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Old 13th March 2015, 14:31   #16
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Default Re: Engineer 3D prints working transmission for Toyota Engine

I think we should reach a stage where you get the design details and get the print done yourself. You can have a say on the quality also for most of plastic parts.
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Old 13th March 2015, 15:19   #17
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Default Re: Engineer 3D prints working transmission for Toyota Engine

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
I think we should reach a stage where you get the design details and get the print done yourself. You can have a say on the quality also for most of plastic parts.
The major impediment towards 3d printing competing with conventional mass manufacturing methods is not the 3d printing technology but the cost of raw material. Today, it is possible to 3d print 100% functional parts in metal but the cost of raw metal powder is 30 times that of metal bars/ingots. I'm not sure of the raw material cost of plastics but it is substantially more than what is used for injection molding. While economies of scale will bring down the raw material cost to some extent, we will need a radically different way to mass produce those raw materials to make them competitive.

Last edited by Astleviz : 13th March 2015 at 15:21.
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Old 15th March 2015, 17:19   #18
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Default Re: 3D-Printing of Cars & automotive parts

Cost of raw materials is high as they are not manufactured for newer digital fabrication methods but aimed at conventional subtractive machining. Innovations are emerging which will supply raw materials suitable for 3d printing at affordable prices. Once processes like FCC Cambride , development of printers which take granules, material innovations in graphene, optics, conductive electronics, reinforced composites, composites and nanocellulose attain scale 3d printing will be ubiquitous.
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Old 16th March 2015, 12:24   #19
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Default Re: 3D-Printing of Cars & automotive parts

Came across this today , complete working transmission which is 3D printed.

"Eric Harrell printed this working 5 speed manual transmission modeled after a W56 Toyota transmission. It's a great learning tool, but we'll probably never get the hang of driving stick."

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Old 18th March 2015, 14:18   #20
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Default Re: 3D-Printing of Cars & automotive parts

Caron3D, startup has developed a breakthrough 3d printing technology. They have also revealed that automotive companies are included as their clients.
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Old 15th May 2015, 15:20   #21
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Default 3D printed engines are coming : The end for manufacturing as we know it?

GE is 3D printing a Jet engine!
http://www.computerworld.com/article...et-engine.html

This is really revolutionary
The printer is a metal printer which can do Titanium too!
http://gpiprototype.com/services/eosintm270.html

I guess its only a matter of time this trickles down to automotive parts. Even if engines may be a bit far away, the ability to 3D print components means amazing tolerances are possible, and cost of manufacturing starts getting disjointed from cost of labor.
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Old 15th May 2015, 16:20   #22
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Default Re: 3D printed engines are coming : The end for manufacturing as we know it?

Revolutionary. Looks like 3D printing is the next big thing.

Also means that we don't have to depend on the mercy of the manufacturer for spares - at least body panels for the time being.

Thanks.
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Old 15th May 2015, 16:44   #23
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Default Re: 3D printed engines are coming : The end for manufacturing as we know it?

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I guess its only a matter of time this trickles down to automotive parts.
Check this out. KOENIGSEGG has 3D printed the turbo for their One:1.

Even the moving parts were printed inside the enclosed chamber!

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Old 15th May 2015, 17:11   #24
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Default Re: 3D printed engines are coming : The end for manufacturing as we know it?

Engine components - cast and forged - would be quite difficult to imagine being replaced by 3D printing, till the cost of producing these per unit rivals that of conventional manufacturing. The key issue here is production cost per unit, and it might take decades for price parity to be achieved.

The 2nd issue would be availability of 'inks' with materials suitable for high-stress duty in automotive engine applications. Without that, 3D is just a viable 'deposition' technology for all practical purposes. One has to consider consider the cost aspect too. If the most common materials - steel and aluminium - turn out to be unsuitable for printing, the alternatives may be prohibitively expensive for mass production.

Another issue with 'ink' based deposition would be post-processing requirements - heat treatment, burr / flash removal, hardening, polishing etc., all of which will require new equipment.

Despite the above, DIY creation of spares seems to be more viable in the foreseeable future. Not sure, but doesn't Jay Leno already do it in a limited way for his collection of classics? Of course, for him it would be on a "at any cost" basis. For the average man on the street that may not be viable.

The main issue with DIY creation of spares would be either availability of the 3D drawing of the spare (not sure if manufacturers will be magnanimous, since spares are a valid revenue channel), or availability of scanning equipment suitable (and accurate enough) for capturing the shape and dimensions of the part to be (re-)created. And then comes the cost of ink!

When I started with computing, 64/128KB memory and 128KB floppies was the max one could visualize working with. When Hard disks came along, we used to think it will take a lifetime to fill those 10MB HDDs (we were master misers of space conservation). But then things followed Moore's Law, and today we look down upon any mobile which has less than 1GB RAM, or at a PC which has less than 8GB RAM and 1TB HDD. That's just ONE generation worth of progress. Project that to the subject of 3D printing, I would hazard a guess that it will take less than that for 3D printing to be viable (from economics and practicality points of view) for at least spares.

OK, so which is the cheapest and best portable 3D scanner in the market today? I need to replace some stuff in my Safari. Spares stuff that are perpetually not in stock!
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Old 15th May 2015, 17:35   #25
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Default Re: 3D printed engines are coming : The end for manufacturing as we know it?

3D printing is a reality, I might have shared this link before:

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32597809

Here is also an interesting thought about the factory of the future from Airbus perspective.

http://www.airbusgroup.com/int/en/st...he-future.html

Jeroen
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Old 15th May 2015, 18:04   #26
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Default Re: 3D printed engines are coming : The end for manufacturing as we know it?

Good idea, but hard to believe that 3D printing will replace engine manufacturing anytime soon!

Although, it will be a smashing idea to be able to fabricate a component for ones car using 3D printing!

I'm quite desperate to get a center console for my Optra, but it's not available anywhere
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Old 15th May 2015, 18:17   #27
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Default Re: 3D printed engines are coming : The end for manufacturing as we know it?

Moving and critical components may take a while to go commercial for obvious reasons mentioned above (cost, materials, tolerance matching etc.), but this could revolutionize the cosmetic components space in a relatively shorter time frame.

Imagine not having to depend on the OEM supplier for anything except a spec-sheet to print whatever cosmetic component you want

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 15th May 2015 at 18:19.
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Old 16th May 2015, 07:46   #28
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Default Re: 3D printed engines are coming : The end for manufacturing as we know it?

I had a chance to be close to one such printer for about 7 months and have seen the components being printed, I believe its a long way still when engine components can be printed for application, there has been lot of advance in technology for these laser operated printers but the cost is huge. The positioning of the part to be printed and the finishing process is very complicated at this stage if it has to be applied for automotive industry.
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Old 17th May 2015, 11:10   #29
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Default Re: 3D-Printing of Cars & automotive parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Engine components - cast and forged - would be quite difficult to imagine being replaced by 3D printing, till the cost of producing these per unit rivals that of conventional manufacturing.

The 2nd issue would be availability of 'inks' with materials suitable for high-stress duty in automotive engine applications. If the most common materials - steel and aluminium - turn out to be unsuitable for printing, the alternatives may be prohibitively expensive for mass production.

Another issue with 'ink' based deposition would be post-processing requirements - heat treatment, burr / flash removal, hardening, polishing etc., all of which will require new equipment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
A couple of friends and me invested in a small 3D printer about a year ago.

So far the results have been mixed. So for instance, we managed to print a clip for retaining door cards. Although the shape is fine, we found that we just could not get the elasticity required for this part. Its easy to produce very simple things, like spacers etc.
Jeroen
Very true. Since 3D printing is a layer-by-layer deposition process, it cannot induce the properties, which are characteristic of a casting or a forging or a hot / cold rolling. The bond between molecules of a cast or forged component is formed in hot / molten state and this imparts strength and directional properties. The bond between the layers of a 3D printed parts will not be as good as the bond within the layers. So, the layer interfaces will be potential origins of the fatigue cracks.

Besides the shape, size and tolerance, there is another characteristic of a part: surface finish. In metal parts, this has to be achieved by special operations like grinding, honing, shaving etc. In plastic parts, this needs to be achieved by surface finish of the dies and process parameters like molten plastic temperature, cooling rate etc. Fuctional performance and life of the part is dependant on surface finish and this cannot be obtained simply with deposition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Moving and critical components may take a while to go commercial for obvious reasons mentioned above (cost, materials, tolerance matching etc.), but this could revolutionize the cosmetic components space in a relatively shorter time frame.
And hence, I concur Chetan_Rao's opinion that 3D printing could be used only for cosmetic parts; with original or modified designs.
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Old 27th May 2015, 13:52   #30
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Default Re: 3D-Printing of Cars & automotive parts

I have a business idea related to 3D printing.
Why not buy a 3D printer and approach all luxury & premium car makers that we will support their service centres with quick spare part availability by 3D printing them.
Few pointers for success:
1)As we will be located in India, we can serve the growing Indian market quickly than importing and cost effectively than air-lifting components.
2) Also, as we will approach multiple manufacturers, the amortization cost will be reduced dramatically for all of them.
3) The manufacturer can directly send the 3D CATIA/ProE data to the 3D printer and then the file will be deleted to ensure secrecy and protection of design.
4) Quick service support (and better TAT) will also ensure better sales for the premium OEMs as they can afford to expand the dealership network without worrying too much of developing a supply chain for service network

Your inputs sought to refine/improve the business model. Also in case any of you guys find my idea brilliant and fundable, and you think you can start this business, please do so and just a simple Thank You will be sufficient
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