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Old 16th October 2014, 18:12   #91
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Having owned one of these " defective " models ( April 2013 ) since the last 1.5 years and 27K kms , I can say I have never had any issues with driving over water logged streets. 2 weeks back , while driving from Mangalore , we drove through some of the heaviest rains I have ever seen in all these years of driving. At some places , the 4 lanes road had water upto the divider top ( so much that I could feel the car rocking with the water waves ). We drove over 200 kms from Sakleshpur to Kunigal in these conditions ! I don't have any concerns over the reliability aspect here.

This part in question had been replaced in my car as part of the recalls

About the insurance top up , I don't understand why is there so much noise on this ! This has been an age old practice that's been in place for all car makers !

I am not a Honda fan at all and I don't think I will buy a Honda car again in India , but let's not simply target them just because we saw someone reporting a hydrolocking incident. No matter what these owners say , none of us know the actual story. We have read about engine failures with almost all car makers here , so what's the bid deal here in this case about Honda. They have sold 100 K cars and how many incidents of hydrolocking have we heard ?

So many people look upto our forum for carbuying advice , so let's be more responsible before we pass judgments about any car maker.




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Old 16th October 2014, 22:46   #92
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by car-dent View Post
Correction. 0.1% of 10-12 lacs would be 1000-1200 Rs and not 10-12K...
Thank You car-dent for pointing out and correcting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaudh2s View Post
Come on guys! I think we are unnecessarily getting critical of Honda. This insurance cover for engine damage due to water ingress, is available for all the cars for an extra premium or under zero depreciation policy, we just need to read the fine print.
Quote:
Originally Posted by srs_shetty87 View Post
I think you meant 1000-1200 Rs (12lacs x (0.1/100)) which doesn't seem to be too much. If you live in an area with pronounced water logging, it is indeed helpful that the they introduced some plan whether or not it is a design fault.
On second thoughts I agree with both chaudh2s & srs_ shetty here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
Having owned one of these " defective " models ( April 2013 ) since the last 1.5 years and 27K kms , I can say I have never had any issues with driving over water logged streets. 2 weeks back , while driving from Mangalore , we drove through some of the heaviest rains I have ever seen in all these years of driving.

This part in question had been replaced in my car as part of the recalls
Thank you Satya,

As most of the owners have already shared thier experience on the cars and the replacement done by Honda should be pretty good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
Does that mean the current batches are fine? Mine is july 2014 City
Hello Harry,

I know that your car is due for servicing from the last update I know. Kindly let us know if you visited the service center , if yes please let us know if you had a chance to check with the folks there on where the opening of the intake is on your car.
If you are yet to visit the service center it would be a good idea to get a few pictures if possible when the car goes on the ramp and post them for benefit for all of us.

In the meanwhile I received this response from Honda today.

Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking-1e9e7c7bfbcb5e80.jpg

Cheers,
pdma
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Old 17th October 2014, 07:52   #93
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Hello all,

I managed to snap my neighbours Honda amaze.
And check out in the snap. What it looks like air intake is placed so low, almost to the level below license plate.. Probably that explains water ingress intro the engine.

If it is AC fresh air intake. Then I guess it is another flaw...u will n be directly sucking exhaust from other cars.
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Old 17th October 2014, 08:53   #94
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
Having owned one of these " defective " models ( April 2013 ) since the last 1.5 years and 27K kms , I can say I have never had any issues with driving over water logged streets. ...... I don't have any concerns over the reliability aspect here.

This part in question had been replaced in my car as part of the recalls

I am not a Honda fan at all and I don't think I will buy a Honda car again in India , but let's not simply target them just because we saw someone reporting a hydrolocking incident. No matter what these owners say , none of us know the actual story. We have read about engine failures with almost all car makers here , so what's the bid deal here in this case about Honda. They have sold 100 K cars and how many incidents of hydrolocking have we heard ?
The actual story is that someone I know lost a brand new car to service for two months and about INR 30k in repair cost. That's the reason this 'story' is here. And I can vouch for the authenticity of it.

Why is that your car doesn't have any problems in heavy rain or water logging? The answer is simple and in your post itself.

Quoting you again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
This part in question had been replaced in my car as part of the recalls
Why is that this "recall" was never extended proactively to my cousin' car? Why is that majority over here don't know about this "recall"? Why isn't Honda making sure all customers and cars that could fall prey to the issue here isn't covered under this "recall"?

Manufacturers make mistakes. That's not a new thing. But they should own it up and correct it proactively before customers are affected. That didn't happen with Honda here.

I recommended the Amaze Diesel to my cousin among other cars in that price range and that too a model with all safety kit. In fact I told him to wait for the yet to be launched Honda City. And I felt bad when I got to hear from him about this. That's why emotions are running a bit high. This story got to reach more people and none should lose time and money for this again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdma View Post
In the meanwhile I received this response from Honda today.
Does above the level of the tyre mean the lower lip of the alloy or rim? The picture of the car in the first post is when the car was waiting for the tow truck waiting to be rescued. The water level is very evident from that pic. And I repeat many cars crossed that road that day with no problems.

Maybe the new cars don't have this issue. And a large majority got this fixed during the hush hush recall that happened. I certainly hope so. I still don't know why Honda is in denial mode though.
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Old 17th October 2014, 09:35   #95
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by navrddy View Post
Hello all,

I managed to snap my neighbours Honda amaze.
And check out in the snap. What it looks like air intake is placed so low, almost to the level below license plate.. Probably that explains water ingress intro the engine.

If it is AC fresh air intake. Then I guess it is another flaw...u will n be directly sucking exhaust from other cars.
Well it has got to be the intercooler - and that is not a design flaw as most cars have it here. I am sure the air 'intake' would be placed much higher. One of the common causes for hydro-lock is water entry through the holes in the Air filter and cleaner assembly. Why exactly does this need such holes? for NVH reasons, certain air boxes need these holes to avoid the boom noise during acceleration.

While I haven't explored the Honda Amaze much, I have worked as an air intake system engineer for quite sometime, and this is from my experience !
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Old 17th October 2014, 11:30   #96
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

It would be interesting to know if Honda conducts water wading tests on its cars and the details of it. I know that Ford, Bajaj and others do such test to ensure hassle free operation during the Indian monsoons.
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Old 17th October 2014, 12:58   #97
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdma View Post
In the meanwhile I received this response from Honda today.

Attachment 1299823

Cheers,
pdma
I had mailed Honda shortly after the Amaze launch to ask for the crash test data/rating/score for the Amaze. The reply i received from Honda said that the Amaze had been crash tested but they didn't share where or what the rating was or how the occupants fared. Without any such relevant details of the test without which their email reply was pretty much useless.

I see a similar pattern in their reply above, its basically useless. From the picture posted by deetjohn it is visible that the water level was not even upto the wheels centreline. So it doesn't make sense when they say that the car had been driven through wheel deep water.

No excuses Honda, you clearly didn't pay enough attention here.
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Old 17th October 2014, 13:41   #98
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I want to know how many such cases has been reported in City. All I can see is that one off case with no one else claiming such an issue in City. If it's just one off case then the thread title should be amended to only Amaze but if there are other cases then it's a concern in City too which I can't see right now.
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Old 24th October 2014, 17:21   #99
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

B Gobinath shares the following response he got from Honda, after enquiring about the hydrolock issue. At a time when they should be acknowledging the issue and carrying out a recall, this lame reply is surprising!

Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking-honda2.jpg
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Old 29th October 2014, 18:53   #100
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking


This post is little off topic. However, I feel this needs to get out there and hope that Honda reads it.

Back in the late 90s, when Honda City was launched in India (1997-98?), I remember visiting the Honda showroom in Pune with my parents. We were looking to upgrade from our humble Maruti Omni. I distinctly remember the treatment they gave us - appalling would be stating it mildly. Mind you, we were ready with cash payment, if we liked the car.

The car, yes we did like it. That kind of engine refinement was unheard of (had not tried the Maruti Baleno until then). But the deal was off purely because of the customer experience. Totally unacceptable. Wasn't even offered test drive. They just started the car right inside the showroom, after dad insisted that at least a customer deserved to see what the car feels like, before the decision is made. Was this kind of treatment because we were dressed too casually? Don't know. But that showroom lost a ready customer.
A few weeks later, dad happened to visit Mumbai on business. Mom and I tagged along as I had school holidays. As we had some spare time on Saturday (distinctly remember as those days dad used to get half days on Saturday), we visited a Honda showroom, hoping to have a different experience. Sadly, the experience was not great, and definitely not customer friendly. That is the day we decided, if these sales guys are so snooty, how will their after sales experience be? So, off goes the City.

Somewhere in 2010, we visited Honda showroom in Pune again. This time, I was looking for the Jazz. The customer experience was very good. A complete opposite to what we experienced in the late 90s.

If one was to compare the market scenario and available options from the 90s to 2010-14, obviously we are comparing apples to oranges. Same market, but the scene is so very different. I might also dare say that Honda realized that if it wants to stay in India, it better get its act together and be more customer friendly. Remember, in the 90's Honda was considered to be a premium brand (adding to the snobbish value) over any other cars manufactured in India (Mercedes being an exception, which is way above in the segment). The BMWs, Audis, etc were imported thereby attracting the heavy custom duty.

However, looking at the lame replies that deetjohn and B Gobinath got from Honda customer service, I am starting to wonder if Honda is going back the same road. Honda released the diesel engine and steadily regained its lost market, making it the third in the list of market share.

So, the question, has Honda's recent comeback success gone to their heads? I seriously hope not, but if yes, then this is a wake up call. In the current market scenario, where every manufacturer of the world wants a share in our market, Honda will not be lucky to easily make a come back if they slide down the road for such bad experiences.
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Old 30th October 2014, 18:17   #101
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Apparently, Honda Assure is offering a Hydrostatic lock protection since Aug'14, to provide insurance against any such problems..

Honda Assure Bulletin (Aug'14).pdf

This was sent by the dealer's insurance team.
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Old 30th October 2014, 18:49   #102
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

More than a design flaw, it's a packaging flaw caused by increasingly crowded engine bays in our small(er) cars. The engine bays just can't hold all the peripherals, so manufacturers come up with all sorts of acrobatics to stuff everything in the limited space. End result: Air intakes placed in impractical positions, intake resonators replaced with drilled holes in the hose to filter out oscillations, cars that need other parts to be removed to just change a headlamp bulb (ask an i10 owner what an ordeal it is to change the LHS bulb). Didn't the initial batch of Ecosport have a critical electronic component mounted so low behind the front bumper that a good splash would fry the circuit? I remember Ford had to re-position the module for a handful of cars via recall and change placement for future production.

I do minor DIY jobs myself, and it's far easier to work on my age-old Accent with its spacious engine bay than our Figo back home which is insanely cramped to do anything meaningful without professional equipment.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 30th October 2014 at 18:52.
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Old 13th June 2016, 20:32   #103
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

Sanjeev Gupta is teaching Honda Cars India a lesson. He has refused to accept a new engine as a replacement.

http://www.rushlane.com/honda-amaze-...-12198518.html
Attached Thumbnails
Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking-honda-amaze-diesel-engine-warranty-problem-8.jpg  

Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking-honda-amaze-diesel-engine-warranty-problem-4.jpg  

Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking-honda-amaze-diesel-engine-warranty-problem-2.jpg  

Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking-honda-amaze-diesel-engine-warranty-problem-3.jpg  

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Old 14th March 2017, 19:49   #104
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Default Re: Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking

As a prospective Honda customer, I wanted to know if this hydro locking issue has been resolved on the new brv and the upcoming wrv. Thanks in advance.
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