Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th March 2015, 15:39   #76
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderers View Post
Forgings is most common manufacturing process for alloys due to flexibility in providing the desired shape and finish. Also they are stronger but a bit costlier.

In both the cases of broken wheels, the construction is a forging based. However they have used multiple piece construction and the crack seems to propagate from welded portion.
The XUV 5oo alloy wheels, both OEM and Original Accessory, are cast wheels. They are not forged wheels. Not just Mahindra but no mass market manufacturer gives forged alloy wheels on their mass produced regular cars.

Forged wheels are expensive and to be found on racing vehicles and super/hyper cars.
Sankar is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2015, 15:57   #77
Team-BHP Support
 
Gannu_1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Madras
Posts: 4,876
Thanked: 9,713 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderers View Post
In both the cases of broken wheels, the construction is a forging based.
How did you conclude that the alloys on the XUV are forged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderers View Post
Forgings is most common manufacturing process for alloys due to flexibility in providing the desired shape and finish.
Casting and machining is the most common process for alloy wheel fabrication AFAIK.
Gannu_1 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2015, 16:22   #78
SDP
Team-BHP Support
 
SDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,710
Thanked: 7,607 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinjosep View Post
...
Back to the topic. SDP, could we check with the owner if the other remaining alloys show any sign of wear/ cracks/ damage? I assume chances are that they are from the same batch.
Unfortunately not possible to check the other alloys on the same car. He wasn't ready to take any further risks and got all of them replaced.

Update from the owner Rakesh (2nd incident - Silver XUV):

Quote:
Actually I needed my vehicle asap so I asked them to remove all the 4 alloys and asked them to replace with normal disc wheel. And I have asked to refund the money which I paid for the alloys. They have accepted to refund it within 10 days. They will send the broken alloy for testing and they will give me the report after it comes.
SDP is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2015, 16:40   #79
BHPian
 
tamojoym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 67
Thanked: 26 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

I am using these alloys in question and I shot a mail to Mahindra customer care .Got a call from Customer care Manager from Bangalore assuring nothing will happen to the alloys and also that they are investigating the issues reported .
Actually I shared the link of the First Post by SDP in my mail .Fingers crossed .
I am using these alloys for over a year now and did highway runs unaware of the potential danger .

Last edited by tamojoym : 12th March 2015 at 16:41.
tamojoym is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2015, 16:44   #80
Senior - BHPian
 
motomaverick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,838
Thanked: 864 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

Quote:
Actually I needed my vehicle asap so I asked them to remove all the 4 alloys and asked them to replace with normal disc wheel. And I have asked to refund the money which I paid for the alloys. They have accepted to refund it within 10 days. They will send the broken alloy for testing and they will give me the report after it comes.
Really really interesting fact revealed, if by they he means the dealer then Mahindra is definitely aware of some short comings of these Speed style rims. Otherwise no dealer will readily agree for a refund that easily. Though I may be wrong and the owner had to haggle and shout a lot to get the refund but accepting for a refund certainly makes these cases more interesting.
motomaverick is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2015, 20:53   #81
Senior - BHPian
 
1100D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 4,179
Thanked: 2,360 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
Can you post the marking on the last to pics? (exact letters?) Trying to figure out who made these alloys.

Just because they are made in China we can not be badge as "Bad Quality or inferior"
Those "Made in China" marked alloys are the stock wide-spoke rims, the one's in question here are the "Speed" rims. We do not seem to have reports (apart from the post GTO shared, which looks to be a separate issue altogether) of those giving up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
I can see some marks on tyres? Could these be because of some kind of Impact?
Those marks are interesting, probably provided the initiating force for the destruction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
Check the same pic with additional areas marked in blue and white.
Attachment 1348922

The blue area shows that the skirting of the wheel arch has been dislodged. The white area on the right shows that even the fender has been damaged and the black skirting has folded inside. In my opinion, all this damage to the skirting and fender has been done after the alloy broke and the tyre came in contact with the skirting and fender. So the dirt mark on the tyre is most likely because of the tyre touching the inner side of the skirting.
If this was true, then the tyre, which seems to have rotated counterclockwise after hitting the fender inside, would have a clockwise and longer circumferential dirt mark. However, the mark that is there on the tyre seems to be something that you get after having hit something made of hard concrete. But then, too where the rim seems to have failed is where the spokes connect to the hub.

And looking at the cross section of the spokes where they meet the hub of the rim in question, its not hard to assume why. Just some indicative sections marked , though all the spokes and all the 5 joining points on the hub have similarly given up

XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!-broken-alloy-31.jpg

If I had these rims on my vehicle, I would be taking them off immediately.


Interesting observation is, when a vehicle undergoes prototype testing, it does undergo rigorous tests from manufacturer on their highest "standard" dress level, design defects of critical parts do make themselves visible then and the manufacturer can make the respective vendor take corrective action.

In this case, the standard "Made in China" wide spoke alloy itself has undergone miles of testing on the prototype stage of the vehicle.

However, on the aftermarket accessory scene, the manufacturers tend to depend on the vendor to have ensured proper stress/shear testing. Besides, the authorised accessories themselves not having to go through CMVR or other regulatory policies.

These incidents are actually quite a curtain raiser, that they cannot rely on the vendors alone to ensure quality even if these are accessories. Being sold under the manufacturers brandname, they have to be similarly involved as if they were OEM. Hope Mahindra learns from this. Most of the learning is usually associated with some terrible loss, but thankfully and coincidentally in this case no lives were lost in this, although the risk was significantly higher.

Most premium manufacturers do offer a choice of rim designs, but each of those do get to rack serious miles by the manufacturer before the manufacturer approves those rims to be sold as an authorised aftermarket accessory from the manufacturer.
1100D is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2015, 20:58   #82
Team-BHP Support
 
Gannu_1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Madras
Posts: 4,876
Thanked: 9,713 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Anybody know who makes these alloys for XUV and for Scorpio? Who's the OEM for alloys?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
The "Made in China" marking
Friend who works in M&M confirms 2 names - Deltronix and Wanfeng China.
Gannu_1 is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2015, 21:53   #83
BHPian
 
rahul_kej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Siliguri
Posts: 218
Thanked: 241 Times
Default

Got couple of calls from the service centre. They have asked to bring the vehicle for inspection. Though it was a prompt response from there side I really don't understand what will they inspect, specially nothing will be visible externally.
rahul_kej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2015, 22:15   #84
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Purnea(Bihar)
Posts: 5,206
Thanked: 4,828 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahul_kej View Post
I really don't understand what will they inspect, specially nothing will be visible externally.
They would have gotten instructions from M&M on what to check upon.

P.S - Is Anindam around Khokan Motors? (he was at Skoda)

Last edited by Sheel : 12th March 2015 at 22:19.
Sheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2015, 22:28   #85
BHPian
 
rahul_kej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Siliguri
Posts: 218
Thanked: 241 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post

P.S - Is Anindam around Khokan Motors? (he was at Skoda)
Out of the few people I know there, never heard his name. My RM is Mr. Roshan and he is quite cooperative.

Will be going to the ASS on Saturday, will enquire if he has joined.
rahul_kej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2015, 22:32   #86
BHPian
 
Geo_Ipe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vellore
Posts: 395
Thanked: 359 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Vid, where are you getting this "5" number from?

I can only see 2 incidents of the speed-rim design in this thread (with pics), as well as a the 1 additional mention (rim style unknown) that I've shared in my post above...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
In any case the number of speed alloys wheels is much smaller so the 2-3 cases itself is very high DPPM.

I think Rehaan has summed up what I was saying in a much better way.

I don't think the number "5" or "3" is the most important factor in the discussion!

Before this thread, how many of us have seen such an incident in any car?? Bent alloys - yes! But alloys breaking off at the center is something unheard of. And the 'coincidence' argument is really not valid here, considering how rare the nature of the incident is.

M&M definitely needs to investigate and let at least the XUV owners know how safe it is to drive their vehicles around.

Just curious - Hasn't Anand Mahindra responded to this controversy on Twitter? Folklore says he is very active on socail media when it comes to matters like this!
Geo_Ipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2015, 23:10   #87
BHPian
 
callvvijay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 250
Thanked: 143 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post

Yesterday, a owner Rakesh from Chennai reported a very similar incident with the same design alloys from Mahindra.

In his own words:

Here are the 4 pics he shared:
XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!-broken-alloy-4.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
The second case is from Chennai. The owner is part of a XUV group on FB. He has provided details that the vehicle was doing 30kmph (one of the reason why the broken wheel did not roll out of the wheel arch and caused a bigger accident). He also provided details that its a 2.5 month old vehicle, has run 7000kms and has not hit anything before.
Quoting a (relatively) old post from this very same thread - just to say that the place where the accident has occurred is very close to my home and it's my daily route to/from office.

I see many posts about the possibility of the car hitting potholes and about the speed of the car.

Potholes:
It's a well-laid road and because of the construction activity going on (Metro station), the road has some small potholes. Actually, I can't even call them as potholes. When my Alto takes up these so-called potholes with ease, can't the XUV?

Speed:
The construction activity for metro has been happening for quite some years now and to slow-down the speed of vehicles, speed-breakers are present. Actually, to be very exact, to cross the stretch of ~0.5 kms where this metro station is being built, you will have to cross 6 speed-breakers. There is no way that any car can pick up speed beyond 30/40kmph.
callvvijay is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2015, 23:25   #88
Senior - BHPian
 
Captain Slow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,256
Thanked: 650 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Those "Made in China" marked alloys are the stock wide-spoke rims, the one's in question here are the "Speed" rims. We do not seem to have reports (apart from the post GTO shared, which looks to be a separate issue altogether) of those giving up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
Friend who works in M&M confirms 2 names - Deltronix and Wanfeng China.
Thanks Gannu!
So I am guessing
Deltronix -
Makes the Sporty Design - The one that has broken in the picture.

Wanfeng China
Makes the normal Alloys found in the stock car.
Captain Slow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2015, 02:01   #89
BHPian
 
latentpotential's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: IIM, Ahmedabad
Posts: 502
Thanked: 376 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahul_kej View Post
Got couple of calls from the service centre. They have asked to bring the vehicle for inspection. Though it was a prompt response from there side I really don't understand what will they inspect, specially nothing will be visible externally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
They would have gotten instructions from M&M on what to check upon.

P.S - Is Anindam around Khokan Motors? (he was at Skoda)
The way to inspect an alloy for failure possibility such as this is using xrays to look for telltale microfractures. e.g. rimstock in the uk uses this in their testing facility. I wonder if we have any such test facility in India at present.
latentpotential is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2015, 10:31   #90
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 560
Thanked: 1,270 Times
Default re: XUV500 safety issue: Weak alloy wheels. EDIT: Mahindra starts silent recall!

Quoting from a similar thread on another forum. Note that this is about the W8 model and not the petal-shaped alloys being reported here.

Quote:
I met a guy during xuv regular serve whose disc had cracked. and it was nothing less than catastrophic.

his rear left w8 OE disc cracked in the middle, like 2.spokes one half and 3 spokes. other half. the floor of vehicle got baldy smashed and he had to. apply for Insurance to get vehicle repaired.

repair cost 50k, out of which 20k was paid by Insurance.
source - http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/fo...ompromise.html
sachinayak is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alloy Wheels - Sai Mag Wheels (Rama Road Industrial Area) tsk13 Delhi NCR 37 30th December 2016 17:07
Weak Hyundai i20 air-conditioner. EDIT : Test results on pg. 4 agm Technical Stuff 253 11th October 2013 08:31
Received a copy of the Coffee Table book on the Mahindra XUV500 from Mahindra Corp. shankar.balan Shifting gears 3 2nd April 2012 16:26
Maverick's Silent Assassin - Hyundai Elantra CRDi! Edit: Now Filtered and Pete'd maverick030581 Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 86 5th August 2010 16:58
Class Starts Early; Indigo CS launched; starts at 3.79lac jkdas The Indian Car Scene 208 28th May 2008 18:53


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 05:23.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks