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Old 18th March 2015, 11:44   #76
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Quote:
Originally Posted by parimal_g View Post
Update :

Guys some good news. Honda replied to the mail sent by my friend.Following is their reply.

.....

Once again thanks a lot guys for all you support, now waiting for dealer call back. I will update the feedback or action from the H.A.S.S

Thanks ,
Parimal G

That's some good news. Keep up the pressure and followup if HASS doesn't call back within 24 hrs. They will try to talk you into settling 50-50 kind of offers "as a special case" - But totally depends on you whether you want to accept it or not. Next, I hope this lady Arti will call you and give a solution/assurance. She will most probably tell you not to email the President and CEO again, but be upfront and tell her that if your concerns aren't resolved, you are free to escalate.

All the best.
Cheers!

Last edited by benbsb29 : 19th March 2015 at 05:47. Reason: Trimmed long quoted post for benefit of mobile users.
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Old 18th March 2015, 14:01   #77
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Guys my friend has received following communication from Honda. I doubt Honda will change its stand. Is it possible to appoint any third party check to confirm the claims made by Honda Service Center.

What should be my friends next action..?
Is there any point fighting a Legal case with the Honda.?
Or going to consumer court will help.?


----------------------------------------------Response----------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Madangopal,

This is in continuation to our trailing mail regarding your Honda Amaze.


At the outset, we sincerely regret to learn of your feedback.

While following up on your concern with M/s Hallmark Honda, Mumbai, we understand that necessary clarifications pertaining to your concern have already been shared with you. However, we would like to submit the following :

A detailed inspection of your car was carried out by our dealership M/s Hallmark Honda, Mumbai for your concern of engine not starting wherein damage to engine and related parts were observed. During the inspection it was observed that the oil filter was damaged due to external impact which led to leakage of engine oil. The damage to engine and related parts is a consequential damage, post the external impact on the oil filter.

All Honda cars are known for best of quality across the world and the car possessed by yourself is equipped with malfunction indicator lamps to alert the driver in case of any such events. It is advisable not to use the car after any such damage, as in the absence of engine oil which acts as a coolant and lubricant for metal to metal contact taking place within the engine, which may lead to major damages.

From the above it is established that the damage done has occurred due to external causes. Hence we are constrained to consider your request of replacing the parts under warranty.

We understand that your car is parked at our dealership without initiation of repairs. We request you to kindly provide the necessary approval to our dealership for starting the repairs.

For any further concern/query, please contact us at 1800-113-121 or 011-39898918.

Assuring you the best of our services at all times.

Regards,
Arti Mishra
Customer Relationship Management
Honda Cars India Ltd., Greater Noida


----------------------------------------------End of Response ----------------------------------------------
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Old 18th March 2015, 14:45   #78
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

This seems to the standard response based on the interaction of Honda's with the dealership.
I do not see if any of the Honda's technical specialist has gone and checked the car. This should be escalated to the President again as no new information has been provided here.
I would stay away from Honda, as the original cost of rebuilding (cost-to-company) should not be more than a lac (they can always bill customer for 2.7 lacs) while the bad name they are earning here is much more..but as they say, their cars are world class and so is their reputation !
Sorry to see this response from Honda.
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Old 18th March 2015, 14:49   #79
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Quote:
Originally Posted by parimal_g View Post
Guys my friend has received following communication from Honda. I doubt Honda will change its stand. Is it possible to appoint any third party check to confirm the claims made by Honda Service Center.

What should be my friends next action..?
Is there any point fighting a Legal case with the Honda.?
Or going to consumer court will help.?
When you posted Honda's acknowledgement on the mail sent to them i kind of knew that nothing much would come out of it. I am not a Honda customer but I emailed them one of my concerns about the Amaze and their reply was least useful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by parimal_g View Post
----------------------------------------------Response----------------------------------------------

A detailed inspection of your car was carried out by our dealership M/s Hallmark Honda, Mumbai for your concern of engine not starting wherein damage to engine and related parts were observed. During the inspection it was observed that the oil filter was damaged due to external impact which led to leakage of engine oil. The damage to engine and related parts is a consequential damage, post the external impact on the oil filter.
Its is quite clear and evident from the picture that the oil filter was NOT damaged due to external impact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parimal_g View Post
All Honda cars are known for best of quality across the world...
Not any more Honda, atleast not in India.
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Old 18th March 2015, 15:07   #80
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

It's tangential to the thread, but don't people realize that red is red for a reason? It means don't! Otherwise they might have made it green.

Accelerating to the red line before changing gear is one thing; it probably only costs vast amounts of petrol. Running in the red zone, even for short periods, is just asking for trouble if not engine destruction. Engine builders may provide some sort of mechanical or electronic rev limiter --- but are they obliged to protect against extreme misuse? Misuse that might be wrongly called "fun" by some people? No, I don't think they are. You all know the joke about the number of nuts in a car and the nut behind the wheel.
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Old 18th March 2015, 15:15   #81
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Guys,

This is called over-revving and any engine is vulnerable to that, not just Honda. No ECU can do anything in this situation. It's purely mechanical. You can over-revv even WITHOUT your foot on the accelerator. This is different from redlining.

code.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Actually they can. Lets say you are at 100, and downshift to second gear. Sure you ECU is not going to limit a gearshift. Your rpm will go much beyond the redline and you will wreck the engine.

Even if someone downshifts by mistake this will be momentary and too short an instance to damage an engine . Revvs will drop immediately unless someone keeps gunning the accelerator.
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Old 18th March 2015, 15:20   #82
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

If your friend is absolutely sure that there was no external impact, then escalate to next level and then to consumer court.

A Honda technician should assess this with whatever gadgets or technologies they have and provide a detailed report.

If taken to a consumer court, the court might appoint an independent agency to investigate. It's going to be a bit of tedious process.

But yes, if this is indeed a manufacturing defect then Honda's reputation is going to be at stake not because of the defect but the way they responded.

Last edited by adarsh76 : 18th March 2015 at 15:24.
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Old 18th March 2015, 15:20   #83
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Escalations, Emails & Calls all will go to deaf Ears in Honda.
On top of it now the Service Center will be waiting to churn some extra bucks as Estimate /Parking Charges.
Fixing a Oil Filter using a Faulty procedure in an Authorized Service Center cannot be blamed to the Owner.

Please dont waste much time.
Collect as much evidence as you can and file a consumer court complaint.
You will be amazed how powerful these Consumer complaints are!
Apart from the damages, the Fees paid to your Advocate will also be reimbursed.
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Old 18th March 2015, 20:12   #84
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

This is ridiculous attitude from Honda. We cant see any scratch marks on and around Oil filter. To me it's a clear case of quality. Feeling sad for your friend parimal. This is shocking story of Indian consumers and manuf. exploiting the situations.

Hope Honda guys open their eyes and accept their fault rather than punishing the poor owner. This is just ridiculous!!!!
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Old 18th March 2015, 22:46   #85
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

My sympathies with the owner. Though it's been a long time since I shifted away from Honda to other makes, there are a few suggestions to all vehicle owners:

a) NEVER trust the instrument cluster fully. Do your bit. Check the engine oil, coolant and brake fluids before you drive off from your garage especially if it's for a long drive. Pump the brakes at low speeds to check if they retard speed and respond normally.

b) Ditto for the electrical system - the alternator light tells you something is wrong after the fault has occurred. Get your alternator checked at regular intervals by the dealer or a competent electrician. An alternator may be out of sight, but do not let it go of your mind. Had an alternator failure in one of my cars and trust me driving it to the repair facility was like walking on eggshells. Never knew when the petrol engine would just stall. If you have aftermarket stereos installed, make sure the wiring is protected by a fuse to prevent electrical fires.

c) DO NOT assume the dealer does a perfect job. Once again, give the car a once over before driving off from the dealer/service station. Most dealers do a check before delivering the car. BUT check the engine oil, brake fluid and coolant levels **yourself** before leaving. For obvious reasons these are the most important fluids in your car. I'd rather run out of fuel than any one of these. Trust me, this seemingly minor check prevented a major engine damage with my car a decade ago.

These are not complicated checks but regular ones that each owners manual prescribes as a daily/weekly routine for all owners.

d) Check the brakes after replacement pads/liners are installed. Brakes take a 50-100 kms of driving to "bed in". The brakes will be slightly less effective as they were before the new parts were installed.

A more recent example. In 2013, had the coolant in my Corolla Altis replaced after the car turned 5 years old. When I went over to the dealer to bring her back home, I opened the hood and was rather surprised to see the coolant bottle empty. Why? Most of it had been sucked into the radiator after the old coolant was drained. There are ALWAYS air pockets when you replace the coolant. When the coolant cools it contracts and the vacuum sucks in all the coolant from the bottle into the radiator. All I did was buy some extra coolant and top up the expansion bottle. Went back home a happy camper. A less than perfect job and the service advisor got an earful from me. A normal owner would have just driven off without checking the car. And you know what that could lead to.

At the end I'd like to say - modern cars are reliable but the owner MUST take pains to check the car and perform routine checks. There's a reason why the most over engineered, sophisticated and reliable modes of transport known to man i.e aircraft are checked every time they land. Pilots cannot trust the instrument cluster to report on a faulty tyre or a small hydraulic leak.

Referring to the incident in this thread, a leaking block or sump would have left dripped oil in the garage or parking space. Something to ALWAYS look for, I still do. A hangover from the Hindustan Ambassador and Premier Padmini days

Hope the OP's friend gets a satisfactory solution. Good luck

Last edited by R2D2 : 18th March 2015 at 22:48.
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Old 19th March 2015, 00:03   #86
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

I guess your friend should approach the consumer court for defective product or defective workmanship.
To deny warranty or insurance, Honda will have to prove there was an external impact. If they can't prove it, they must pay.
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Old 19th March 2015, 02:30   #87
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Am sure people at Honda are following this thread.

MASS was always a plesent experience for us, you know small things, dents/ scratches FOC.
Our new car took more than the usual abuse as three new drivers were using it and learning with it.
Zero knowledge and experience regarding a car, but MASS took care of us. We never had any situation where they refused as a user fault,
though it was always.

This is not to go more in the extended warranty and zero dep as in the case of the car which started this thread.

Companies strive to better the experience, and for similar case how Honda N America reacts can be a case study.

It is more to with culture, maintaining and retaing a customer, then a churn, and a new customer acquisition cost, may be a secret of MSIL.

I just visited Honda once for small car inquiry, this was pre Brio launch.
From a distance I saw a small car parked facing the dealership.
I got super exicited as everyone was during those time, after all a Honda.
A small car for us in India by same Honda.

Security gard the first person I inquired was, it ( Brio) is yet to come.
So what is the one standing, and was politely told its a Maruti, an Estillo.

Post few months saw one white Brio in reality, and the back view was just very unique.

Finally to me Honda N America product is a reliable pleasent experience, and Maruti does same in India.
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Old 19th March 2015, 09:55   #88
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Yes, this more likely seems to be a casting defect.
But, since the driver of the car never came across any warning light from the car, does this incident showcase another flaw of the oil pressure sensor failure?
If there was a warning light and the driver failed to notice it, why don't manufacturers try and provide an audible warning along while the warning light lights up?
Yeah, it is annoying to have any audible warning going up continuously when the vehicle is in a state where it can be driven given that the warning is not a serious concern, there could also be a provision to disable the warning tone.
It is quite obvious that during highway runs some drivers fail to check the console for any warning lights frequently, but an audible warning definitely helps.
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Old 19th March 2015, 10:50   #89
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

OP - I would second most others. Do pursue the matter up with Honda management, document the facts, collect evidence and file up a case in case they dont mend their ways.

But going forward do take care of your vehicle, service center guys are also human. A small human error like loose oil fiter, may cost an engine. Do check!! the basic fluids at least once a day before you start your car in the morning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
Best method to warm up is to allow the engine to warm up gradually by running the car at normal speeds through the gears.
But idling the engine is also OK, but definitely not by firing on all cylinders.
The car fires on all cylinders buddy, all the time. We don't have cylinder shutdown mechanisms on any mass produced cars in India. This was about the driver.
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Old 19th March 2015, 10:56   #90
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Default Re: Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service

Typical response, i don't think Honda has a mechanism that can independently verify and report back the case. They are just blindly going with the dealership response of the situation. From the pictures shared even a layman like me is quite convinced that there is no external impact that has happened on oil filter or casting. Casting infact seems to have been opened up from inside impact.

Suggestion is to pursue the insurance angle, since for convincing Honda it will be another Skoda saga with a consumer case and what not.
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