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Old 16th March 2015, 22:34   #46
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
Thanks a lot for sharing the E Mail ID's. I have forwarded the same to my friend. Honda clearly rejected the insurance claim stating its consequential damages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnabchak View Post
Dear Parimal

It would be fruitless to deal with the dealer here.
You will have to escalate the matter to the highest authority.
As far as I know, the escalation matrix at Honda is as below:

Sales Manager> Regional Head, Ops> CRM Manager/Head-West> Service Head, India> MD, Honda Motors
The only way to contact Honda authorities is through their call center line. And they dont provide any authorized E Mail ID or phone nos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arun_josie View Post
Did he also check for the engine oil level? If so, was it fine before this journey?

Regarding the stone theory, if it was a bigger stone lying on the road then it would have caused a bigger damage(may be even to other under body parts). Flying stone damaging this part is not believable.

Parking charge is common, if they are not going to cover this repair work under warranty (OR) If you decide to do the repair work outside.

No he didn't checked the engine oil before leaving. Its confirmed that there are no traces of oil leak at his residential parking as well as office parking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Could also be due to over-tightening of the filter?
This is definitely not a stone hit in the area marked. If a stone hits so hard as to crack, it would leave a dent.
This is clearly on Honda, and they are trying to wriggle out of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ::CMS:: View Post
Was the AC ON?

Its nothing but the blame game by both the insurance and the dealer, its clearly a manufacturing defect or bad workmanship at the last service, no doubt about that as there is no space for even a small stone to hit at the "so called location" to make a crack w/o touching the filter. Is the engine \ sump so brittle to crack even with a small stone ?
AC was working till the car stopped he said. Even i think some internal component failure may have caused this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Does that hole look like a aluminium filling coming off?

Forget all other issues, why won't a zero dip insurance not cover this. Even if it is a road impact, insurance is for the same right?

Can you post a higher resolution image of the under body while engine was still on the car? The last image, which is small ie.
Its very difficult to understand how that part came off. Zero dep insurance is also not helping as they say engine damage is consequential damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by black12rr View Post
I have a questions to OP( thread owner) .

When the engine seized , did you( or your friend) physical check the dip check or verify that there was no engine oil before you gave to service center ?

This could be a manufacturing defect and service center is trying to cover it up and putting the blame on you and making you pay for that .I never trust service center version .

The marks on the oil filter could have been deliberately done by service center .
No my friend didn't checked oil level during the indecent. What he heard some abnormal sound and he immediately pulled the car and called the customer care.

My friend has sent a mail to the IDs shared by Sumit and Lokesh, now waiting for the positive response from them. Hope Honda will take this case seriously. We are also putting this thread and other details on other social media sites like Facebook and whatsapp. Hope this kind of publicity will put them under pressure to act positively.
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Old 16th March 2015, 23:45   #47
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Parimal, I just saw this thread and am amazed at the way Honda is dealing with this matter (being a Honda user myself).

I have a few queries having experienced a hole in a Maruti Zen engine many years ago:
1) Were the connecting rods and crankshaft intact or do they show any signs of injury of hitting the wall from inside?
2) Was the car driven with the silencer under water in flooded conditions anytime before the incident?
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Old 17th March 2015, 00:00   #48
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

I too have burnt my hands thinking Honda was best in Service.
They are not!
Crappy Customer care whom you call, will just assure you that they will get back but they dont!
If you use the email link, that email is simply sent to that particular Dealer with no escalation!
The reliability of their Cars is getting worse.
Dealers are notoriously charging miscellaneous charges for parking security and estimate charges which are not even approved by company.
I remember buying Honda for an extra cash just for their built quality and reliability but that time is gone.
So now after my horrendous experience with Honda, it Adios Amigos for them.
Due to many issues at hand i regret not dragging them to court the first place!
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Old 17th March 2015, 07:08   #49
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Check the alarm log of the the ecu. Low pressure warning must have came on before oil leaked completely. Also a log for the same can be seen while diagnosing with laptop, even if they say that they have cleared the error codes, then also it can be seen in the menu. Dont budge before seeing that.

I wonder if the same can be done by you personally.

If you buy the ECU wire/dongle for amaze and check it yourself.

Last edited by GTO : 17th March 2015 at 16:38. Reason: Typos
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Old 17th March 2015, 09:37   #50
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Quote:
Originally Posted by siddd View Post
Parimal, I just saw this thread and am amazed at the way Honda is dealing with this matter (being a Honda user myself).

I have a few queries having experienced a hole in a Maruti Zen engine many years ago:
1) Were the connecting rods and crankshaft intact or do they show any signs of injury of hitting the wall from inside?
2) Was the car driven with the silencer under water in flooded conditions anytime before the incident?
I have a ppt sent by dealer to my friend, extracting few pictures from that power point but quality of images is very poor as the size of the pictures is very small. It shows some internal damage. What i feel is engine will just seize in case of oil leak it will not get damaged internally to such extent.

Attaching images.
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Old 17th March 2015, 10:00   #51
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

There was another case reported at Peninsular Honda in TVM. An Amaze Diesel car would not start and had to be towed to service center. The owner informed that he was driving the car at 60 kph when the car suddenly stopped and would not start again. It was not a major fault and the service center repaired it under warranty. However, when a check was done by Honda technician by running the Honda Diagnostics Check, it was found that the car was revved above the red line showing exact date and time it happened. The warranty claim was rejected and the dealer had to pay for the replaced parts. I don't remember the exact nature of failure.

What I was thinking here is, if the driver was sure that there was no fault from his end he can demand the report from the diagnostics system and check the report with either Honda or other approved agencies.
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Old 17th March 2015, 10:23   #52
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Oh crap! the connecting rods have given away, so i think the series of event is either:

1- Connecting rod snapping and leading to all this cracks leaks and what not.

OR

2- Oil seepage leading to seizure, connecting rod busting up and case cracking in the process.

This is rather messy!

If there was no oil leak anywhere, it means it is 1 and that means Honda has a rather big issue in hand!!!

Disclaimer: Unless we get good resolution pic, very hard to figure out what led to what.

Last edited by mobike008 : 18th March 2015 at 08:00. Reason: connecting "rod"and not "road" I assume ;-)
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Old 17th March 2015, 10:32   #53
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

If know any metallurgical expert it is possible by detailed examination to conclude whether it was a manufacturing defect in the casting/forging. Only way to put pressure on the manufacturer. However the person driving must have ignored a host of signals and signs of low oil level. The pressure switch can easily be checked for function to confirm that red warning light came on.
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Old 17th March 2015, 10:48   #54
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Default Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by adarsh76 View Post
it was found that the car was revved above the red line showing exact date and time it happened

This is nonsense from Honda. So any Honda diesel car revved beyond 4000 rpm loses it's engine warranty?

It makes 100ps of power at 3600rpm. Honda proudly claims these figures. But the owner loses warranty if he doesn't shift up within another 400 rpm? What's the fuel cut-off there for then?

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 17th March 2015 at 10:57.
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Old 17th March 2015, 11:17   #55
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Post Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
But the owner loses warranty if he doesn't shift up within another 400 rpm ?
What's the fuel cut-off there for then ?
You know what they say about 'Fool-Proof' systems & the Universe
The fuel cut-off cannot not save the engine in all cases.
For example, downshifting into too low a gear at too high a speed will cause a red-line overshoot despite the fuel cut-off.
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Old 17th March 2015, 11:50   #56
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Default Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Quote:
Originally Posted by adarsh76 View Post
There was another case reported at Peninsular Honda in TVM. An Amaze Diesel car would not start and had to be towed to service center. The owner informed that he was driving the car at 60 kph when the car suddenly stopped and would not start again. It was not a major fault and the service center repaired it under warranty. However, when a check was done by Honda technician by running the Honda Diagnostics Check, it was found that the car was revved above the red line showing exact date and time it happened. The warranty claim was rejected and the dealer had to pay for the replaced parts. I don't remember the exact nature of failure.

What I was thinking here is, if the driver was sure that there was no fault from his end he can demand the report from the diagnostics system and check the report with either Honda or other approved agencies.

How will revvs go beyond the limiter ? Over the 35 K kms of ownership , I used to hit the revv limiter in top gear on all my highway drives. Guess the top speed is limited at 4000 rpm ( don't remember the exact number ). But it was always a frustrating feeling to hit the limiter on an empty highway at speeds that most small cars these days would overtake you.

Same way , I don't think it's possible to go beyond 2000 rpm in neutral

Penninsular Honda in Mangalore are the best service guys I have ever interacted with. I can believe this story where they might have paid themselves for something that wasn't their fault. I have seen them repair minor dents and damages free of cost for new customers.

About the BS that the idiots at Honda reply to emails , I have been through all this. That's the reason , I will never advice anyone I know to risk putting their hard earned money on a Honda car in India


Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
You know what they say about 'Fool-Proof' systems & the Universe

The fuel cut-off cannot not save the engine in all cases.

For example, downshifting into too low a gear at too high a speed will cause a red-line overshoot despite the fuel cut-off.

Why would anyone do that at high speeds ? I have always relied on engine braking to slow down and have never faced any issues. Same with the Amaze. I have shifted to 3rd gear so many times from top 5th gear top speeds for speedbreakers , never has there been any problem
Even if the rpm goes beyond the redline , it would be at high rpms only momentarily. One would be braking as well. Modern engines can easily take this stress unless someone intentionally wants to blow off the engine

Last edited by speedsatya : 17th March 2015 at 12:12.
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Old 17th March 2015, 12:10   #57
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Its a pity that Honda has used this reason to deny warranty. If they say their engine will leak oil when it is redlined, they have just admitted poor design and construction.

We all know the ECU is programmed to cut off fuel at a certain rpm to either limit speed, or to protect the engine. Why did Honda not limit revs to safe limits then?

I loved the 1st gen Honda City, but the newer Hondas just don't inspire confidence.

Last edited by GTO : 17th March 2015 at 16:40. Reason: Please do NOT use acronyms (e.g. OHC) when referring to cars
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Old 17th March 2015, 13:57   #58
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

The taste of success can spoil anyone, be it the manufacturer or the dealer. Among all the Japanese players operating in India, Honda is considered to be the best in terms of quality and customer satisfaction along side Toyota (until 2013).
It seems that though, Toyota has not improved on what they are offering to Indian buyers, yet the so called sub-standard technology provided by Toyota is still managing customer satisfaction in terms of product reliability while Honda is falling apart.
What is the meaning of having all the systems like six-sigma, lean manufacturing etc when the end customer is facing issues with their product.
This should be addressed by Honda; more so I have discovered from the posts that Honda is shying away from customers. How do they want to do business in a competing market when there is no direct connect, though they are still better than the way Nissan operated but, if this continues and customer is at the mercy of dealer, well God save Honda !

Last edited by i74js : 17th March 2015 at 13:58.
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Old 17th March 2015, 14:59   #59
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by adarsh76 View Post
However, when a check was done by Honda technician by running the Honda Diagnostics Check, it was found that the car was revved above the red line showing exact date and time it happened. The warranty claim was rejected and the dealer had to pay for the replaced parts. I don't remember the exact nature of failure.
Disgusting from a manufacturer of Honda's stature. Why did Honda not have the rev limiter if it knew the engine will blow up if revved beyond red line? Denying warranty for such kind of reasons is absurd.

What next, Honda will deny warranty if the car is driven? It should not be a surprise if that happends in the near future.
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Old 17th March 2015, 15:00   #60
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by parimal_g View Post
Hello Guys,
Summary :
The vehicle was serviced on 4 Aug 2014. The Engine Oil was filled and i was charged an amount of 1300/- for the same. The vehicle had been running well without any issues for three months. There were no indications or alarms of any kind.

As on 25 Dec 2014, the vehicle's total running was close to 10500 kms. There had been no accident or damage of any kind to the engine or any of its core/internal parts.
Hi Parimal, sorry about the entire thing,

I had the same experience. once, I changed oil/filter , then after 4 months, during regular checks, luckily i noticed the engine had no oil.
The problem was identified to a small puncture in the oil filter.
Oil was leaking in drops that too only when the engine was running, so i didnt notice any major oil strain at the place where i park my car.
Oil flows through filter only when the engine is running.

Later on, another mechanic explained that it was caused by using incorrect oil filter wrench to install the filter or using too much pressure to tighten the filter.
some garages use filter wrench made of cycle chain, which can damage the filter easily.


This is the sequence of events that must have happened

4 Aug 2014. - engine oil was changed, probably along with the filter. oil filter punctured during the installation.
Oil was leaking in very small quantity all these days.
25 dec 2014 engine ran out of oil.

Refer attached picture,
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