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Old 16th March 2015, 12:21   #16
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Sad to hear about the issue. So,Honda wont repair under warranty.What does Honda expect one to do,Check each and every part every day or every hour?For heaven sake its a car and not an aircraft .If Honda is so particular they should start installing Oil pressure gauges like the ones in old Ambassadors.
Regarding the insurance company not accepting the claim,this scenario reminds me of the Hindi movie Oh My God. IF the Sump cracked-
1- Due to a stone hitting-Its an accident period and the insurance company must issue the claim
2-If the sump cracked on its own,its a manufacturing defect and the car being under warranty, Honda must investigate and if its a manufacturing defect must have the courtesy to replace the engine.

Already seen the Fiat and Skoda cases in this thread and really feel dis grunted as to how such companies take us customers for granted. Though I drive a tin can called swift the rattler I am glad its a Maruti .

Please take it up with the higher ups. Going to the consumer court is the last resort. Make sure of whatever communications you do,record it.
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Old 16th March 2015, 12:25   #17
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Definitely a design or manufacturing defect from the looks of it. Here's another reported case with the Brio (same 1.2L engine & identical situation) - Brio engine seized.
Could also be due to over-tightening of the filter?
This is definitely not a stone hit in the area marked. If a stone hits so hard as to crack, it would leave a dent.
This is clearly on Honda, and they are trying to wriggle out of it.
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Old 16th March 2015, 12:39   #18
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Could also be due to over-tightening of the filter?
But would the engine's cast body crack as a result of over torquing the oil filter? I'd think the threads on the filter would go bad and the filter would give up. Not the other way round.
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Old 16th March 2015, 12:41   #19
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
But would the engine's cast body crack as a result of over torquing the oil filter? I'd think the threads on the filter would go bad and the filter would give up. Not the other way round.
Yes, that is true, but imagine filter being put on a hot engine, where the metal has slightly expanded. They over torque it, and now the metal is hot and expanded. Later, with vibrations stress etc., eventually, something gives way.
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Old 16th March 2015, 13:06   #20
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Hi, at the risk of sounding bad, this huge expense might have been saved by following the old school, hard and fast rule of keeping an eye on the instrument cluster frequently. The low oil warning light should've definitely lit up, if not, 100% the low oil pressure light. You should've stopped the car immediately.

That said, this crack near the oil filter is defintiely not a stone hit crack. IMO, its a manufacturing defect. Bad metal treatment process maybe. Please escalate the matter. If the service center is threatening you, you might as well threaten back with a consumer case, and social media publicity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
.. The immediate consequence of driving with no engine oil is overheating, and consequent tripping of AC. Both of them are obvious and noticeable....
Yes the temperature will go up due to additional friction, but, as long as the cooling system is perfectly functional, coolant temperature (meter temperature) will not go up considerably. The internal heat generated is dissipated quickly by the cooling system. However, the loss of power will be obvious, due to friction-heat-metal expansion. But then, highway runs needn't immediately show that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Could also be due to over-tightening of the filter?
The filter is supposed to be hand tightened. And it has a gasket. So, it is not possible to over tighten it so as to crack the aluminum block. The Aluminum block is much stronger than the filter element, to give way before it. The filter element can be punctured using a screw driver.


As a side note: The Ford Ikon engine doesnt start if the coolant temperature sensor is not working or shows full temperature. Similarly, I think companies should put a system which immediately shuts down the engine or goes to limp mode as soon as the low oil pressure lights up.
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Old 16th March 2015, 15:55   #21
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

During the 90's & early 2000's, Honda was seen as a reliable brand having class leading quality. Its not the same anymore. Honda today sees India as a major cash cow & nothing else. Honda no longer enjoys the same respect as before.
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Old 16th March 2015, 15:59   #22
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Folks, playing the devil's advocate here. Isnt the owner/driver responsible to ensure they stop the car when warning lights come on inside the dashboard and engine temp starts to rise? Seems like here the person driver didnt realise at all till the engine actually seized.

Ofcourse the fault seems to be with honda if the sump cracked but they now seem to be encashing on the situation and blaming on the driver. Insurance companies anyways do the same.
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Old 16th March 2015, 16:05   #23
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

The owner or driver is deemed responsible enough to heed to warning lights, after all he has earned his licence hasn't he? Highly irresponsible to claim the driver was concentrating on the drive and not spotting a red warning light, if true he shouldn't drive in the first place. Secondly I wonder why the engine didn't go into the limp home mode first? Would have protected from the seizure
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Old 16th March 2015, 16:15   #24
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

This is the second case in past few months wherein first the Fabia was being talked about for oil leakage, engine failure and consequential damages and now Honda.

Quite amazing to see that in both cases, if the warning light for low oil pressure was functional, it was overlooked by the driver.

Yes, the manufacturer and the insurance companies will try to blame each other but can't there be a middle path say for basic damage the insurance company should own up and approve a base claim, while Honda / dealership (after seeking approval) may consider something in terms of repairs and may be the rest should be borne by the owner.

This could be a quick resolution because the insurance was zero depreciation, the car is in its' first year of operation and has been serviced by Honda dealership, there are no accident marks and even the dealer is suggesting a leak which seems to be metal fatigue / manufacturing defect.

This should have been resolved quickly, I am not sure why with increasing sales and a quite healthy Indian market both manufacturer and dealer are behaving this way. I still remember when Jazz flopped, city was just with a petrol avatar, and Honda was simply waiting for customers at their showrooms.

This sends sudden chills because the behavior of company and its dealership has changed so drastically with such small / short success, this is very similar to a "nouveau riche" behaviour.

Should not happen with a Honda Customer !

Please do escalate this.

Last edited by i74js : 16th March 2015 at 16:23.
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Old 16th March 2015, 16:16   #25
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Sad to see this Parimal.

The dealer may be trying to fleece you out. Please ask your friend to call Honda call center directly, and try reaching out to the email ID's mentioned earlier. They are rather prompt in their response.

I am no metallurgy expert, but this does look like a manufacturing defect and should be replaced by the company.

I also drive a Brio with the same engine made in 4/2012. Till date my experience with the Honda dealer (sundaram honda) has been stellar. They even have given me over the counter parts like airfilters.
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Old 16th March 2015, 16:18   #26
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Yes the temperature will go up due to additional friction, but, as long as the cooling system is perfectly functional, coolant temperature (meter temperature) will not go up considerably. The internal heat generated is dissipated quickly by the cooling system. However, the loss of power will be obvious, due to friction-heat-metal expansion. But then, highway runs needn't immediately show that.
It is the engine oil is which does a major chunk of the cooling. Engine oil takes the heat out of the engine and dissipates it into the water jacket. The engine WILL overheat if you drive with no engine oil regardless of how good the cooling system is.

Loss of power will certainly be there and alert drivers will notice a minor change in the sound of the engine too. But what is most obvious is that the AC will trip first thing when the engine overheats. Tripping of AC is unmissable. How did the driver not notice that?
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Old 16th March 2015, 16:26   #27
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
Tripping of AC is unmissable. How did the driver not notice that?
Was the AC ON?

Its nothing but the blame game by both the insurance and the dealer, its clearly a manufacturing defect or bad workmanship at the last service, no doubt about that as there is no space for even a small stone to hit at the "so called location" to make a crack w/o touching the filter. Is the engine \ sump so brittle to crack even with a small stone ?
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Old 16th March 2015, 16:28   #28
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Well the dealer is trying to cheat it seems. Going through the link GTO shared i have noticed the explanation given by the honda people was the same flying stone theory. That seems weird. Two seized engines of cars with a lot of shared parts and same explanation for the incident.
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Old 16th March 2015, 16:36   #29
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Missing a warning lamp is quite easy, especially when you are driving on the highway and in daylight. If not accompanied by a chime, you may not notice that tiny lamp glowing in the console. While we have discussed no ends the need for a temperature meter, which is disappearing in quite a few cars, have we not seen cars steaming? So much for providing a way to identify if your engine is going above normal operating temperature. You somehow miss these indicators even when provided.

If you run through the ECU logs, will it indicate alerts like low oil level or pressure?

I have missed releasing the parking brake fully on my car. With the parking brake on the first notch there may not be much resistance or difficulty noticed during acceleration. I did not notice the alert on the console. Started moving and it was the chime that got my attention.

This won't be an easy fix for the Honda owner.
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Old 16th March 2015, 17:26   #30
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Does that hole look like a aluminium filling coming off?

Forget all other issues, why won't a zero dip insurance not cover this. Even if it is a road impact, insurance is for the same right?

Can you post a higher resolution image of the under body while engine was still on the car? The last image, which is small ie.
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