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Old 28th August 2014, 21:07   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Doors get locked automatically after attaining a set speed. Of course this is a VCDS option and many here have activated this feature including myself for my Laura. But I am sure some cars will have this feature activated from the factory itself. Now in a fire if the electronics that operate these locks get fried then there is every possibility of the doors not opening when you pull the handles.
OT : Yes it auto locks but to open from inside you just need to pull the lever on the door(no need to unlock from central lock/unlock button), but once locked doors cannot be opened from outside.

Last edited by B747 : 28th August 2014 at 21:10.
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Old 28th August 2014, 21:28   #62
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Default Re: Skoda Laura catches fire, leaves owner physically disabled*EDIT: PICS moved to Pg

Quote:
Originally Posted by B747 View Post
OT : Yes it auto locks but to open from inside you just need to pull the lever on the door(no need to unlock from central lock/unlock button), but once locked doors cannot be opened from outside.
Sorry, even the door opening is electronically controlled in the Jetta, Laura, Passat and Superb. If the door lock actuator fails, you cannot open the door from the inside or outside. Period.

Classic instance faced by our own member iliketurtles/Karan in his brand new Jetta - the co-driver side door lock actuator failed and the door couldn't be opened from the inside nor outside. I'll let him pitch in more about this.

This is the actuator:
Name:  Door Latch.png
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And here are the innards:
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There is a DC motor, 2 spur gears and the last gear drives a rack and pinion set which converts the rotary motion to linear motion which enables/disables the lock. If the electronics fail, the doors cannot be unlocked.

PS: Picture courtesy: Google Images

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 28th August 2014 at 21:53.
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Old 31st August 2014, 11:43   #63
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Many suggest that short circuiting cause of fire is a mistake of the driver. I beg to differ. Cars have fuses which blows off when short circuit happens. Even if you assume that there is a fuel leak with high pressure and that caught the fire, how can you explain in a car just 3 to 4 months old which would not have gone for any repair other than washing and filter change, there could be fuel leak ? And if the fuse does not blow again it is a manufacturing defect.

This is poor quality manufacturing as concluded by ICICI Lombard forensic team. Period. Let us put some faith on the technical team which was hired by ICICI and recommended compensation to the policy holder. They have investigated the car and we have not. Therefore they ought to be right. At least until proved otherwise by Skoda.

Another harishv story unfolding with Skoda's inaction. Where is the much acclaimed Mr. Rao, MD of Skoda India who was supposed to solve all of Skoda India's A.S.S. problems as some members wrote on harishv's case.

Last edited by aah78 : 7th September 2014 at 04:04. Reason: Post edited.
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Old 1st September 2014, 19:09   #64
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Default Re: Skoda Laura catches fire, leaves owner physically disabled*EDIT: PICS moved to Pg

Fact is any device carrying a flammable commodity is susceptible to catch fire under the right(wrong) circumstances and as illustrated in various threads, vehicle fires are a harsh reality and not an improbability, it does not discriminate between the manufacturers or owners or their driving styles.

If you analyze the threads you will find nearly all brands have had an incident, ranging from the humble nano to the more expensive and perceived to be safe luxury brands like honda, skoda, volkswagen. And it is usually the safety feature - called central locking system that malfunctions in the melee resulting in disastrous consequences for the occupant.

Why do these fires happen? that is a good question, as one would observe from threads these are commonly attributed to

1. Addition of accessories, aftermarket kits, at times improperly wired. some of the commonly attributed perceived reasons include - recent headlight upgrades, amp upgrades, AC servicing, CNG conversion.
2. Fuel leakage from the injectors, fuel line etc.
3. Improper ventilation, certain components/areas get heated up much more than anticipated and under the right(wrong) circumstances the surrounding material smoulders and then goes up in smoke.
4.
5. more to be unearthed/discovered/analyzed.

From a manufacturer's standpoint apart from Tata(the nano episode), i do not recollect any other manufacturer who actually got into relevant detailed analysis and came out with the necessary improvements in vehicular design and occupant safety.

In India, human life is cheap and there is the ubiquitous "chalta hai/hota hai" attitude, so it would extremely optimistic to expect any corporate body (not restricted to automobile sector) to really care for the ordeal which you are going through.

So, for us who have been shortchanged by shoddy workmanship and the resulting damages, what is that we can do?

1. File a case: you will never know when it will see the light of the day and you need to have sufficient will power, energy and money to see your case through. Moreover, it gets difficult to "prove" the causal reason because in general the evidence itself is more or less is in shambles. Forensic investigation alleviates the situation but only to an extent.

2. Spread awareness: Rant about it.

3. Spread awareness: Not general slander like the nano case but based on hard facts. Was it a one off incident or a trend. Let us collect data on following lines

"Vehicle, Model, Date Of Incident, Recent Vehicle Repair History, Probable cause, Manufacturers attribution/cooperation etc"

and come out with a simple number that represents the odds of a specific vehicle model catching fire. A number like 10 out of every 1000 vehicles manufactured by brand X catch fire or suffer from y catastrophic failure will send the message across.This will not only help us consumers know what we are getting into but it will send across the right message to the erring manufacturers.

Guys think about it, this is something we@teambhp may just be able to pull it off.

PS: Doc: My sincere wishes, get well soon. Just thank your stars; It could have been much worse.
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Old 6th September 2014, 00:58   #65
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Default re: Skoda Laura catches fire, Disables owner. EDIT: Manufacturer response added -

Vineet no updates on the thread in more than a week. Can you please share the other information on the thread here. Also what is the next plan of action now?
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Old 8th September 2014, 06:24   #66
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Default re: Skoda Laura catches fire, Disables owner. EDIT: Manufacturer response added -

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Vineet no updates on the thread in more than a week. Can you please share the other information on the thread here. Also what is the next plan of action now?
I have not been posting as was suggested by my lawyers as we are in last leg of filing the case in court. Shall update once the case is filed & next steps initiated.

Hope all can understand the logic for delay, thanks in advance!
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Old 8th September 2014, 17:00   #67
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Default re: Skoda Laura catches fire, Disables owner. EDIT: Manufacturer response added -

Vineet,

First of, I'm really sorry to hear of this unfortunate fire. Equally, we're all very glad that you are safe. A car catching fire is among the worst situations a driver can ever encounter, and not everyone is lucky enough to walk away from it.

To keep this community neutral, it is important for us to hear both sides of the story. Hence, I have some questions.

First, Skoda shares its official response:

Quote:
1. SKODA AUTO India has conducted an independent inspection of the car on 9th & 10th April 2013.

2. Basis the inspection, there was no evidence that the fire was caused due to a manufacturing defect.

a. Parts from the vehicle were found missing (i.e. Cockpit frame, Positive & negative battery cables, turbo, engine wiring, Spare wheel, jack, tool kit etc.).

b. Additionally, certain wires were found cut and not burnt.

3. We have met the customer Dr V Kumar on several occasions to explain the case in detail.
For additional clarity on the matter, I would like to know the following:

1. I believe ICICI-Lombard has paid you 18 lakh rupees? As far as I know (open to correction by insurance experts), an insurance company won't pay out total loss damages if the fire was caused by a manufacturing defect. If ICICI has released a large insurance payment, that hints toward them being convinced that there is no manufacturing defect?

2. I believe your lawyer withdrew the initial complaint when a query was raised in court about the basis of the disability certificate (issued by the Safdarjung Hospital)? Why so?

3. Can you please outline exactly the physical damage you have suffered? Is it true that a report states 'minor injury'? What exactly is the disability caused by this incident?

4. Comprehensive automotive insurance also covers injury. Has ICICI-Lombard reimbursed you for personal injury? Did you make any personal injury claim to them?

5. What is the exact amount that you are claiming from Skoda?

6. How & why did parts go missing in your car when it was parked in your compound?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vineetkr View Post
ICICI Lombard on their own conducted a forensic evaluation to the cause of the incident and their report clearly elaborates the manufacturing fault
Can you please share this report with the community? If the file is too big, you can email it to me and we'll figure out a way to upload it.
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Old 8th September 2014, 18:48   #68
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Vineet,

First of, I'm really sorry to hear of this unfortunate fire. Equally, we're all very glad that you are safe. A car catching fire is among the worst situations a driver can ever encounter, and not everyone is lucky enough to walk away from it.

To keep this community neutral, it is important for us to hear both sides of the story. Hence, I have some questions.

First, Skoda shares its official response:



For additional clarity on the matter, I would like to know the following:

1. I believe ICICI-Lombard has paid you 18 lakh rupees? As far as I know (open to correction by insurance experts), an insurance company won't pay out total loss damages if the fire was caused by a manufacturing defect. If ICICI has released a large insurance payment, that hints toward them being convinced that there is no manufacturing defect?

2. I believe your lawyer withdrew the initial complaint when a query was raised in court about the basis of the disability certificate (issued by the Safdarjung Hospital)? Why so?

3. Can you please outline exactly the physical damage you have suffered? Is it true that a report states 'minor injury'? What exactly is the disability caused by this incident?

4. Comprehensive automotive insurance also covers injury. Has ICICI-Lombard reimbursed you for personal injury? Did you make any personal injury claim to them?

5. What is the exact amount that you are claiming from Skoda?

6. How & why did parts go missing in your car when it was parked in your compound?



Can you please share this report with the community? If the file is too big, you can email it to me and we'll figure out a way to upload it.
GTO, i can answer all your queries in detail but as i stated my lawyer has advised me to refrain for a few days as we are in final steps of filing the suit.

As far as ICICI paying the claim, they refused the same initially sighting manufacturers defect. It was upon my escalating the case to Insurance regulator authority that they had to pay. Note - Insurance cannot deny a claim for insurance coverage even if its a manufacturing defect.

Lastly the version you are stating is version what Skoda is using to side step the issue. There are no parts missing from the vehicle & it is in a guarded complex hence this version which by the way came only after 10 months though a generic mail is a lawyer fed version to cover their faults.

Rest I shall share in due course as whatever i have stated, i have physical evidence of the same & am not bluffing in air like skoda.

Additionally GTO; i am told insurance co will not pay one rupee incase they are not convinced that it was a genuine defect & not due to customer fault. As per the agreement with Insurance CO they only cover vehicle in as in state (as being brand new). This you can validate through your insurance experts. As far as injury is concerned it is related to the 2 fingers & thumb of right hand not being fully functional ever in life. Please take your logical call to summarise will you account for it as major or minor incase of a right handed professional!! My lawyer withdrew the case not because of query but because firstly i was not mentally & physically in state (as travelling) and also there was a tactical change that was planned in next steps to counter Skoda.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 9th September 2014 at 18:36.
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Old 8th September 2014, 19:42   #69
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Default re: Skoda Laura catches fire, Disables owner. EDIT: Manufacturer response added -

Quote:
Originally Posted by vineetkr View Post
GTO, i can answer all your queries in detail but as i stated my lawyer has advised me to refrain for a few days as we are in final steps of filing the suit.
Thanks Vineet. Appreciate that. Please let us know by which date you can provide us with more details. It is incredibly important for you to do so as we're unclear about some areas.

I understand some of the documentation might be too sensitive to put up in the public domain. If that is the case, you can email it to me for verification (email id in my signature).

The documents that we'd like to see are listed in my previous post.

Quote:
pay. Note - Insurance cannot deny a claim for insurance coverage even if its a manufacturing defect.
Hmmm. I'm still not sure of that, and will wait until an insurance expert BHPian confirms the same. I don't see the logic in the insurance company paying for a manufacturing defect.

Quote:
Lastly the version you are stating is version what Skoda is using to side step the issue.
Like I said, it's important for the community to hear both sides of the story.

Quote:
There are no parts missing from the vehicle & it is in a guarded complex
Got it. We'll take your word for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vineetkr View Post
As far as injury is concerned it is related to the 2 fingers & thumb of right hand not being fully functional ever in life.
Truly sorry to hear about that. I hope you are able to find a solution to this in the near future.

Quote:
My lawyer withdrew the case not because of query
I've taken a look at the order and it clearly states (exact quote):

Quote:
BEFORE:

HON'BLE MR. JUSTICE AJIT BHARIHOKE, PRESIDING MEMBER

HON'BLE MR. SURESH CHANDRA, MEMBER

For the Complainant : MR. S. K. TANDON,

For the Opp.Party :

Dated : 09 Jan 2014

When query was raised what is the basis of the disability certificate issued by the Safdarjung Hospital, learned counsel for the complainant sought to withdraw the complaint with liberty to file fresh complaint on same cause of action giving detailed facts. Liberty granted. Complaint is dismissed as withdrawn.

Last edited by ajmat : 9th September 2014 at 08:36. Reason: You called him Vivek when his name is Vineet!
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Old 8th September 2014, 20:12   #70
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Default re: Skoda Laura catches fire, Disables owner. EDIT: Manufacturer response added -

Quote:
Parts from the vehicle were found missing (i.e. Cockpit frame, Positive & negative battery cables, turbo, engine wiring, Spare wheel, jack, tool kit etc
Quote:
Additionally, certain wires were found cut and not burnt.
Going by pictures on page 1 , I seriously doubt that such analysis can be done . Looking at the vehicle where Tires , door handles , fuel lid cover are burnt - how can someone say that wires were cut & not burnt and Positive & negative battery cables & engine wiring went missing - how can these possibly survive such fire ?
Quote:
When query was raised what is the basis of the disability certificate issued by the Safdarjung Hospital, learned counsel for the complainant sought to withdraw the complaint with liberty to file fresh complaint on same cause of action giving detailed facts. Liberty granted. Complaint is dismissed as withdrawn
Is this from the case against Skoda or Insurance company ? Going by the language it appears that complainant either wants to pursue this separately or had some deficiencies .

Last edited by Turbanator : 8th September 2014 at 20:20.
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Old 8th September 2014, 20:32   #71
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Default re: Skoda Laura catches fire, Disables owner. EDIT: Manufacturer response added -

Really sorry to hear your story Vineet.
Wish you all the very best in your fight.
It is indeed a major loss if you are not able to use your prime fingers which are obviously the tools of your trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I've taken a look at the order and it clearly states (exact quote):
From my understanding as a student of Law, each word in the complaint has its significance. The statement 'with liberty to file fresh complaint on same cause of action giving detailed facts' neither indicates that Vineet has not been disabled by the accident nor refutes the claim.
Also, from whatever has been presented to us here, it indicates that the counsel has sought further evidence, which is highly possible, considering some basic errors done by our Govt Officials while creating such certificates.

If this issue is under sub-judice, I believe this thread should be locked until the case has been presented before the magistrate and we have updates which will not prove detrimental to the case.

Also, whether it was a rat chewing a wire or a genuine mechanical defect, the fact remains that Vineet has suffered considerable losses which has driven him to pursue the issue via legal channels.

Last edited by Stratos : 9th September 2014 at 09:31. Reason: Corrected the name from Vivek to Vineet.
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Old 8th September 2014, 22:48   #72
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Sorry but unable to digest and not able to resist to write the fact that GTO is doubting
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Old 8th September 2014, 23:28   #73
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Default re: Skoda Laura catches fire, Disables owner. EDIT: Manufacturer response added -

Quote:
Originally Posted by srameshdelhi View Post
Sorry but unable to digest and not able to resist to write the fact that GTO is doubting
GTO is doubting because it is about the Forum's reputation too. There have been few instances in the past where members have posted a thread citing gross manufacturing defects in there new cars and they later turned out to be false or grossly over stated. So hence it is not really doubting but just verifying the facts in order to be able to help the OP in a much better and informed way.
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Old 9th September 2014, 00:21   #74
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Default re: Skoda Laura catches fire, Disables owner. EDIT: Manufacturer response added -

Sorry but doubting is not the correct word to be used in this context.

It is called fact finding.
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Old 9th September 2014, 06:30   #75
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Originally Posted by srameshdelhi View Post
Sorry but unable to digest and not able to resist to write the fact that GTO is doubting

What makes this forum unique is the focus on quality, and permitting diversity of views. Giving people a chance to present their perspectives, and rebut allegations is definitely a part of that. The OP seems to have taken GTO's comments in the right spirit, and hopefully, we will all get to know the facts over a period of time. We cannot expect the OP to post matters that hurt his legal position. But as a responsible forum, we have to ask the right questions, not just of car manufacturers but also of members who face issues. Let's remember that one of the purposes of this forum is to help members avoid problems - and any data that helps establish the root cause of problems contributes to that.
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