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Old 16th March 2015, 17:38   #31
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

An engine running with no oil will seize, quite quickly.

Lesson learnt the hard way. I was driving a car that I knew had an oil-loss problem (it was an original-model Civic, low mileage but about 15 years old). A motorway services stop should have included an oil check, and I forgot. That lapse cost me the car: checking would have told me that I had a serious problem. The car might have made it home with frequent top ups, but probably should actually have been towed. It didn't make it many more miles at all before there was a nasty noise and a cloud of black smoke.

I know: this was 1970s engine technology, and it was an old car, but still, I don't think engine design has improved to the point where they will run oil-less for many minutes.
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Old 16th March 2015, 17:39   #32
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Highly recommend he try Akosha. They are good and well this looks like a case worthy of being taken to them. Sometimes bigger companies must be taught lessons.
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Old 16th March 2015, 17:49   #33
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

This could have been avoided; how?
Preventive maintenance and being pro active towards your cars up keep. Such leaks happen over time and not all of a sudden.

I faced a similar issue last week in my Linea, usually i have a habit of looking under the hood, and checking the floor where i park my car every second or third day. Last Wednesday, as i was driving out of office i noticed a tiny drop of oil on floor where i had parked my car. Since it was just a drop of oil i drove back home carefully keeping an eye on MID and temperature gauge.

Next morning i popped the hood and found engine oil leaked around the oil filter. I had replaced the oil about a month back and the oil filter's rubber O ring had given up. I would have had ended up with a blown engine, if i had ignored it for a few more days.
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Old 16th March 2015, 17:59   #34
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

The crack in the picture does not looks like it is stone impact.
This looks to be metal fatigue. one theory could be that, the metal block expands very minutely when hot and then shrinks back to normal when engine becomes cold. Repeated cycles like this can cause metal fatigue. But, it is really strange how in such a low mileage such metal fatigue can happen unless it is a manufacturing defect.
Honda is responsible for this and must be pursued to get engine replaced at their expense.
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Old 16th March 2015, 18:18   #35
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

I guess this should be owned up by Honda and even honoured for an Insurance.
The crack seems like a genuine manufacturing defect though I would recommend more detailed pics if found any.
With regards to the Warning lights, common folks we cannot keep glancing at the console for any warning lamps, specially when we are on the highway.

Couple of days back my santro had an overheated engine, which I could luckily notice in time. The engine overheat needle was much beyond the Maximum level, however I noticed this only when I slowed down near a speed breaker (Engine was running beyond normal when I had slowed down which helped me notice something amiss). Ofcourse am the one to be blamed here as I never checked the water / coolant level from months, which I used to do regularly when I bought the car. And when I popped the hood & checked the coolant level was NIL

However it's high time that manufacturers provide us with some warning lamps with chimes than just the glow signs. How much extra would it cost to just install some kind of chimes to help owners save thousands / even lakhs altogether!!?
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Old 16th March 2015, 18:42   #36
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Sir, my argument is based on, one of the 1000 mistakes I've made over the last years. On one instance, I have driven a 20 + year old vehicle with no oil pressure indicator, and a leaking crank oil seal. Have managed to drive till the oil went dry. Being an engine with an infamous overheating issue, my eye was always in the temperature gauge. However, what showed the no-oil (not low oil, no oil)symptom is the lack of power, not high coolant temperature. Immediately opened the oil cap, and found smoke and burnt metal smell. No coolant boiling.
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Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
It is the engine oil is which does a major chunk of the cooling.
No, the major chunk of cooling is done by the coolant cooling the engine block.
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Old 16th March 2015, 18:44   #37
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Now this looks like a serious case of poor quality of that metal / workmanship on Honda's part. I can sympathize with the owner/driver on account of such a mishap, but seems that he will really struggle in order to prove that engine oil lamp didn't light up. A properly maintained car, regularly serviced and within a year of ownership (as reported in OP) will have very little chance of that oil lamp going kaput exactly around when a leakage is in action. I mean odds are against this probability unless the service center guys disabled it after noticing the leakage during previous service - again this seems to be a very remote possibility to me. And I'm just talking theoretical possibility here.

Given the situation and this dealer acting up - I can offer you the same advice as many BHPians have already recommended - Escalate the matter to the top management of Honda Cars India. I have had an experience with this Nerul dealer (Hallmark Honda) not 3 months ago about my Civic's fuel tank lid cable and arrogant attitude of their service manager giving a damn about my repeated calls. I simply escalated the matter and they were back on track. I know their GM Service, Mr. Khan - who had to intervene and get all the concerns resolved on priority.

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Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
All these email ids will certainly help, I suggest you to mark a copy to this email id as well which I am going to PM you directly (don't want to put it up here in public forum). This email id is of Honda Cars India CEO and will certainly help in quick and fair resolution of the issues as it happened in my case. Hope it helps.
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Old 16th March 2015, 18:49   #38
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

The engine seizure cases are on the rise recently and all are reported to be abrupt happenings.
In almost all the reported cases, the oil pressure low lamp did not glow or was not noticed. It gives rise to the need of incorporation of an audible annunciation system, like beeps or hoots, for such critical parameters like oil pressure and coolant or engine temperatures.

The old school theory of opening of bonnet and inspection of the engine bay routinely, assumes great importance here. Observing the oil level by the dip stick and coolant levels is to be holistically practiced.
This would help identify lowering of oil level in cases of leakages and would go a long way in preventing major damages.

Last edited by rajeev k : 16th March 2015 at 18:51.
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Old 16th March 2015, 18:56   #39
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

I have a questions to OP( thread owner) .

When the engine seized , did you( or your friend) physical check the dip check or verify that there was no engine oil before you gave to service center ?

This could be a manufacturing defect and service center is trying to cover it up and putting the blame on you and making you pay for that .I never trust service center version .

The marks on the oil filter could have been deliberately done by service center .

Last edited by black12rr : 16th March 2015 at 19:07.
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Old 16th March 2015, 19:13   #40
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Quote:
Originally Posted by black12rr View Post
The marks on the oil filter could have been deliberately done by service center .
I agree.

The oil filter on my car was over tightened and thus got punctured. Thankfully I spotted it at the right time and not much oil had leaked out.

You cannot rule out incompetency by the service center and their efforts to hide it.

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Old 16th March 2015, 19:29   #41
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyBoi View Post
I agree.

The oil filter on my car was over tightened and thus got punctured. Thankfully I spotted it at the right time and not much oil had leaked out.

You cannot rule out incompetency by the service center and their efforts to hide it.

Attachment 1350267
Yes.. I second that. The SC would have already done the cover up during their initial round of detailed investigation, am afraid!

It's definitely better to go the old ways of popping up the hood & checking everything's in place before starting your ride and definitely if a long one. I believe: No machine can replace Human !
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Old 16th March 2015, 20:02   #42
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
This could have been avoided; how?
Preventive maintenance and being pro active towards your cars up keep. Such leaks happen over time and not all of a sudden. ... ... ...
Yes, it is a cautionary tale. Despite my experience mentioned above, since I have been driving new/young vehicles and not doing much in the way of long/highway trips, I have become very lazy about under-bonnet checks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unni246 View Post
With regards to the Warning lights, common folks we cannot keep glancing at the console for any warning lamps, specially when we are on the highway.
Well, we can! Warning lights are there to warn us. They should be designed in such a way that they catch our eye without much distraction from the driving.

Quote:
However it's high time that manufacturers provide us with some warning lamps with chimes than just the glow signs.
But that is a good idea. I don't know about oil pressure (and hope not to find out) but it is there already for low fuel and one or two other things, on my Polo, so maybe it is there already for oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
The engine seizure cases are on the rise recently and all are reported to be abrupt happenings.
In almost all the reported cases, the oil pressure low lamp did not glow or was not noticed.
No warning lamp before my adventure mentioned above. The warning is, as you say, for pressure not for level. I'm guessing that the pressure can be maintained at the sensor while there is still very little oil present. Could it be that the system just does not protect us against oil leaks?
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Old 16th March 2015, 20:08   #43
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Yes, that is true, but imagine filter being put on a hot engine, where the metal has slightly expanded. They over torque it, and now the metal is hot and expanded. Later, with vibrations stress etc., eventually, something gives way.
Not Correct, I have a Honda Civic 2003 VTI Automatic, I drive to the Fuel station to do an Oil/Filter change every 5000Km, No issues. Clocked over 1.5L on the ODO. The 2003 GCC spec Civic is Built in Japan, by the way. Yesterday, on my way back from office, notices by TEMP gauge in the 12 O' Clock position, Normal is little below 3 O' Clock, switched off AC, FAN, indicated to move to the slow lane & stopped my Civic on the HARD SHOULDER, with hazard lights ON. DID not switch off engine, Lifted the Engine Bonnet, could hear HISSING SOUND, Looked near radiator, white reservoir for coolant overflow- has flooded up to its plastic cap and boiling and steam was heard escaping from the sides of the reservoir cap. Engine oil seen spilled over the lower half, below the cylinder block.
No engine warning light, no LOW engine oil CAN light, idling RPM less than 1900. Waited for another 5 minutes and switched off Engine, got the car on a recovery FLAT BED and reached the Garage, lowered the car, switched on engine, TEMP @ 3 O' Clock, Idle rpm 1900 ish.. . Mechanic switched of engine, used thick waste cloth to turn the radiator cap Counter Clock Wise, half way still applying pressure on the RAD CAP, NO STEAM NO PRESSURE RELEASE, undo the RAD CAP, could see COOLANT was LOW added some fresh water! topped up the radiator, switched on the Engine, pulled the throttle cable, the engine reved happily, fluid burst out from the open RAD top, added some more water shut off engine.

I have got my Engine Head removed for inspection by the garage, awaiting more info. I will go to the Garage tomorrow to see the status of my Engine. I will return with some Pictures!
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Old 16th March 2015, 20:42   #44
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

A very sad tale. My friend went through a similar ordeal couple of months back with his Skoda Fabia and i posted the whole thing in detail on the forum. He was quoted over 6 lakhs for the engine rebuild by Skoda. In comparison 2.7 lakhs sounds low. He had hit a speed breaker and the oil pressure indicator didn't come on at all. Neither did he experience any loss in power. The car stalled abruptly. The story after it was towed to the service center was similar to your friends.

In my friends case there was a big crack in the sump and the reason given for the oil pressure light not coming on was due to rapid pressure loss ( assumption with no proof ). This on the other hand doesn't look like a crack due to stones or even scraping the underbody. It looks more like a quality issue with Honda.

Please escalate to Honda and don't expect anything from the insurance company. They will stick to the consequential damage stand.
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Old 16th March 2015, 20:49   #45
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

In the link shared by GTO on page 1, there is some discussion on ECU reports.

Please get that report from the service center, it will be helpful in pinpointing the actual cause.
Looking at the pictures points towards manufacturing defect or human error, stones wont cause this, would need a highly paid and specialized stone to be able to do that kind of damage!

If its just a hairline crack on the threading of the filter and if human error is the culprit, then the leakage would have started maybe from some time post the service.

Whether this would reflect in a warning light am not sure, but the error would be able to point out;
1. whether there was an error message displayed/recorded
2. When was the error first reported, this will help in diagnose whether the owner somehow overlooked the warnings.

Another thing, I feel your friend should have been around when they dismantled everything, for something like this to happen with a fairly new car, is something very peculiar. Did you get any information on the hole in the block? If there is seepage from threading, the oil should seep around as well.
During the servicing, was the oil topped up or replaced?

Engine oil should always be checked manually at least before you venture out for the longer drives.

Cheers!
Trojan
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