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Old 22nd October 2014, 19:39   #1
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Default AMT Failure in my Maruti Celerio! EDIT: Issue resolved

AMT failure in my new Celerio!!!
The car has run just 650 kms with first service done last month.

The Transaxle system failure warning light stays on and the vehicle refuses to slot into gear.

23rd October Update:
Quote:
Update: Today morning called up the service center and was surprised at the reply given

"Sir, we are not sure if out technician is experienced to service celerios with AMT's :O. Any way we would send him to look into it "

The technician with another service engineer arrived and looked into the issue. Suddenly they walked away from us and had some very private chat among themselves and came back and informed us that it was a small electrical issue. Batteries disconnected and the usual fuse and wiring checks were done. They said that the issue is resolved and we can go for a test drive.

Did a test drive and came back fine and parked the car back in the garage.

Later today at 4 in the evening the technician called up again and asked to verify the car again. Went and checked and to my surprise it was not working. The Trans axle failure light is on!!!

Called him back and it was informed that they would take the vehicle to service center tomorrow morning to look into the issue further.

27th October Update:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep_vgl View Post
Here's the update guys :

I got my car yesterday by noon after rectifying the issue. Went out for a test drive with service technician and everything looks fine. The issue stands resolved as of now.

But there are two versions of the story for the reason behind the issue. One is by the technical engineer and the other by the service advisor.

The TE says the issues was caused by a loose coupler cover which made way for the water entering the coupler and creating an electrical short. They cleaned the coupler and the points and refitted the cover properly which resolved the issue.

The SA had a different version though. He said the issue was caused because of some one not used to an automatic car. They usually drive with right leg on the accelerator and the left leg on the brake pedal. The mentioned issue was caused because of the driver applying both at the same time and driving. The car is "brilliant" enough to sense this and automatically cut off "something" which prevents the AMT from working. ECU was reset to fix the issue. DONE!!!

I believe there should be more hidden features like this in celerio. It could even sense Drunken driving, over speeding, dizziness and disengage AMT gear boxes to prevent the person from driving further .

Before leaving i ask the SA to provide me with details of the diagnosis result or the error shown. He went inside to ask some one and came back and told me that the error read as " AMT selector failure - History".

I am not sure whether any parts were replaced to fix this issue or whether they are pushing it as a minor issue specific to this car and not a manufacturing defect. I still could not believe both versions of the story!!!

Last edited by GTO : 29th October 2014 at 15:40. Reason: Adding latest update again.
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Old 22nd October 2014, 19:51   #2
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio : Official Review

This is not what I want to hear the day I took the delivery
Please keep us posted on this thread after your check at the service center.

To all folks looking for VXI+ variant, it is nothing but body coloured door handles, mirrors (with turn indicators), JVC double din music system and remote central locking. Personally I did not like the music system on offer. The price of the same is 13K and this is available at the dealer for both manual and AMT vxi models.
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Old 22nd October 2014, 20:09   #3
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep_vgl View Post
AMT failure in my new Celerio!!!
The car has run just 650 kms with first service done last month.

The Transaxle system failure warning light stays on and the vehicle refuses to slot into gear.
Shocked to hear this failure on a Maruti Suzuki car!
Are AMTs yet to be fully tested for their reliability for Indian conditions?
Also, did you have to tow your car to the service center? In view of the holidays, hope MASS fixes the problem at the earliest.
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Old 22nd October 2014, 20:35   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep_vgl View Post
AMT failure in my new Celerio!!!
The car has run just 650 kms with first service done last month.

The Transaxle system failure warning light stays on and the vehicle refuses to slot into gear.
Wow, now this some news for a newly launched car.

All the best to you and hope it gets rectified quick. Do keep us posted on the diagnosis and solution.

Anurag
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Old 22nd October 2014, 22:38   #5
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep_vgl View Post
AMT failure in my new Celerio!!!
The car has run just 650 kms with first service done last month.

The Transaxle system failure warning light stays on and the vehicle refuses to slot into gear.
Wow this is some bad new for a new car. Hope it's a one-off incident.
  • Have you got the car towed to the service center? What was their diagnosis?
  • Did you try to start on an incline without using parking brake?
  • The reason I say that it maybe one-off is because all these products are well tested before launch. It's a pity that such a thing happened
  • Also, do create a separate thread. This is very important for Maruti and the outside world.
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Old 23rd October 2014, 10:45   #6
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Default Maruti Celerio : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep_vgl View Post
AMT failure in my new Celerio!!!
The car has run just 650 kms with first service done last month.

The Transaxle system failure warning light stays on and the vehicle refuses to slot into gear.

This is atrocious! The fact that AMT is not a standard accepted technology and is not used widely in any international market is a known fact, but the fact that Maruti would experiment this on a market as large and important as India is a shocker. The should have conducted extensive field trials under all possible conditions for years before releasing such half baked product as a cheaper alternative to Automatic transmission.

Last edited by outdoorlover : 23rd October 2014 at 10:46.
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Old 23rd October 2014, 11:49   #7
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Originally Posted by outdoorlover View Post
This is atrocious! The fact that AMT is not a standard accepted technology and is not used widely in any international market is a known fact, but the fact that Maruti would experiment this on a market as large and important as India is a shocker. The should have conducted extensive field trials under all possible conditions for years before releasing such half baked product as a cheaper alternative to Automatic transmission.
Let's not pull the trigger yet. AMT is a very well accepted and tested technology. VAG sells a hatchback called Up! (I think that's the name.don't remember 100%)In Europe too with AMT. The transmission actuator is made by Magnetti Marelli, which makes transmission components for Ferrari too. I'm sure MSIL did all the necessary tests prior to launch. In all probability it might be an isolated failure. We are far away from the day when mechanical parts never fail. If you get so annoyed at an economical AMT, how would you react to the costly VW DSG which has an imperfect track record across the world?

Last edited by Reinhard : 23rd October 2014 at 11:51.
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Old 23rd October 2014, 12:10   #8
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by outdoorlover View Post
The fact that AMT is not a standard accepted technology and is not used widely in any international market is a known fact
Sorry, but this not true!
AMTs were expensive to manufacture before, so it wasn't used much. For the markets like US, the Torque converter AT was not too expensive to manufacture and gives a superior driving experience. So the AMT wasn't really the focus for these markets.

With an FE conscious market like India, ATs just don't make the cut! So AMT technology was improved and made cheaper to manufacture. It gives you the convenience of an AT(not really comparable to the driving experience of AT, but okay for first-timers) without affecting the FE.

Also, I think MSIL would have tested the cars enough and this maybe a one-off failure. (Hopefully I'm not proved wrong)

Last edited by D4D : 23rd October 2014 at 12:11.
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Old 23rd October 2014, 21:17   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep_vgl View Post
Update: Today morning called up the service center and was surprised at the reply given

"Sir, we are not sure if out technician is experienced to service celerios with AMT's :O. Any way we would send him to look into it "

The technician with another service engineer arrived and looked into the issue. Suddenly they walked away from us and had some very private chat among themselves and came back and informed us that it was a small electrical issue. Batteries disconnected and the usual fuse and wiring checks were done. They said that the issue is resolved and we can go for a test drive.

Did a test drive and came back fine and parked the car back in the garage.

Later today at 4 in the evening the technician called up again and asked to verify the car again. Went and checked and to my surprise it was not working. The Trans axle failure light is on!!!

Called him back and it was informed that they would take the vehicle to service center tomorrow morning to look into the issue further.
Hey thanks for the update. I was waiting to hear about it! Perhaps a software issue with the ecu? Probably you'll get a firmware patch.
Given that they called you back, this might be a known issue. If it is, I hope MSIL declares a recall and deploys the hot fix on all AMTs.
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Old 23rd October 2014, 21:34   #10
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep_vgl View Post
informed us that it was a small electrical issue. Batteries disconnected and the usual fuse and wiring checks were done... The Trans axle failure light is on!!!
Preliminary check ups I would say. The transmission is a very expensive part to replace and understandably, they would love to believe that it's an issue with the ECU, which can be flashed.

Second time occurrence of the light doesn't appear to be a good sign. I don't want to jump into any conclusion, but this seems to be more than a problem with the ECU. They may again flash the ECU, else we're looking at changing the Transaxle.
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Old 23rd October 2014, 22:17   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep_vgl View Post
The Trans axle failure light is on!!!

Called him back and it was informed that they would take the vehicle to service center tomorrow morning to look into the issue further.
What does the Diagnosis read when it is hooked up?

There would be some number that would be showing up in the scanner?


Fuse checking, battery disconnect and reconnecting are everyday preliminary procedures these guys do to see if the problem recurrs or no.

As Sandeep has reported the light reappearing again, they'll get serious.

A firmware upgrade could given them an idea though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
Hey thanks for the update. I was waiting to hear about it! Perhaps a software issue with the ecu? Probably you'll get a firmware patch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D4D View Post
I don't want to jump into any conclusion, but this seems to be more than a problem with the ECU. They may again flash the ECU, else we're looking at changing the Transaxle.
Anurag.

Last edited by a4anurag : 23rd October 2014 at 22:45.
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Old 25th October 2014, 15:20   #12
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Default re: AMT Failure in my Maruti Celerio! EDIT: Issue resolved

AMT-failure related posts moved to a new thread! Thanks to Narayans80 for requesting the same.

Also adding an email from Jayakrishnan M:

Quote:
Recently I purchased a Maruti Suzuki Celerio AMT VXI model. It has done less than 300 kms. But the car is subjected to serious manufacturing defect, resulting in stopping of the vehicle in traffic jams. What to do with this? It is a brand new car. Am I eligible for replacement or refund? Kindly advice
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Old 25th October 2014, 16:19   #13
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Default re: AMT Failure in my Maruti Celerio! EDIT: Issue resolved

It is a shocker. I am sure Maruti would have done enough and more testing on the AMT before its launch. Hoping that this would be a one off incident. Sandeep, as D4D suggested this seems like an ECU issue, as the car worked after a small electrical reboot. Shouldn't be too much of a worry.
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Old 25th October 2014, 18:28   #14
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by outdoorlover View Post
This is atrocious! The fact that AMT is not a standard accepted technology and is not used widely in any international market is a known fact, but the fact that Maruti would experiment this on a market as large and important as India is a shocker. The should have conducted extensive field trials under all possible conditions for years before releasing such half baked product as a cheaper alternative to Automatic transmission.


Anyone heard of the Proton Savvy? This is a little car similar to the Celerio came with an optional AMT box.
The car was plagued with issues and once warranty expired repair bills went into large figures!

The Manual transmission of the car wasn't that bad. Most of the negatives reviews were based towards AMT versions.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1359729/all


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
AMT-failure related posts moved to a new thread! Thanks to Narayans80 for requesting the same.

Also adding an email from Jayakrishnan M:

After GTO's post, this makes me wonder. Are we going to see such major issues with the celerio AMT? We know of 2 cases now.
There could be several other cases which we don't know about and are the dealers with the help of Maruti quietly replacing the faulty parts as long as the car is within warranty?

I also read somewhere that Proton sourced their AMT from a "French Company" Any guesses?

Here is a Video on youtube, I saw several others complaining of similar or other issues with the AMT gear boxes on this car.

Last edited by Captain Slow : 25th October 2014 at 18:31.
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Old 25th October 2014, 18:40   #15
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Default re: AMT Failure in my Maruti Celerio! EDIT: Issue resolved

The main issue with an AMT or a DSG in India is the shift actuator and the clutch actuator will be under a heavy workload since our traffic demands a lot of gearshifts as well as clutch use in heavy traffic. Hence, what 'may' be reliable in a country with a well behaved traffic and good roads will require lesser shifts and clutch usage. Since this was from Maruti, I expected that the product will be put to lot of road tests. Hope the issue wont become a common issue, since there are quite a lot of AMT celerios and if its a defect, that will be a bad thing for Maruti.
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