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Old 25th March 2015, 15:26   #136
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
It's the same indicator. The engine oil is the lube oil. Or are you aware of any other lube oil?
I was referring to it as the oil pressure low indicator as it is not a low oil level indicator.
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Old 25th March 2015, 15:28   #137
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
So- are they saying this (below) caused all the damage? Pardon me if wrong since I'm browsing from mobile and can't figure out any other damage to the filter.
Precisely my thoughts, and this area is sitting outside the O ring where technically there is no oil circulation happening. So i think this is just "washing hands off" happening.
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Old 25th March 2015, 15:34   #138
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Probably he wants to say that it is a pressure indicator, not a level indicator. Pressure can be correct upto a certain threshold even if the oil level in the engine is low.
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Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
I was referring to it as the oil pressure low indicator as it is not a low oil level indicator.
Guys, it's the same indicator. The low oil pressure warning shows up when there's insufficient oil level or a sensor malfunction or the pump is defective. In this case, it is the insufficient oil level which triggers the warning light.
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Old 25th March 2015, 15:38   #139
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
Guys, it's the same indicator. The low oil pressure warning shows up when there's insufficient oil level or a sensor malfunction or the pump is defective. In this case, it is the insufficient oil level which triggers the warning light.
In a sense, yes but not exactly. Low oil level after a threshold will cause insufficient oil pressure flowing out of the pump. And anyway, the light coming on is probably not a preventive feature. It is just an information that the damage has been done and the reason is low oil pressure.
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Old 25th March 2015, 16:54   #140
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Here are your Options now:
1. Consumer Case and let the car rot!
2. Buy an engine from Scrapyard and do the work in an ex Honda Workshop, certainly warranty, extended warranty and insurance stand no good anyways!
3. Sell the Car and migrated to a peaceful Vehicle
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Old 26th March 2015, 10:43   #141
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
In a sense, yes but not exactly. Low oil level after a threshold will cause insufficient oil pressure flowing out of the pump. And anyway, the light coming on is probably not a preventive feature. It is just an information that the damage has been done and the reason is low oil pressure.
Makes me miss the oil meter from my Dad's 1976 Ambassador Mark III. Starting it, and at various revs, it would give you an indication of oil pressure kinda like an RPM Meter. The Red, Yellow and Green range markings gave some color to the otherwise black dashboard. Wish I had a picture to share!
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Old 26th March 2015, 12:03   #142
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by dhruvtanwar View Post
Makes me miss the oil meter from my Dad's 1976 Ambassador Mark III. Starting it, and at various revs, it would give you an indication of oil pressure kinda like an RPM Meter. The Red, Yellow and Green range markings gave some color to the otherwise black dashboard. Wish I had a picture to share!

Very few cars these days have oil pressure gauges, but they are very usefull. They also give you a very good indication on the temperature of the oil. Your temperature gauge is a very poor indicator as it measures the cooling liquid temperature. Especially during startup from cold, the oil pressure is a good indication on whether the oil has reached its operating temperature as only then will the pressure be in the normal range as well.

On some of my classic cars I have an oil pressure gauge, On my Mercedes W123 and my Alfa Romeo Spider. The Alfa has a fairly large quatity of oil and I can see that when the temperature gauge register normal operating temperature, the pressure is still to high, indicating (too) cold oil. It could easily take another 5-10 minutes driving to get the oil properly warmed.

I have owned one car, a Renault, where the pressure gauge also indicated the oil level before starting, so with just the ignition on, it showed the oil level and when you started it became a pressure gauge. Very cool!

Jeroen
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Old 26th March 2015, 12:11   #143
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Oil Pressure indicators and temperature gauges were a boon when they were standard fitments on car dash boards, once. But pressure switches and sensors gave way to these indicators over time.

Technological improvements and the evolution of electronic instrumentation made us to abandon the old school habit of opening the bonnet on a regular basis. We have also forgotten to keep a watch on warning lamps in the console, which are plenty these days.

Similar is the case with gear box oil levels. Earlier cars had dipsticks for this too, which has vanished altogether. Even the M800 had one.

Whenever the engine lube oil pressure drops due to any reason, the immediate action required is to pull up and stop the engine. But in today’s thick density of traffic and at highway speeds, immediate action may not always be possible. And this can lead to severe engine damage and such instances are on the rise nowadays. Same is the case whenever an oil leak develops abruptly. The damage would happen quicker than our response.

Now come to think of it. We need to be quicker on our actions. We need to observe beneath the bonnet and below the car routinely for visual signs of fluid leakages.

Last edited by rajeev k : 26th March 2015 at 12:18.
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Old 26th March 2015, 12:33   #144
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Sad to go through this thread. I guess ruling out the Amaze diesel over the Etios(Liva) was a wise decision we took recently.

As far as what your friend should do is hire a lawyer and file a case with the district consumer forum right away. Its a clear case of Honda washing its hands off.

Also the emails written by your friend seems to lack the weight it should have carried. Should have included more technicalities which would have weighed down on Honda. May be just my opinion though.
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Old 26th March 2015, 13:10   #145
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
Oil Pressure indicators and temperature gauges were a boon when they were standard fitments on car dash boards, once. But pressure switches and sensors gave way to these indicators over time.

Technological improvements and the evolution of electronic instrumentation made us to abandon the old school habit of opening the bonnet on a regular basis. We have also forgotten to keep a watch on warning lamps in the console, which are plenty these days.

Similar is the case with gear box oil levels. Earlier cars had dipsticks for this too, which has vanished altogether. Even the M800 had one.

Whenever the engine lube oil pressure drops due to any reason, the immediate action required is to pull up and stop the engine. But in today’s thick density of traffic and at highway speeds, immediate action may not always be possible. And this can lead to severe engine damage and such instances are on the rise nowadays. Same is the case whenever an oil leak develops abruptly. The damage would happen quicker than our response.

Now come to think of it. We need to be quicker on our actions. We need to observe beneath the bonnet and below the car routinely for visual signs of fluid leakages.
Quite agree. Come to think of it, the pressure gauges and dip sticks allowed the owner/driver first hand knowledge of critical parameters of the car's fluid levels, critical factors in preventive maintenance. Absence of these tools in today's cars leaves owners with no way to check levels (except the engine oil dipstick) except for a little light on a Christmas-tree-like array on the dashboard.

If you were to follow the car company's dictated way of life, all you're supposed to do is fuel up, drive, and perhaps change an odd flat tyre. Just take a look at the tool kit that comes with the car -- its only a wheel spanner now. Clearly by design, all car companies in India today prefer that owners visit the service station for every little thing, even checking fluid levels.
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Old 28th March 2015, 21:15   #146
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Though the indicator is an oil pressure indicator, as pointed out by others, by the time it glows red, the damage is nearly done. I would assume that the pressure pick up point would be at the inlet side of the pump. Even then, you would have less than a minute before seizure; depending on the rate of oil leakage, engine rpm, oil temperature, etc..

Quote:
The oil filter of your car had been damaged by an external
impact which led to oil leakage.
The leak isn't from the filter. It's from a crack in the crankcase just next to the filter. In other words, what they're saying is that the impact on the oil filter was hard enough to damage the casing, but not the filter itself! What do they make it of, reinforced titanium alloy?

If I were you, I would ask the company to identify the person who tightened that filter. Just out of curiosity.

The following is a bit of a long shot, but try it if you can. No harm done. Without giving them any prior intimation, approach them and ask to be introduced to the technician. The idea is not to get him to own up to a mistake that he may have committed. The idea is to measure (and if possible record) their responses to the possibility of a service induced crack. How do you normally tighten an oil filter? What kind of tool do you use, if any? Do you use a torque meter? If not, how do you know that an oil filter is tight enough? You want to closely observe their reactions.

If they aren't using a torque meter, that last question should elicit a response like, "from our experience, saar!" Not good enough. The more experienced a mechanic is, the more he will be inclined to use a definitive way of knowing how tight/loose a threaded-on part is; experience would have likely taught him that torque should never be based on experience. Recording their responses will help tremendously in building a case.

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Originally Posted by dhruvtanwar View Post
Clearly by design, all car companies in India today prefer that owners visit the service station for every little thing, even checking fluid levels.
It is to bring your vehicle in more often so they can bang it up a bit each time!

On a serious note, the add ons (a/c 'disinfect', interior cleaning and pest control, abc additive, xyz booster) really help the company get some side revenue. Pushing things on customers turns to strong recommendations turns to weak suggestions the moment they realize that you're more knowledgeable than the average Joe.

Last edited by Eddy : 30th March 2015 at 14:07. Reason: Merged
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Old 30th March 2015, 09:54   #147
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by kcj3b View Post
Here are your Options now:
1. Consumer Case and let the car rot!
2. Buy an engine from Scrapyard and do the work in an ex Honda Workshop, certainly warranty, extended warranty and insurance stand no good anyways!
3. Sell the Car and migrated to a peaceful Vehicle
define Peaceful Vehicle. I have 3 honda cars right now and have not experienced any failures. I have strongly thought that petrol engines from honda are great and their overall engineering is great. What you want is a statistical analysis of breakdown failures/1000 cars/year for every manufacturer and/or for every model. Unfortunately I don't know of such data. Till then, something like JD POWER ratings can be used, which do give honda, in general and all over the world, good reliability ratings.
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Old 30th March 2015, 12:42   #148
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by Aga_sahab View Post
define Peaceful Vehicle. I have 3 honda cars right now and have not experienced any failures. I have strongly thought that petrol engines from honda are great and their overall engineering is great. What you want is a statistical analysis of breakdown failures/1000 cars/year for every manufacturer and/or for every model. Unfortunately I don't know of such data. Till then, something like JD POWER ratings can be used, which do give honda, in general and all over the world, good reliability ratings.
Honda was a classy state of an Art reliable Car in India but then came the greed of Cost cutting.it led to the compromise on both Quality & Service.
The kinds of issues you face today with Honda cars is shocking and then the Service is another another tale to tell.
I too once was a HONDA loyalist until thunder struck!
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Old 30th March 2015, 13:12   #149
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by kcj3b View Post
Honda was a classy state of an Art reliable Car in India but then came the greed of Cost cutting.it led to the compromise on both Quality & Service.
The kinds of issues you face today with Honda cars is shocking and then the Service is another another tale to tell.
I too once was a HONDA loyalist until thunder struck!
This is only my opinion:
Maruti and Toyota are the other two who are good in terms of initial quality. Toyota seems more reliable but Maruti is easily serviceable. Honda have awesome engines for petrols. I like the engine which is why I went for it.
Regardless, This is a sad situation when it seems beyond a doubt that the issue should have never occurred and honda should try their level best to help regardless of cost. Its a little more about brand image than who is at fault here.

Sorry for being .
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Old 30th March 2015, 13:51   #150
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

If we have to go only by statistics, we will not have anything to discuss here. Clearly, Amaze petrol and Amaze Diesel (Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking) have design issues looking at the two threads. Just out of curiosity, how many cars provide the filter under the engine ? I am aware of none until now.
My suggestion to the owner of the car would be to send a legal notice and fight this in consumer court. It is definitely not the owner's fault even if the car bumped into a stone which is an extremely common occurrence.
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