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Old 17th March 2015, 15:15   #61
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by T1000 View Post
Hi Parimal, sorry about the entire thing,

I had the same experience. once, I changed oil/filter , then after 4 months, during regular checks, luckily i noticed the engine had no oil.
The problem was identified to a small puncture in the oil filter.
Oil was leaking in drops that too only when the engine was running, so i didnt notice any major oil strain at the place where i park my car.
Oil flows through filter only when the engine is running.

Later on, another mechanic explained that it was caused by using incorrect oil filter wrench to install the filter or using too much pressure to tighten the filter.
some garages use filter wrench made of cycle chain, which can damage the filter easily.


This is the sequence of events that must have happened

4 Aug 2014. - engine oil was changed, probably along with the filter. oil filter punctured during the installation.
Oil was leaking in very small quantity all these days.
25 dec 2014 engine ran out of oil.

Refer attached picture,
Holy Cow!!! Now i am scared. I do run my car in the parking lot for a full 5 minutes everyday before I start. Now i will add another 5 minutes to that.
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Old 17th March 2015, 15:30   #62
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by T1000 View Post
Later on, another mechanic explained that it was caused by using incorrect oil filter wrench to install the filter or using too much pressure to tighten the filter.
some garages use filter wrench made of cycle chain, which can damage the filter easily.
You should not use a tool to install an oil filter at all! Oil filters are supposed to be handtightened only! The various filter wrenches are for taking them off, not to put them on!

So your mechanic got it wrong too!

The proper way to install an oil filter is:
- fill it with the same type of oil as in the engine
- apply some oil on the rubber seal
- screw the oil filter on and tighten by hand

That's all!

Jeroen

Last edited by Eddy : 17th March 2015 at 16:18. Reason: fixed the quote
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Old 17th March 2015, 15:40   #63
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
So your mechanic got it wrong too!

The proper way to install an oil filter is:
- fill it with the same type of oil as in the engine
- apply some oil on the rubber seal
- screw the oil filter on and tighten by hand

That's all!

Jeroen
you are right, but the normal practice i have seen in workshop is to use a wrench.
The new oilfilter in my case too was installed using a "proper" wrench, the mechanic demonstrated how gentle one should be while tightening...
I have had more problems because of inexperienced/careless mechanics at the authorised service center

Last edited by T1000 : 17th March 2015 at 15:43.
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Old 17th March 2015, 16:08   #64
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Originally Posted by T1000 View Post
you are right, but the normal practice i have seen in workshop is to use a wrench.
The new oilfilter in my case too was installed using a "proper" wrench, the mechanic demonstrated how gentle one should be while tightening...
I have had more problems because of inexperienced/careless mechanics at the authorised service center

No, that is not the normal procedure, it is the wrong procedure.
With a tool you are very likely to over-tighten, or worse damage the filter.
Over tightening isn't a big thing perse, as long as it doesn't damage the filter.

Its impossible to damage the filer, or over tighten using your hand.

When you have to take the filter off, it really doesn't matter how much damage you do. If the filter is badly stuck, I just hammer a big screwdriver through and twist.

Jeroen
Jeroen
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Old 17th March 2015, 16:48   #65
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
This is nonsense from Honda. So any Honda diesel car revved beyond 4000 rpm loses it's engine warranty?
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Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
How will revvs go beyond the limiter ?
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Originally Posted by autocrat View Post
We all know the ECU is programmed to cut off fuel at a certain rpm to either limit speed, or to protect the engine. Why did Honda not limit revs to safe limits then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
Why did Honda not have the rev limiter if it knew the engine will blow up if revved beyond red line?
Guys,

This is called over-revving and any engine is vulnerable to that, not just Honda. No ECU can do anything in this situation. It's purely mechanical. You can over-revv even WITHOUT your foot on the accelerator. This is different from redlining.

Over-revving basically means shifting too low at too high a speed. Whoever has suffered it has done it by error. Say, you are on the expressway cruising at 120 kph and mistakenly downshift to 2nd (instead of 4th). I've had my own brother do that, but luckily, the speed wasn't too high. Here's a video showing a poor engine suffering over-revving:



Here's another guy shifting from 3rd to 2nd (instead of 4th) at high rpm:


Quote:
Originally Posted by adityasiera View Post
I do run my car in the parking lot for a full 5 minutes everyday before I start. Now i will add another 5 minutes to that.
5 minutes?! That's overkill buddy . Within 5 minutes of starting a car, I'm usually in another zip code.

Last edited by GTO : 17th March 2015 at 16:51.
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Old 17th March 2015, 17:02   #66
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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5 minutes?! That's overkill buddy . Within 5 minutes of starting a car, I'm usually in another zip code.
Lol i agree, but of late after getting the RE, i have warmed up to the concept of warming up.

I typically fire on all cylinders after my first smoke of the day, and it takes me about 5 mintues for that

Last edited by adityasiera : 17th March 2015 at 17:05.
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Old 17th March 2015, 21:44   #67
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Update :

Guys some good news. Honda replied to the mail sent by my friend.Following is their reply.

"Dear Mr. Madangopal,

This is with reference to your trailing communication addressed to our (President and CEO Mr. H Kanayama), regarding your concern with your Honda Amaze car.

We sincerely regret for inconvenience caused to you. We wish to inform you that your communication has been forwarded to us for further action and follow up.

We acknowledge your communication and assure you that we are getting the details regarding to your concern from our dealership M/s Hallmark Honda, Mumbai. We will revert to you with details on your concern soon.

Further we wish to inform you that handling of all feedbacks / grievances received from Honda car customers in India has been entrusted to Honda Customer Relations. We would hence be your single point contact for all further communications regarding your above communication. You can write to us at customer_relations@hondacarindia.com or speak to our customer service helpline Honda One2One at 1800113121 or 01139898918.

Thanking you and assuring you best of service and products.

Regards,

Arti Mishra

Customer Relationship Management
Honda Cars India Ltd., Greater Noida"

Once again thanks a lot guys for all you support, now waiting for dealer call back. I will update the feedback or action from the H.A.S.S

Thanks,
Parimal G

Last edited by Aditya : 19th March 2015 at 12:17. Reason: Spacing
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Old 17th March 2015, 23:04   #68
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Oh crap! the connecting roads have given away, so i think the series of event is either:

1- Connecting road snapping and leading to all this cracks leaks and what not.
Images at post 50 - it does look that something has come out from inside - broken metal is kind of lifted outwards - that's what can be made from the low resolution picture , this can be easily verified on physical inspection

Last edited by Turbanator : 17th March 2015 at 23:10.
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Old 17th March 2015, 23:10   #69
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by adityasiera View Post
I typically fire on all cylinders after my first smoke of the day, and it takes me about 5 mintues for that
Best method to warm up is to allow the engine to warm up gradually by running the car at normal speeds through the gears.
But idling the engine is also OK, but definitely not by firing on all cylinders.

Last edited by rajeev k : 17th March 2015 at 23:14.
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Old 18th March 2015, 10:18   #70
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

The method i choose to warm up the engine is
1> Keeping the car idling for 30 secs.
2> Then limiting the rpm till max 2000 till the temp gauge goes till half mark.
3> whenever possible i switch on ac only after the temp gauge reaches to half mark.
4> but i have relined my car many times and it goes till 5200 RMP.
5> In fact my service adviser advised my to rev the car after the temp needle reaches to half level just to remove the unburnt fuel and clean the silencer.
6> Also for long drives i strictly follow this procedure while switching off the engine as well. First switch off the AC, wait for 30 secs then switch off the engine.
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Old 18th March 2015, 10:21   #71
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by T1000 View Post
Later on, another mechanic explained that it was caused by using incorrect oil filter wrench to install the filter or using too much pressure to tighten the filter.
some garages use filter wrench made of cycle chain, which can damage the filter easily.,
Quite possible, a good mechanic checks filter and drain nuts after refilling oil, after running the engine for a minute or two. Now makes more sense
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Old 18th March 2015, 10:44   #72
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

I dont think the company can claim red lining as a reason to void the warranty. If the ECU is having the stock map, Honda themselves knows the rpm even w/o checking the ECU codes as there will always be a Rev Limiter to protect the engine\turbo\injectors and associated parts. So if they are claiming that its red lined beyond the capability of the engine then the problem is with their ECU map and the rev limiter in that, not the user. Moreover none of the engines are utilised at 100% capacity to damage immediately once it reaches the max rpm or the embedded rev limiter, usually it will be 75-80% max, so even if it reaches the redline, it can tolerate for a long time.

If possible try to find the root cause of the issue.
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Old 18th March 2015, 10:59   #73
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by ::CMS:: View Post
I dont think the company can claim red lining as a reason to void the warranty. If the ECU is having the stock map, Honda themselves knows the rpm even w/o checking the ECU codes as there will always be a Rev Limiter to protect the engine\turbo\injectors and associated parts. So if they are claiming that its red lined beyond the capability of the engine then the problem is with their ECU map and the rev limiter in that, not the user. Moreover none of the engines are utilised at 100% capacity to damage immediately once it reaches the max rpm or the embedded rev limiter, usually it will be 75-80% max, so even if it reaches the redline, it can tolerate for a long time.

If possible try to find the root cause of the issue.
Actually they can. Lets say you are at 100, and downshift to second gear. Sure you ECU is not going to limit a gearshift. Your rpm will go much beyond the redline and you will wreck the engine.
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Old 18th March 2015, 11:18   #74
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Originally Posted by parimal_g View Post
The method i choose to warm up the engine is

1> Keeping the car idling for 30 secs.

2> Then limiting the rpm till max 2000 till the temp gauge goes till half mark.

3> whenever possible i switch on ac only after the temp gauge reaches to half mark.

4> but i have relined my car many times and it goes till 5200 RMP.

5> In fact my service adviser advised my to rev the car after the temp needle reaches to half level just to remove the unburnt fuel and clean the silencer.

6> Also for long drives i strictly follow this procedure while switching off the engine as well. First switch off the AC, wait for 30 secs then switch off the engine.

You should start the engine and move away immediately. Don't idle. You should wait revving the engine until the temp is showing normal operating temperature. Be aware, your temp gauge shows the coolant temp, not the oil temp. The oil temp will lag behind! Until such time you should be careful with your right foot.

The advise of your SA is rubbish.

There is really no need to idle. The AC has no real material affect at all. It only draws a few horsepower, so that is not going to make a difference on when you switch it on or off. On most modern cars the AC even if left switched on, is disabled automatically during the engine start. That is more about the battery and to try and have the engine fire up as quickly as possible. Once it fires, it will engage then AC if you left it on.
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Old 18th March 2015, 11:19   #75
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Actually they can. Lets say you are at 100, and downshift to second gear. Sure you ECU is not going to limit a gearshift. Your rpm will go much beyond the redline and you will wreck the engine.
These cases are extreme and the engine damage will be the last as there are drive shafts / clutch and other associated parts to get damaged before that, but not at the first couple of "attempts".

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 18th March 2015 at 11:22.
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