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Old 20th April 2009, 08:41   #91
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Default Therapeutic

I bought a Palio 1-6 in Mumbai on Saturday. While driving it back to Hyderabad, I noticed that the engine seemed to be hitting a dead-spot between 1600 and 2000 rpm. There was also a slight reluctance to cross the 3600 mark. I hoped that a good fast run on the Pune Expressway would solve the issues as this would give the car an opportunity to clear clogged exhaust, fuel lines etc., unfortunately this did not happen.

While refuelling in Pune, I added 40 ml of Castrol Super TT to a tankful (approx. 40 litres) and drove to Solapur. I must say, the difference is remarkable. The dead-spot disappeared in about 50 Km, the engine now happily goes all the way to 5000 rpm without a pause. The FE too has improved from the 10, I got initially to about 13. All this without opening any part. Cost = Rs. 8/-!!

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Old 20th April 2009, 10:27   #92
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
I bought a Palio 1-6 in Mumbai on Saturday. While driving it back to Hyderabad, I noticed that the engine seemed to be hitting a dead-spot between 1600 and 2000 rpm. There was also a slight reluctance to cross the 3600 mark. I hoped that a good fast run on the Pune Expressway would solve the issues as this would give the car an opportunity to clear clogged exhaust, fuel lines etc., unfortunately this did not happen.

While refuelling in Pune, I added 40 ml of Castrol Super TT to a tankful (approx. 40 litres) and drove to Solapur. I must say, the difference is remarkable. The dead-spot disappeared in about 50 Km, the engine now happily goes all the way to 5000 rpm without a pause. The FE too has improved from the 10, I got initially to about 13. All this without opening any part. Cost = Rs. 8/-!!

Cheers,
Any particular reasoning for this?
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Old 20th April 2009, 13:03   #93
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I have indigo Marina TDI, I want to use 2T in deisel. What quanity will be enough and pls tell me any known problems occuring thereafter
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Old 21st April 2009, 09:46   #94
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Default Detergents!

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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
Any particular reasoning for this?
2T oil has 'detergents' (more than those found in regular oils) which remove deposits, including carbon deposits. Once added to the petrol in a car, it cleans the lines, pumps, injectors etc. (in MPFI engines) and manifold, inlet valves, jets, etc. (in carb. engines), as it flows along with the fuel.

Post combustion, it clears the carbon deposits on exhaust valves, piston rings, exhaust manifold etc.

Why 2T oil and not any other oil? A.: Because 2T oil is designed to be added to fuel unlike crankcase oils. It is therefore 'comustion friendly'.

In my experience, the 2T oil addition works best on long runs at high speed. It is just not effective during short commuter runs in the city. I guess it is the combination of high volume of gases passing through for a sustained length of time + constant temprature. I have not added any more 2T oil after that first application in Pune. The car now runs on Shell ULP (91 octane without additives).

The amount of 2t oil should not exceed 2ml per litre of fuel. Posts in this thread say that the optimum is 1.75 ml per litre. This works out to a max of 0.2% and optimum of 0.175%.

Cheers,

Last edited by Ravveendrra : 21st April 2009 at 09:48.
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Old 21st April 2009, 18:42   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
2T oil has 'detergents' (more than those found in regular oils) which remove deposits, including carbon deposits. Once added to the petrol in a car, it cleans the lines, pumps, injectors etc. (in MPFI engines) and manifold, inlet valves, jets, etc. (in carb. engines), as it flows along with the fuel.

Post combustion, it clears the carbon deposits on exhaust valves, piston rings, exhaust manifold etc.


Cheers,
What is the source of this?? If this were true, 2 strokers would never needed to be decarbed. The fact is that even 2 strokers which are by design supposed to burn 2t oil get gunked up quite fast especially when low grade oils like Castrol Super TT burn.

Forget about them cleaning anything... the only thing you can talk about is how clean the 2t oil burns - none will burn completely and they will leave carbon in your engine.

As I mentioned earlier, the best bet is to use fully synthetic 2t oils like those from Motul.... or maybe even Petronas (cheaper). These will burn much cleaner.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 08:22   #96
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Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
What is the source of this?? If this were true, 2 strokers would never needed to be decarbed. The fact is that even 2 strokers which are by design supposed to burn 2t oil get gunked up quite fast especially when low grade oils like Castrol Super TT burn.

Forget about them cleaning anything... the only thing you can talk about is how clean the 2t oil burns - none will burn completely and they will leave carbon in your engine.

As I mentioned earlier, the best bet is to use fully synthetic 2t oils like those from Motul.... or maybe even Petronas (cheaper). These will burn much cleaner.
I agree, de-carbing the silencer/muffler of my Lambretta, Jawa and Suzuki-Supra are not experiences that I enjoyed. I guess the difference is in the quantity. 2% mixtrue for the two stroke engines vs. 1/10th of that or 0.2% for the car. If one looks really far back and recalls the days prior to introduction of 2T oils, we used to dump regular crankcase oil into the petrol. The smoke, carbon and gunk that accumalated in the silencers was much more.

I shall leave it to the oil gurus to elucidate on the exact composition of the 2T and other oils. I do not know about Motul and Petronas. Castrol has always worked for me. Perhaps prolonged use will lead to build up of deposits, I use them rarely and for short periods of time - preferably one long drive every 2 to 3 years.

While on the topic, I have used Diesel engine oils in petrol engines for 'carbon cutting'. Drain out the oil, replace the filter and fill in an oil designed for Diesel engines. This Diesel engine oil has to be drained out after 500 to 1000 Km. I have noticed more carbon and other nasty stuff coming out in the Diesel engine oil than the regular oil it replaced.

Cheers,
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Old 22nd April 2009, 12:37   #97
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Come again on this... Could you be more detailed and what is the source? Or did you discover this by chance?

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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
While on the topic, I have used Diesel engine oils in petrol engines for 'carbon cutting'. Drain out the oil, replace the filter and fill in an oil designed for Diesel engines. This Diesel engine oil has to be drained out after 500 to 1000 Km. I have noticed more carbon and other nasty stuff coming out in the Diesel engine oil than the regular oil it replaced.

Cheers,
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Old 22nd April 2009, 13:33   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post

While on the topic, I have used Diesel engine oils in petrol engines for 'carbon cutting'. Drain out the oil, replace the filter and fill in an oil designed for Diesel engines. This Diesel engine oil has to be drained out after 500 to 1000 Km. I have noticed more carbon and other nasty stuff coming out in the Diesel engine oil than the regular oil it replaced.

Cheers,
But Multigrade oils on any specification is same for diesel and petrol engines. Now I'm totally lost. Anyways have been using Shell multigrade oil for a long time now and it works well.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 23:02   #99
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Default Discoverd by chatting up people

I discovered this while chatting up a guy in the oil business. I asked him why Diesel engines require a different oil and he gave me a lot of info. about the higher carbon, sulphur, pressure etc. I latched on to one bit i.e. the bit regarding how oils formulated for Diesel engines are supposed to be better at removing carbon and carbon deposits.

I asked my mechanic (Srinivas the hero of my first post in the thread about acquiring the GTX), who then invited me over when he was opening up a Diesel engine (an ancient Amby). He pointed to the amount of carbon deposits and the sludge inside the engine and said that this was what an oil had to deal with inside a Diesel engine as opposed to the petrol engines (the insides of which were familar to me) which were much, much cleaner in comparison.

The next step was the question: What happens if we put Diesel engine oils in a petrol engine? The answer was that from the time of his father, they used to put Diesel engine oils in petrol engines to clean out the innards. One however had to drain out the oil soon and flush the system. For some reason no one recommends using Diesel engine oils for extended periods of time in a petrol engine.

@ MC, I think you mean synthetic oils not multi-grade. I have no idea about synthetics, I do know that they behave very differently from mineral oils.

Cheers,
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Old 22nd April 2009, 23:14   #100
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
2T oil has 'detergents' (more than those found in regular oils) which remove deposits, including carbon deposits.

Cheers,
Ravveendra shouldnt the additives in branded petrols (Power, Speed etc) achieve much the same result? Maybe IFTEX too can help. Or am I missing something here?
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Old 22nd April 2009, 23:22   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
...the amount of carbon deposits and the sludge inside the engine ...was what an oil had to deal with inside a Diesel engine as opposed to the petrol engines... which were much, much cleaner in comparison.

What happens if we put Diesel engine oils in a petrol engine? ...put Diesel engine oils in petrol engines to clean out the innards. One however had to drain out the oil soon and flush the system. For some reason no one recommends using Diesel engine oils for extended periods of time in a petrol engine.
Very true. Diesel engine oils have an immense amount of detergents to clean out and control the deposits produced while burning derv. The same detergent, when used in a petrol engine, esp. an old one, will wash out the "good" carbon, which was actually helping to keep the piston rings maintain compression and oil control.

Once that "good" carbon is gone, the petrol engine running on diesel engine oil quickly loses compression, and has oil rising to the top of the pistons and fouling the spark plugs. Result: engine rebuild required.

For a short-term use (200-500 km), the oil works like an engine decarb and flush fluid, which is slightly cheaper than the real thing (and more easily available).
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Old 23rd April 2009, 00:49   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
I discovered this while chatting up a guy in the oil business. I asked him why Diesel engines require a different oil and he gave me a lot of info. about the higher carbon, sulphur, pressure etc. I latched on to one bit i.e. the bit regarding how oils formulated for Diesel engines are supposed to be better at removing carbon and carbon deposits.

I asked my mechanic (Srinivas the hero of my first post in the thread about acquiring the GTX), who then invited me over when he was opening up a Diesel engine (an ancient Amby). He pointed to the amount of carbon deposits and the sludge inside the engine and said that this was what an oil had to deal with inside a Diesel engine as opposed to the petrol engines (the insides of which were familar to me) which were much, much cleaner in comparison.

The next step was the question: What happens if we put Diesel engine oils in a petrol engine? The answer was that from the time of his father, they used to put Diesel engine oils in petrol engines to clean out the innards. One however had to drain out the oil soon and flush the system. For some reason no one recommends using Diesel engine oils for extended periods of time in a petrol engine.

@ MC, I think you mean synthetic oils not multi-grade. I have no idea about synthetics, I do know that they behave very differently from mineral oils.

Cheers,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt View Post
Ravveendra shouldnt the additives in branded petrols (Power, Speed etc) achieve much the same result? Maybe IFTEX too can help. Or am I missing something here?
No you ain't missing anything except that these additives wont "achieve much the same result"... they should achieve a far better result!!!

Quite right. This is much better than using dubious flush products!

One other option is to use oils which are rated for both petrol and diesel. They will do the job... and you dont have to discard the oil so soon, so it will save money. But once again I'd point to oils like Delo 400 which have amongst the highest detergent content... and can be used in petrol engines too!

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 23rd April 2009 at 13:03. Reason: Merging posts
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Old 23rd April 2009, 01:59   #103
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Thanks SS-Traveller your post filled in quite a few gaps in my knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Volt View Post
Ravveendra shouldnt the additives in branded petrols (Power, Speed etc) achieve much the same result? Maybe IFTEX too can help. Or am I missing something here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
No you ain't missing anything except that these additives wont "achieve much the same result"... they should achieve a far better result!!!
I used 'Speed', 'Power' and 'System G' earlier but they are just not the same. I think (but am not sure) that they are designed for regular use and prevent build up of deposits rather than cleaning old recalcitrant deposits. I now use regular petrol so 2T oil once in a while is convenient. I add 0.1% to 0.2% of the total tank capacity and top up the tank. One advantage of 2T oil is costing, it costs between Rs.8/- and Rs.16/- for one tankful of 40 litres.

Cheers,
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Old 23rd April 2009, 12:15   #104
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
I used 'Speed', 'Power' and 'System G' earlier but they are just not the same. I think (but am not sure) that they are designed for regular use and prevent build up of deposits rather than cleaning old recalcitrant deposits. I now use regular petrol so 2T oil once in a while is convenient. I add 0.1% to 0.2% of the total tank capacity and top up the tank. One advantage of 2T oil is costing, it costs between Rs.8/- and Rs.16/- for one tankful of 40 litres.
Additives in Speed and Power, or SystemG/IFTEX added to petrol, clean out injectors and valve seats, and maybe a little bit of the 1st compression ring - as opposed to diesel engine oils in petrol engines, which clean out below the pistons, and the sludge around the valve drivetrain (but not the valve seats).

I am not quite sure of the reason you're adding 2T to petrol, but it won't help to clean anything. My logic of using 2T in 4-stroke petrol engines has been two-fold:
1. In old engines running unleaded petrol, the valve seats took a beating when the lead deposits washed out and the comparatively softer valve seats needed a cushion to prevent pitting - so 2T formed a carbon deposit on the seat which prevented premature valve leakage.
2. In a newly built/restored engine, the 2T (0.5-1% v/v) helps lubricate the valve guides and the top rings, therefore reducing overheating and allowing the rings and guides to bed in evenly. I would use the 2T mix for about 1k km, and then discontinue.

Detergents in 2T oil are minimal AFAIK, and won't do as good a job as, say, SystemG would. However, it leaves more carbon deposits on burning than SystemG. So your detergent benefits in the fuel lines are negated by the carbon produced in the cylinder when 2T burns. It certainly won't clean inlet or exhaust valves.
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Old 25th May 2009, 09:48   #105
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Default 2T oil for Indica DLS

Dear Sir,
I just got my fuel pump serviced for my indica v2 DLS 2004 model by an authorised lucas service agent. The servicing is fine and the car now runs very smoothly.
However the agent told me to put 100ml of 2T oil for every tank full.
Is this correct ? Should i put 2T oil or System G in the fuel tank ?
Please advice.
Thanks & Regards,
Fariborz
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