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Old 18th October 2014, 20:06   #91
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

How much does a new MJD engine cost ?
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Old 18th October 2014, 20:44   #92
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

I am a Fiat Punto owner myself. I love the way the car drives and rides. Perfect for my tastes. That said, I am worried when I hear such instances. My intention was to keep the car for long and while upgrading, upgrade to another from Fiat stable.

Now I am not too sure. In the first 9 months of ownership, I had to get suspension work done under warranty. Not too reassuring, but atleast they did not create too much fuss about it. But what happens after the warranty expires?

Timing chains should last the engine life. This issue brings two points out, how Fiat has started playing around with honouring warranty in case this issue is related to timing chain problem (just for argument sake). Moreover, a premature failure of something which is supposed to last a lifetime also shows the quality of parts that go in. All this leading to such serious ramifications! What if OP had waited for the 60k kms to be done before getting the car serviced? He would not have even known about the issue. Is Fiat fooling customers by having a 15k km service routine when their cars actually need shorter intervals?

Secondly, if timing chain is not the cause of the issue (which seems more probable to me) why is Fiat acting funny and hand in gloves with the ASC? Why should I as a Fiat customer be expected to head to Fiat at smallest incident when it should ideally be taken care by the dealership? Who is Mangesh and why should I know him if I am supposed to have a good time with my Fiat?

That said I hope your case is settled amicably.
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Old 18th October 2014, 21:50   #93
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

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How much does a new MJD engine cost ?
Half block including crank,conrod, piston with rings cost around 47K.
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Old 18th October 2014, 21:52   #94
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

then why is this 1.4 lakh figure being dropped from time to time.
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Old 18th October 2014, 22:30   #95
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

I am baffled at the way Fiat is conducting business in India. Arun, perhaps the legal route is the only option for you, if you don't intend to accept Fiat's offer of 25% discount on the repair job.
I have myself been at the receiving end of Fiat's atrocious service quality over the past 3 years. 'Responsibility' and 'accountability' aren't the words that I would associate with Fiat, especially when it comes to service and support.

Last edited by riturajsharma19 : 18th October 2014 at 22:49.
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Old 18th October 2014, 22:52   #96
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

I own a 2009 1.3 mjd punto. I bought it fully knowing that the plastics might fall off, panel gaps may be uneven, beading might come off. But - the only big reason I bought the car ( other than the way it handles) is for the perceived reliability of the engine.
I had my fair share of troubles with the suspension, AC, brake pads wearing off at 20k etc. But I was sort of expecting this. Although I take my car to a FNG for service as I stopped going to FIAT A**, I was actually starting to think about taking the car this year to the service center again this year.
This issue with the timing chain changes everything. If the engine and related components are not well put together - then what is FIAT any good for ? Atleast my perception of FIAT has taken a U-turn based on this one thread. If I don't see a good ending with FIAT coming forward to replace the engine free of cost to the owner I will -
1. Obviously get rid of my ride as soon as I can
2. Discourage anyone even thinking about a FIAT ( abarth or its dad)
3. join any anti-FIAT group on the social media and let more folks know about this story with the timing chain.

Sorry about the rant, but I am really worried and disappointed with FIAT.

Last edited by milestogo : 18th October 2014 at 22:57.
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Old 18th October 2014, 23:07   #97
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

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then why is this 1.4 lakh figure being dropped from time to time.
Thats just the half of the engine plus other parts and don't forget the labour which is more then 20k for a engine re-build.

If the damage is minimal then you can get it done under 70k at the dealer but as usual they cheat you and just tell you everything is damaged.

For e.g. my friend had damaged his Punto engine during the monsoon season as he hit a puddle at quite high speed. Water got sucked in, engine died and before he could try to crank again the electrics went dead.

Now there is a relay attached to the LHS front bumper which if gets into 2 feet of water will kill all the electrics. Don't know if it's a safety feature or just a fluke by Fiat. Car got towed to the workshop to be told the cost of rebuild at 1.5Lakh.

They won't even try to revive the engine unless he agreed to 1.5L bill so we took to a outside garage. Engine was opened the next day to see the damage and we found only one connecting rod slightly bend. Parts required for his rebuild was only a con rod and head gasket, engine oil/oil filter/air filter and sealant. Since the repair the engine has done 60k and still as good as new. Price of this repair was just 12k including OEM parts and labour.

So in 1.5L they will change almost everything which is not even needed and scam you off your money. They make a lot on labour plus the 16% margin on parts. As you will find it hard to get the parts outside and Swift parts although same will not last much in a fiat engine. Hence their greed to simply ask the max they can from a customer.
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Old 19th October 2014, 07:03   #98
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

Dear all A catastrophic engine failure happens at 57000 km on a engine under warranty. Oil level found low. Either the oil sump was under filled or it was filled ok but the engine oil consumption was so high that there was very less oil in there was very less oil in the sump by the time failure took place. If so during running you would have observed bluish smoke and a lot of it during operation. One symptom stated was smoke from dip stick. This clearly indicates that the crank case was getting pressurised. That can happen when there is a gas blow past of worn out piston rings. At 57000 km such blow past is highly abnormal and defective or worn timer chain can no way be the cause for this. The reason appears to be catastrophic piston rings failure possibly due to loss of lubrication/ which in turn may be due mixing of two grades of oil (synthetic and mineral) which can cause oil sludging/ failure of lub oil pump (unrelated to chain)/ washed an reused punctured lub oil filter/ poor quality piston rings. Personally I feel the lubrication qualitywas seriously compromised at some stage. Was there anyvoil top up done with different quality andcgrafe of oil between services.
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Old 19th October 2014, 10:44   #99
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

Only logical thing I can think of is this. The connection between the timing chain issue and oil issue. Possible that the debris collected from the slackened timing chain scraping the timing chain pads + cover went up and clogged the oil filter to an extent, and this restricted oil flow till the engine head somehow.

This is the only other possibility other than the service centre under-filling oil during service.

Last edited by DRIV3R : 19th October 2014 at 10:46.
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Old 19th October 2014, 12:23   #100
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
Only logical thing I can think of is this. The connection between the timing chain issue and oil issue. Possible that the debris collected from the slackened timing chain scraping the timing chain pads + cover went up and clogged the oil filter to an extent, and this restricted oil flow till the engine head somehow.

This is the only other possibility other than the service centre under-filling oil during service.
But if the oil flow to the head was restricted, how does it explain the heavy oil consumption/low oil level?

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 20th October 2014, 17:14   #101
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

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Originally Posted by arunkk View Post
I have done all the services on time and have done all the suggested replacements from the service centres till now.
Story starts 1 month back when I have taken my car for early 60K service when it had clocked 55800kms at Vecto motors Bangalore (Singasandra). I was well within my 15k service interval from previous service.
After reading thoroughly the problem and almost all the comments I would like to mention:
1. Service interval recommended by the Manual is WELL WITHIN the limits of abuse/over stress. To prove my point, do we really think the Cabbies get their Airport/City taxies getting their Dzire Tour/Manza serviced every 8k kms? No - you bet!
2. A part as critical as timing belt would alarm you so many times, consistently and in more than one ways before failing! Taking into account your 60k and 50 months - odd ownership, which is more than sufficient to understand the machine's language, I am damn sure one would get signals much before a critical component's failure.
3. Timing belt/chain loosen, and hence are due for a replacement - I do not buy the theory of it's shredding and the minute particles scratching the surfaces inside - until you were running ur car on HCL / H2SO4

4 Ask fiat in an aggressive email - Why did not the
4.1 Check Engine light came up - even when you were losing power on highway?
4.2 Low Engine Oil light came up - when you had just a litre of the same left?
4.3 Why is not the timing belt replacement mentioned in the service manual?
4.4 Good that the SA had a look and let you know. What if he had not?

Had it been Toyota I might have taken their words. For a FIAT, second thought is always required, that too for such an incidence.
What is the guarentee that the A.S.S. is not just trying to prove their point/accuracy while correlating the Part Change Request and their investigation.

Sorry, I may sound too baised against the SA/A.S.S, but after a false and uncalled recommendation of Battery,Lower Arm and Struts replacement by MARUTI SERVICE MASTERS, GUINDY, CHENNAI for my then 5 years 40k kms done Estilo (estimated bill Rs. 23k - damn it was getting my Skoda Laura serviced I thought), I always have an extremely watchful eye and thinking brain. I mean - how can one recommend a battery replacement when my car cranks properly and its 100/90 Philips Rally are illuminating almost equally while engine running/off?

In 1 line - please fight well on your points before paying for an Engine Overhaul
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Old 20th October 2014, 17:28   #102
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

Update:
After getting absolutely no response to my mails / calls / rants all over social media, I decided to take it to a workshop recommended by my friend. He has done engine overhaul work for many MJD engines and I found the person to be quite trustworthy.

He has opened the engine and a full overhaul is needed. The damages are due to running the engine with less oil which has spoiled most of the components. He will give me a detailed breakup by tomorrow. And the villain as per fiat, the timing chain, is still perfect and there is no visible damage to it as per the technician. The workshop has given a rough quote of 65-70k for the engine overhaul.

I have updated this to the email chain including Mangesh Kondalkar and still no response as I expected. I am bit pressed on time as I need to go abroad for a company assignment next month and so I really don't have the time and energy to fight with fiat any longer. It was my mistake to go with a fiat car and I am repenting now.
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Old 20th October 2014, 17:59   #103
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

I suggest you not to send an email but a proper land/slow mail via registered post with photos of intact timing chain etc believed to be faulty. Mangesh Kodalkar is just a synonym for problems with Fiat. It is most likely he is not reading any email and the response is by some junior customer service executive.

In any case, poor show by Fiat. And something which is obviously cheating by dealer and his lousy mechanics and Fiat. Fiat is finding it hard to retain dealers and thus will not publically castigate any dealer. The dealer on his part will never claim responsibility for his omission, especially something for which he has bear the cost of an entire engine from his pocket.

This is a vicious cycle and will take Fiat down with it. This is a problem with VW's, Skoda's and Fiat's. They do not have popular cars to keep dealers in line and lack of ethical dealers means their cars will never get popular.
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Old 20th October 2014, 18:03   #104
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Haven't checked this thread for quite sometime now, and I must say that recent events have been quite depressing to say the least. Sorry that a FIAT owner is made to repent his purchase in a country where only very few of us purchase their products.

If it is not too much of a burden- Could you please post pictures of the damage?
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Old 20th October 2014, 18:12   #105
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Default Re: Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
I suggest you not to send an email but a proper land/slow mail via registered post with photos of intact timing chain etc believed to be faulty. Mangesh Kodalkar is just a synonym for problems with Fiat. It is most likely he is not reading any email and the response is by some junior customer service executive.
I will send one registered post also to their customer care address and lets see if it helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Haven't checked this thread for quite sometime now, and I must say that recent events have been quite depressing to say the least. Sorry that a FIAT owner is made to repent his purchase in a country where only very few of us purchase their products.

If it is not too much of a burden- Could you please post pictures of the damage?
Sorry I don't have all the pictures. Please find few of the pics attached which shows scoring on crankshaft and its bearing.
Attached Thumbnails
Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!-picture-411.jpg  

Fiat Punto engine failure @ 57000 kms!-picture-421.jpg  

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