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Old 14th October 2014, 18:06   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
It does look like the air intake opening to me. It is taking a bend from below the battery. When did you take the delivery of your car?
I too think it's the air intake that goes under the battery to the filter that's behind the battery.

I took delivery of my car on July 2013, I booked it two days after launch so I guess mine is one of the initial batches.

For your information my air intake hose was changed by Honda. I saw them changing it, the old and new hose looked the same. I did hear that the old hose had some thing to do with holes in it, not sure if they were intended or unintended.

Also I think a lot of people are still with the assumption that the intake is somewhere at the bottom. I agree we need more pictures not only from amaze owners but also from other cars as well.

Last edited by Whiplash7 : 14th October 2014 at 18:21.
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Old 15th October 2014, 19:08   #77
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
We have several owners of the i-DTEC Amaze on the forum and not a single snap of the air intake duct from the early models! Come on guys, pop up your Amaze's bonnet, click a few snaps and upload them please.
Wish granted!! I think I may have found the location of the mysterious "hose". I popped the bonnet of my Amaze and dropped by smartphone and recorded a video which shows what looks like the hose. I have captured the screen and uploading it here.

Also, I have done the same thing for a 2014 Amaze iDtec of my colleague and uploading the photo.

Going back to the photo shared by Whiplash, the air intake pipe is indeed at the higher level, however, when I traced the pipe, there is a mysterious opening at the bottom of the pipe which almost touches the engine protection cover at the bottom.

Photo of the engine bay.
Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking-enginebay.jpg

When I traced down the pipe from the engine bay and when I reached the end of the pipe, I found a mysterious opening, which I believe is the hose. Here is the picture of the hose from my car (Sep-2013 model). It is almost clear that there is a big opening and every chance that water can get sucked into it.
Name:  Amaze_2013_MyCar.png
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Here is the picture from Sep-2014 model (thanks to my colleague). As you can see clearly, there is a "clip" kind of closure attached to the hose, which possibly blocks the entry of water into the pipe. It appears that the 2014 models indeed come with factory-fitted solution for this issue.
Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking-amaze_2014.png

Based on this find, I am taking my car back to service center to get this hose checked and closed. Meantime, it would be great, if anyone owning 2013 model can attempt to take a picture/video of this hose and post here.
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Old 15th October 2014, 19:33   #78
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazeGuru View Post
the air intake pipe is indeed at the higher level, however, when I traced the pipe, there is a mysterious opening at the bottom of the pipe which almost touches the engine protection cover at the bottom.
I wonder if this is some kind of provision for an air intake resonator? The location of this opening between the air intake and before the air filter makes me think so, since the Getz has a similar arrangement as can be seen in this post below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by K a s h View Post
In the intake plumbing, I found that there is a additional fitment that is connected to this main intake plumbing. This (see red circle in picture) is attached to a opening (~2 inch diameter) in the main plumbing and this box has a very small hole at the bottom. I assume this is for draining water that had been sucked in through the main intake. Its just has a rubber beading holding it to the main plumbing and a bolt to fix it to the chassis.

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Old 15th October 2014, 20:45   #79
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Insurance coverage from Honda for Hydrostatic Lock

I received this from a friend today. Existing owners can cross check / confirm this with dealerships. I have not verified this letter / offer.(I don't own a Honda).

The letter says the coverage is effective 7th August. Would be a good idea to check if the coverage has a retrospective clause.

Thanks,

Amogh

Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking-img20141015wa0029.jpg
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Old 15th October 2014, 22:01   #80
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

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Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar View Post
Insurance coverage from Honda for Hydrostatic Lock

Attachment 1299383
Thanks Amogh,

I still feel this is a cool rip off of 10-12 k per year for the customer. Iam sure many would agree with me if the design is faulty then it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to acknowledge the same and fix it rather than providing add on's from the in house insurance company and stick some " Excellent Customer Service " or " Raise the bar " tags on this disguise (if at all it is).

Cheers,
pdma.
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Old 15th October 2014, 22:33   #81
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Is Honda agreeing that there is a design flaw resulting in hydrolock by introducing this addon cover? Won't Honda do a better job by fixing the flaw than provide such addon covers and issue a recall?

Until the laws strengthen here, manufacturers here have a field day with such stuff at the cost of the customer.

Last edited by nkrishnap : 15th October 2014 at 22:37.
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Old 15th October 2014, 22:39   #82
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

I fail to understand. How did the insurance company agreed for such a cover? Also, is this really legal to provide a car specific cover for a known issue?
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Old 16th October 2014, 00:20   #83
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar View Post
Insurance coverage from Honda for Hydrostatic Lock
Now, that's quite a find. Thank You for sharing with us here. Any idea for which all cars its applicable? All i-DTECs?

So, Honda acknowledge that hydrostatic locking is an issue. That's a good start. They should really announce a public recall before more engines are spoiled and more customers loose money and faith.

Honda (Aditya Awasthi from CRM) wrote back to my cousin stating they are still studying the issue and pointed back to the dealer. I have asked him to followup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
I fail to understand. How did the insurance company agreed for such a cover?
Yes, its puzzling. Maybe the projections show that total claims will be less than the total premium received.

Though, I really don't know how they are going to sell this optional add on insurance product to a new customer who just bought his first Diesel Honda. Hydrostatic Lock Cover, a fancy name too.
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Old 16th October 2014, 09:07   #84
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
I fail to understand. How did the insurance company agreed for such a cover? Also, is this really legal to provide a car specific cover for a known issue?
Why should they not agree?? They are charging you money for it. You can buy insurance cover for any risk in this world.

Hydrostatic lock is a risk that can happen in any car. Today insurance companies have so many add on covers that you as a buyer have a choice to purchase. Honda has cleverly suggested owners to 'buy' this cover. So it is the owner that is bearing the cost of insurance cover, not HONDA!!
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Old 16th October 2014, 12:17   #85
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

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Originally Posted by pdma View Post
Thanks Amogh,

I still feel this is a cool rip off of 10-12 k per year for the customer. Iam sure many would agree with me if the design is faulty then it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to acknowledge the same and fix it rather than providing add on's from the in house insurance company and stick some " Excellent Customer Service " or " Raise the bar " tags on this disguise (if at all it is).

Cheers,
pdma.
Correction. 0.1% of 10-12 lacs would be 1000-1200 Rs and not 10-12K...
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Old 16th October 2014, 12:33   #86
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So Honda finally acknowledges the issue. And chooses to 'raise the bar' and 'strengthen the product benefit' by introducing an optional insurance component? So that owners pay up premium every year to enable insurance companies to share costs incase the issue occurs? What about the agony and the inconvenience the owners are put through?

What about existing cases of damage? Honda should have taken full responsibility and paid up the costs to ensure customer satisfaction IMO.

Previously we've seen people paying a premium for Honda quality. Now it seems Honda wants them to pay premiums every year for their lack of quality!
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Old 16th October 2014, 13:45   #87
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Unacceptable. Very wise on Honda's part to rip off the customer but it would have been better to recall the affected cars and improve the design. People pay through their nose for Honda's reliability but if this is the treatment they will get for the premium, many will like to spend their money elsewhere than on the 'straight' H badge.

Last edited by saket77 : 16th October 2014 at 13:46.
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Old 16th October 2014, 14:22   #88
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Totally unacceptable IMHO. Instead of a general recall, this is what the great minds at Honda India came up with? This is like saying that we agree that there is an enhanced risk of hydrolocking but hey, WE are not going to do anything about it!

Honda owners should carry out a 'class action' and point this out to our regulators - this is complete nonsense.
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Old 16th October 2014, 14:31   #89
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Come on guys! I think we are unnecessarily getting critical of Honda. This insurance cover for engine damage due to water ingress, is available for all the cars for an extra premium or under zero depreciation policy, we just need to read the fine print. Bajaj Allianz am sure does provide this cover under flexible plan cover.
Check out this link:
http://www.bajajallianz.com/Corp/mot...-insurance.jsp
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Old 16th October 2014, 16:05   #90
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdma View Post

I still feel this is a cool rip off of 10-12 k per year for the customer.
I think you meant 1000-1200 Rs (12lacs x (0.1/100)) which doesn't seem to be too much. If you live in an area with pronounced water logging, it is indeed helpful that the they introduced some plan whether or not it is a design fault.

Hydrostatic locks could happen to any diesel car, why blame Honda or just the Amaze. Mumbai has one of the worst monsoon rains combined with bad roads, i would have expected a lot more complaints on the forum or else where against such a thing.
As a few people said, they already seem to have addressed the issue, try and raise the matter with the dealer / Honda for cars which do not have the re-positioned intake.

The petrol seems to be immune to this, i have first hand experience of it when i drove through at least 2 - 2.5 feet of water in a narrow lane with the car almost floating away when a truck passed me.
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