is the second and the third gear. Is it not?
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Old 12th August 2014, 13:57   #17
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Default Re: 2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look

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Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post

Polo GT TDI 0-100: 10.5
20-80(3rd): 8.3
40-100(4th): 9
I own a Polo 1.5 and I have driven almost every car on that list. I seriously believe that some of these figures are not correct. A car that makes 230 nm of torque with 90 bhp and a slick gearbox will not (and does not) take almost 14 secs to 100. Anyone who has driven the New Polo will tell you. These figures depend on lot of factors and are usually inclined towards the reviewers's convenience.
My friend Vik0728, I know that you are just showcasing the data that you saw somewhere. My request : Please don't trust these vague numbers.

Just my 2 bit !

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post

About the figures posted above, I would take it with a pinch of salt as it has lot to do with the gearing. I remember, cars like Hyundai Santro have better or comparable figures to the Honda City? Does that mean Santro is as powerful/fast than the City?The reason is simple- shorter gearing. Cars with lower power typically tend to boost performance by shorter gearing.

Another thing to remember - these tests are typically done with only the driver in place. As you fully load the car with 5 people and luggage, the lack of power will become more evident.

Last edited by mobike008 : 13th August 2014 at 12:33. Reason: Please dont quote entire long post, images, videos emoticons etc while replying. Next time pls refrain..thanks
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Old 12th August 2014, 17:47   #18
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Default Re: 2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look

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Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
Polo 1.5 TDI:0-100: 13.6[/b]
20-80(3rd):
40-100(4th):[b]
Where did you get that? According to Motorbeam, its 12.34.
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Old 12th August 2014, 18:00   #19
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Default Re: 2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look

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Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
Where did you get that? According to Motorbeam, its 12.34.
I think that was taken from Autocar India, where the author says it was measured in wet condition http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-rev...-389221,2.aspx, quoting from the article.

Quote:
The 0-100kph sprint takes 13.08 seconds, although admittedly tested in slightly wet conditions
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Old 12th August 2014, 18:09   #20
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Default Re: In-Gear Acceleration (3rd & 4th) of common hatchbacks and sedans

Guys are these speeds measured on a dynamometer? Nothing in the autocar article suggests a whee bit of a controlled condition. So I would outright reject these figures.
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Old 12th August 2014, 19:44   #21
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Default Re: In-Gear Acceleration (3rd & 4th) of common hatchbacks and sedans

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Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post

Where did you get that? According to Motorbeam, its 12.34.
Yes tbppjpr that is the reason why at the very beggining of my post I mentioned -

"Request the others to pitch in if I have missed out on any or have posted some wrong figures."

Quote:
Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post

So I would outright reject these figures.
All due respect joybhowmik but I did neither declare these as 'Final' nor submit a petition for you to reject bro !!

These numbers were obtained from various reliable sources such as Autocar, Motortrend, Motorbeam, etc.

I totally agree that these may vary and will never be completely accurate, but until me or you actually conduct these tests ourselves, we will have to go by these numbers !!
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Old 12th August 2014, 23:18   #22
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Default Re: 2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
^
Without going into further arguments, let me tell why this figures don't prove conclusively about driveabillity.

How many people do 20-80 in 3rd gear or 40-100 in 4th gear?
It may very well be that Honda IDtec is faster from 20-50 in 3rd gear but loses out on 50-80. Isn't that possible?
All depends on the overall driving experience. People change gear based on their convenience and driving style and then forms an opinion about the car's performance.
And based on my experience and most people (excluding Fiat fans or owners), Swift drives way better than the Punto. And no number can change that opinion.
Agree, I have never seen a human try and attempt 20-80 in 3rd gear, that'll be lugging the engine almost from idle in a diesel car.

Same with 40-100, doing 40 in 3rd sounds okay, but 4th is TOO MUCH IMO
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Old 13th August 2014, 00:15   #23
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Default Re: In-Gear Acceleration (3rd & 4th) of common hatchbacks and sedans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post

These numbers were obtained from various reliable sources such as Autocar, Motortrend, Motorbeam, etc.

I totally agree that these may vary and will never be completely accurate, but until me or you actually conduct these tests ourselves, we will have to go by these numbers !!
Vik0728, with all due respect: many of these media people do not actually have access to test bench and qualified vehicles to actually perform these kind of tests.
If they did - there would have been some write-up about their approach and equipment- as it would set them apart from the crowd. i.e. there would be a scientific method and rigor.
What I find amusing is your comment that we have to go by these numbers until you or I conduct the test ourselves.

To illustrate:
Hypothetically , if you and I don't know basic maths - and someone on the street tells/ shows a paper saying 2+2 = 5 - we will be forced to believe him! There my friend lies the catch. Many people to whom the equation does not matter will believe whats said. But there will be a minority who will question what's published.

I don't mean to offend you. But not everything in the media is the truth - however well presented!
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Old 13th August 2014, 00:31   #24
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Default Re: 2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Agree, I have never seen a human try and attempt 20-80 in 3rd gear, that'll be lugging the engine almost from idle in a diesel car.

Same with 40-100, doing 40 in 3rd sounds okay, but 4th is TOO MUCH IMO
Then I along with a lot of people I know must be aliens. How many humans do 0-100kmph?

In City traffic if you are doing 40kmph in 3rd and you slow down till 20kmph, there are many times when you will not downshift to 2nd and will just gently accelerate in 3rd. In a petrol car it's quite easy with no lugging and in diesel if will accelerate on it's own to prevent stalling.

Similarily you are doing 50kmph in 4th gear and you slow down a bit. Many times you won't bother to downshift and will pull in 4th.

The other case applies on highway. 3rd gear 80kmph is possible in any car as well as 4th gear 100kmph. This is like the mid range of most engines.
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Old 13th August 2014, 06:15   #25
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Default Re: In-Gear Acceleration (3rd & 4th) of common hatchbacks and sedans

40kmph in 4th gear is my Figo (remapped) is below the turbo zone and is kind of sluggish. I would any day slot it to 3rd gear and move on rather than putter around in 4th praying for the turbo to spool up. Full throttle does nothing for the next 4-5 seconds. I'm not saying the car will stall, but it's not at all an ideal speed to be in 4th gear. If performance is what 40-100 is supposed to represent, I would say it should be on 3rd gear and not 4th.
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Old 13th August 2014, 07:40   #26
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Default Re: In-Gear Acceleration (3rd & 4th) of common hatchbacks and sedans

If I am looking for quick acceleration, I will not try to do it from 20 in 3rd gear.. does not make any sense. In most cars, rpm will be below 1000 which is below the idling rpm. It is neither good for the engine not for the driving experience.

And if someone does that, he will normally not revv up to 80 in 3rd gear (given the lazy driving style) I normally shift to 3rd @40 kmph where the rpm is at 2000 in normal driving scenario. For a little bit of spirited driving, I shift much later. Of course, it depends on the car.

And I can bet one thing - if the numbers are gathered for say, 30-70 in 3rd gear or 50-80 in 4th gear (which I feel is more likely), the order might be different.

Anyways, as I said, these numbers so provide some information but is hardly a conclusive proof about the drive-ability of a car.
Imagine this - Logan Petrol is better to drive than a Honda City. LOL. Even th Mahindra/Renault fols will be shell-shocked. I bet!

Last edited by adimicra : 13th August 2014 at 07:49.
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Old 13th August 2014, 10:20   #27
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Default Re: 2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Then I along with a lot of people I know must be aliens. How many humans do 0-100kmph?

In City traffic if you are doing 40kmph in 3rd and you slow down till 20kmph, there are many times when you will not downshift to 2nd and will just gently accelerate in 3rd. In a petrol car it's quite easy with no lugging and in diesel if will accelerate on it's own to prevent stalling.

Similarily you are doing 50kmph in 4th gear and you slow down a bit. Many times you won't bother to downshift and will pull in 4th.

The other case applies on highway. 3rd gear 80kmph is possible in any car as well as 4th gear 100kmph. This is like the mid range of most engines.
Well, 0 to 100 has been used as a performance benchmark for a vehicle, its just a feel good factor before buying a car that's all. I don't think I ll ever be able to extract the 13 odd something 0-100 that is advertised for my swift anyway. To get the lowest figures for 0-100 the car is whacked brutally.

Well, I always downshift to 2nd if I reach 20 for the simple reason that I ll be lugging the engine if I don't. Cars can pick up from almost idle rpm in motion, does not mean that we should and then end up using that as a benchmark to compare roll on figures.

If I don't bother to downshift to 2nd at 20 from 3rd, the guy behind me is going to go all militant and same for 4th gear below 50 if I don't downshift to 3rd

The roll on figures of 20-80 in 3rd and 40-100 in 4th are just jokes. They would be okay for an 800 or a Santro and the likes with short gearing, but not every car's capabilities can be determined by this
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Old 13th August 2014, 10:50   #28
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Default Re: 2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Well, 0 to 100 has been used as a performance benchmark for a vehicle, its just a feel good factor before buying a car that's all. I don't think I ll ever be able to extract the 13 odd something 0-100 that is advertised for my swift anyway. To get the lowest figures for 0-100 the car is whacked brutally.

Well, I always downshift to 2nd if I reach 20 for the simple reason that I ll be lugging the engine if I don't. Cars can pick up from almost idle rpm in motion, does not mean that we should and then end up using that as a benchmark to compare roll on figures.

If I don't bother to downshift to 2nd at 20 from 3rd, the guy behind me is going to go all militant and same for 4th gear below 50 if I don't downshift to 3rd

The roll on figures of 20-80 in 3rd and 40-100 in 4th are just jokes. They would be okay for an 800 or a Santro and the likes with short gearing, but not every car's capabilities can be determined by this
I am so glad that someone understand my point of view..
And to be frank, you have put it better than I have done.. The gearing is the key here and less powerful cars with shorter gearing tend to do better in these tests.
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Old 13th August 2014, 12:39   #29
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Default Re: 2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
To get the lowest figures for 0-100 the car is whacked brutally.

The roll on figures of 20-80 in 3rd and 40-100 in 4th are just jokes. But not every car's capabilities can be determined by this
Well said buddy.

Roll-on timings need to be a bit realistic along with the right speed + gear combo to get the best out the car.

Following are the speeds that I follow in my Swift ZDi (Same for the Ritz VDi). All these shift points are when the RPM is near 2000.

0-20 kmph- 1st to 2nd gear
20-35 kmph - 2nd to 3rd gear
35-55 kmph - 3rd to 4th gear
55-65 kmph - 4th to 5th gear

At this point the engine is at its best I feel, so when such roll-on figures are requested and tested, anything thing in these speeds should keep it comfortable for the engine and driver.

Anurag.

Last edited by GTO : 13th August 2014 at 12:53. Reason: Adding note to next post
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Old 13th August 2014, 12:50   #30
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Default Re: In-Gear Acceleration (3rd & 4th) of common hatchbacks and sedans

Mod Note: This topic has been discussed enough. Thread closed.

20-80 and 40-100 is definitely not the best and only way to gauge performance. Similarly 0-100kmph gives a very good indicator on cars performance but very rarely a normal driver will try to do 0-100kmph cause of the stress it puts on the car.

20-80kmph on the other hand doesn't put much stress. In some cars it is very difficult to be in 3rd gear at 20kmph or 4th gear at 40kmph. In my Altis and Figo it is very very easy to slot into 3rd at 20kmph and 4th at 40kmph. 3rd gear till 80kmph and 4th gear till 100kmph is equally easy.

I know it is very difficult to do this in any Honda or the Swift. Even in my Ecosport it is not the optimum vs the Figo which was perfect.

The 20-80 and 40-100 is merely one of the many indicators for a cars performance in the city, semi city cycle. This shows how many gearshifts you need in city and what the gear ratios are like.

This is not like some benchmark test. It's one of combination of tests that can be done.

For a good 20-80 you need good gear ratio, low end torque and power. If you gear ratio is too short 80kmph will be outside the band, if it's too tall then initial pickup will be poor.

It's a useful number just like 0-100. 0-100 kmph is also easy to manipulate. Design the first and second gears perfectly such that 100kmph comes up in second gear. One less gear shift will improve the 0-100kmph number massively. The old Honda City V-tec could do this. But when it comes to 20-80kmph in 3rd or 40-100, every single Honda will struggle. This is seen in real life driving condition where Honda's need frequent shifts in city to stay in power band and you need to downshift more to overtake. Which means this test correlates with real world performance. In a Santro you can easily zip in 3rd and 4th and shame some large sedans.

Last edited by GTO : 13th August 2014 at 12:53. Reason: Thread closure note
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