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Old 28th September 2016, 06:15   #76
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Default Re: Ertiga, Dzire & Swift: Gearbox Synchronizer Failure

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Originally Posted by adi_sun View Post
Maruti is taking us for a royal ride here when people are asked to change the clutch plate, pressure plate and bearing with it. A total of about 18k with labour of a whooping 4k.
Not sure how long the current one will hold.
It's really frustrating as more and more stories like this are coming up. It is clear that we have made a wrong choice by trusting the Maruti Suzuki brand. Please keep us informed on how the current repair holds for the record. I would suggest you too get more proactive about getting Maruti Suzuki to acknowledge that all it's diesel cars are facing problems. Just by increasing mileage by a paltry amount under testing, they can't sell us badly engineered cars. This publicity even affects the retail value of our cars so Maruti Suzuki is counting on us keeping our mouths shut.


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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
That makes it a strong case for redesigning the gear-box components and recalling the faulty ones and getting them replaced with the new design one. If the affected TBHP members here form a kind of pressure group and influence the manufacturer to take cognizance of this issue and compel them for a recall then I think that would be the best use of this forum
Maruti Suzuki is selling tens of thousands of these defective cars every month and taking all of us for a royal ride. It makes absolutely no economical sense for them take any kind of initiative because their greed ends at selling the diesel cars. On the other hand, doing work on the gearbox of each vehicle sold multiple times in it's lifetime has become the bread-and-butter for Maruti authorised service centres it seems. Why would they disturb the equation?

I recon more aggressive action should be taken towards educating other gullible consumers. At least others should know all aspects of buying a Maruti Suzuki car and not just see the earlier reputation of their mechanical design and ASS. As the Indian consumer gets more aware, he researches for reviews online. At least he should make an informed decision weighing all the pros and cons of buying a Maruti Suzuki diesel vehicle in the future especially the Ertiga given it's badly designed gearbox.

The only way Maruti Suzuki is going to treat it's customers well is if they suffer long-term economic losses to their more deserving competition. Sad!
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Old 28th September 2016, 19:02   #77
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Default Re: Ertiga, Dzire & Swift: Gearbox Synchronizer Failure

Though it is of topic and maybe in itself could become an interesting thread., I think Maruti Suzuki is no longer value . Spare and service parts are no longer cheap.
Also I don't think the spares are really long lasting. In spite of the car being cared for in just 47000km I have had dead axle changed under warranty, drivers seat belt assembly changed under warranty, the Nippon head unit repaired twice under warranty. ( still bad ) Both rear struts busted changed. Front lower arms replaced due to play in ball joints, front struts changed at the same time as ride had deteriorated horribly.
Front brake pads changed at 41k . Cost Rs.3500/- ( that's more than ones in xylo / safari I suppose.owners can confirm..) .
In spite of all this there is body rattle , noise in door trims, seat mechanism and some weird front knocking noise which they haven't been able to diagnose which happens only when the car is cold). Gear slotting has become quite hard after 40000km service gear oil change and the clutch set is possibly on the way out... Much too much for a 2013 Nov car with only 47000 km on the odo.
My wife drives a Qjt Vista which has done about 48000km still on a original suspension with no rattle anywhere. And that is a Tata diesel...much better build quality than the Ertiga.
I do not think I would buy any Maruti after this. The build quality is pathetic and the service has become relatively costly. Some spares are actually costly and not even as long lasting .
The co. A.S.S. Puts 0-20 w engine oil which evaporates rapidly. Service quality , cleaning is also nothing to write about. All the smoothness of engine and read de quality has deteriorated much too early. Very disappointing .
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Old 29th September 2016, 11:37   #78
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Default Re: Ertiga, Dzire & Swift: Gearbox Synchronizer Failure

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Originally Posted by HIGHNOON View Post
Though it is of topic and maybe in itself could become an interesting thread., I think Maruti Suzuki is no longer value . Spare and service parts are no longer cheap.
Also I don't think the spares are really long lasting. In spite of the car being cared for in just 47000km I have had dead axle changed under warranty, drivers seat belt assembly changed under warranty, the Nippon head unit repaired twice under warranty. ( still bad ) Both rear struts busted changed. Front lower arms replaced due to play in ball joints, front struts changed at the same time as ride had deteriorated horribly.
Front brake pads changed at 41k . Cost Rs.3500/- ( that's more than ones in xylo / safari I suppose.owners can confirm..) .
In spite of all this there is body rattle , noise in door trims, seat mechanism and some weird front knocking noise which they haven't been able to diagnose which happens only when the car is cold). Gear slotting has become quite hard after 40000km service gear oil change and the clutch set is possibly on the way out... Much too much for a 2013 Nov car with only 47000 km on the odo.
My wife drives a Qjt Vista which has done about 48000km still on a original suspension with no rattle anywhere. And that is a Tata diesel...much better build quality than the Ertiga.
I do not think I would buy any Maruti after this. The build quality is pathetic and the service has become relatively costly. Some spares are actually costly and not even as long lasting .
The co. A.S.S. Puts 0-20 w engine oil which evaporates rapidly. Service quality , cleaning is also nothing to write about. All the smoothness of engine and read de quality has deteriorated much too early. Very disappointing .
Sorry to hear about your bad ownership experience. I'm sorry as you are your choosing the Maurti Suzuki brand. It is indeed no longer cheap to maintain. A car that is routinely maintained in a MASS should not face so many repairs. I'm sure there will be many Maruti Suzuki owners of their current cars that will move on to using other brands. Basic mechanical components like the gearbox should be reliable at least. And Maruti was known for their affordable spare parts. But if we have to keep changing the same spare part again and again, then waste of time and mental torture factor-in too.

The owners of Ertiga Diesel who have faced the synchronizer issue should come forward. We need to take collective action for such problems that are being faced by what seems to be almost every other owner.
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Old 6th November 2016, 14:37   #79
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Default Re: Ertiga, Dzire & Swift: Gearbox Synchronizer Failure

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Originally Posted by motomaniax View Post
The owners of Ertiga Diesel who have faced the synchronizer issue should come forward. We need to take collective action for such problems that are being faced by what seems to be almost every other owner.
Yesterday on my return from Shirdi, I faced this issue of not able to shift back to 2nd Gear from 3rd Gear on the ghats. When asked at the ASS - I am quoted 15000 as the final cost. Not sure what and why.

My thought is if this is a known issue there should have been a recall from the Company. Also same engine used in Punto or Linea does not have the problem why in Maruti.

My ertiga is 2013 52000 done. Since not extended warranty was taken, I am stuck. Any advice
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Old 9th November 2016, 21:03   #80
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Default Re: Ertiga, Dzire & Swift: Gearbox Synchronizer Failure

I read this whole post and I am highly surprised that this is a fairly common issue! Had happened to my Ritz VDI wherein the gear won't budge beyond the third and fourth gear (used to shift like 1-2-5! ) just after 30k mark and the service center here in Vadodara(Kiran motors) did not have the synchronizer ring and took almost 2 months to get one.
Now that my car is out of warranty and clocked 10k kms more in the past one year, I am a bit worried that I might have to incur more expenses anytime soon!
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Old 13th November 2016, 10:35   #81
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Default Re: Ertiga, Dzire & Swift: Gearbox Synchronizer Failure

My friend's ZDI at 40,000+ has the same issue. Car refuses to slot in 2nd and as mentioned by .a, has to be fooled into believeing that I am slotting 1st and then it goes into 2nd. And the car is out of warranty. Any way Maruti covers this?
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Old 15th November 2016, 18:01   #82
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Default Re: Ertiga, Dzire & Swift: Gearbox Synchronizer Failure

I am also facing same issue with my Ertiga Zdi, not able to shift from 3rd to 2nd gear. My car clocked 54000 km and out of extended warranty.

Visited today MASS and they told me too need to change sync ring and clutch.
I just searched and found this thread. This means it's a very common issue with Ertiga.
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Old 15th November 2016, 18:17   #83
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Default Re: Ertiga, Dzire & Swift: Gearbox Synchronizer Failure

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
And the car is out of warranty. Any way Maruti covers this?
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Originally Posted by sarbpreet View Post
Visited today MASS and they told me too need to change sync ring and clutch.
I just searched and found this thread. This means it's a very common issue with Ertiga.
Tough luck there and welcome to the group! My Ertiga too was out of Extended Warranty not due to age but the Kms clocked when this happened.

To me this happened first time at 97,000 and I have seen that for most others the issue crops up as early as 30,000-50,000 kms.

I paid completely out of pocket for all the expenses - Parts and Labor as I accepted the fact that there was nothing that could have been done.
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Old 24th November 2016, 18:12   #84
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Default Re: Ertiga, Dzire & Swift: Gearbox Synchronizer Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by HIGHNOON View Post
Though it is of topic and maybe in itself could become an interesting thread., I think Maruti Suzuki is no longer value . Spare and service parts are no longer cheap.
Also I don't think the spares are really long lasting. In spite of the car being cared for in just 47000km I have had dead axle changed under warranty, drivers seat belt assembly changed under warranty, the Nippon head unit repaired twice under warranty. ( still bad ) Both rear struts busted changed. Front lower arms replaced due to play in ball joints, front struts changed at the same time as ride had deteriorated horribly.
Front brake pads changed at 41k . Cost Rs.3500/- ( that's more than ones in xylo / safari I suppose.owners can confirm..) .
In spite of all this there is body rattle , noise in door trims, seat mechanism and some weird front knocking noise which they haven't been able to diagnose which happens only when the car is cold). Gear slotting has become quite hard after 40000km service gear oil change and the clutch set is possibly on the way out... Much too much for a 2013 Nov car with only 47000 km on the odo.
My wife drives a Qjt Vista which has done about 48000km still on a original suspension with no rattle anywhere. And that is a Tata diesel...much better build quality than the Ertiga.
I do not think I would buy any Maruti after this. The build quality is pathetic and the service has become relatively costly. Some spares are actually costly and not even as long lasting .
The co. A.S.S. Puts 0-20 w engine oil which evaporates rapidly. Service quality , cleaning is also nothing to write about. All the smoothness of engine and read de quality has deteriorated much too early. Very disappointing .

AHA! the perfect time for me to pitch in and say something here. Without prejudice, Without naming them, let me quote some very very senior members on this forum who are die-hard loyalists of Maruti and its cars. They have been repeatedly taking me to task and have been vehemently denying the fact what you have mentioned in your post above. I also own a Maruti ritz VDI. The problem of gear failure that we discuss here is a known issue to maruti and their service technicians are very well aware about this fact that the issue is sure to crop up in all these vehicles at some point of time. The reason why i am so sure here is the fact that on my third service, i had reported the gear shifting issue after i got the car back from service. One technician was sent to my residence. Most probably he was drunk as early as 10 in the morning. He inspected the car and gave me one tip. While changing gears(Any gear to any gear), he asked me to bring the gear to neutral and just move it a little in neutral and then move to required gear. When i asked him, he said that "Sir, there are different rings there and doing so will help them settle down to their Original place". Although this was very weird, but i followed it. Now i think that it made sense of what he was trying to explain to me. The car has run for approximately 80000 kms now and is still going strong without any problem in gearbox and clutch.

Secondly, i fully second you views above of the fact that maruti is now resorting to cheating its unsuspecting customers. This statement may upset the loyalists and patrons who have their fair share of royalty from Maruti Suzuki.

Last edited by Aditya : 25th November 2016 at 08:09. Reason: Last sentence was not necessary
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Old 3rd December 2016, 23:34   #85
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Default Re: Ertiga, Dzire & Swift: Gearbox Synchronizer Failure

Wanted to update my story so far to help other other victims of the Ertiga synchronizer ring issue. The privilege of being my 'saviours' went to Rohan Motors, Greater Noida.

As I had mentioned earlier, I faced the notorious Synchronizer ring issue for the first time in my extended warranty period on March 15th 2016 at 38K kms on the odo. I was advised to change the clutch set along with the lower gear synchronizer rings which I declined. However, they did take my car in for repair and replaced the synchronizer for a total charge of Rs 1731. I was alright with replacing the transmission fluid as it was due anyways for the 40K service. The bill was as follows:

Seal, Input Shaft Oil x 1 =~ Rs. 28
CirClip x 1 =~ Rs. 5
Seal, Diff Side Oil RH x 1 =~ Rs. 155
Seal, Diff Side Oil LH x 1 =~ Rs. 118
Liquid Gasket (Three Bond-1207C),100 x 1 =~ Rs. 353
MGGO(75W90) x 2 =~ Rs. 977
Ring Assy, Low Gear Sync x 2 =~ Rs. 1450 (Covered under warranty so it was free)

Subsequently I drove the car without any issue for the next 8 months until the issue resurfaced and I had complained about it to the GM of service at the MASS. This time, my car was just out of extended warranty and had only about 47K kms on the odo. As a matter of principle I was unwilling to pay out of my pocket because the last repairs had failed. After a very high-level complaint, the GM called me for a running repair and changed the synchronizer rings again on 14th October 2016 at a total cost of Rs. 0. Thats right, zilch! This time there were three interesting probable lies I was told by the MASS people.

1. I had asked the mechanic working on the gearbox how long do new synchronizer rings last on the diesel Ertigas. He replied 'sir 20000 kms to chal jaayega'. I thought to myself, 'Are we supposed to consider Ertiga synch ring replacement as part of routine maintenance now?'.

2. I had asked the service adviser when the gearbox was being reassembled if my clutch is alright because if it was not, I was prepared to replace it this time. He said he had inspected it and there was no issue with it. This was in-line with my judgement that my clutch was absolutely alright.

3. I had asked the service adviser that given the formerly replaced synchronizer rings did not last for even 10K kms, why would they last longer this time around. To which he replied, 'Sir, actually the new rings are upgraded parts by Maruti so there will be no issue'. I assumed that the new rings are made of better alloys.

4. According to the mechanic, the synchronizer gets 'cut' from the strut grooves and there is no problem with the friction part that does the actual synchronisation. I wonder what conditions create forces that can cause this damage and how this can be avoided. I have attached a photo of the damaged portion for reference.

Ertiga, Dzire & Swift: Gearbox Synchronizer Failure-synchro.jpg

To my dismay, even normal gear-shifting had become hard and I thought the new issues would resolve once the parts run-in enough. I painstakingly completed about a 1K km Delhi-Kasauli-Shimla-Delhi mini-vacation on my so-called 'LUV' and by the time I got back, this time, 2nd to 1st stopped slotting. The only way to downshift to first was now either come to a complete halt or double clutch. I was furious. The car had not even run 3K kms after the last repair with ~50K kms on the odo now.

I started haggling with the new GM threatening another complaint to Maruti. He ultimately agreed to do some 'discount' and I was really tired of escalating this issue and did not want to complain about it. My only interest was to get this issue resolved forever so I told them to replace anything they find faulty under-the-sun but I still refused to pay for the synchronizers. This time around, the helpful service adviser informed me that my flywheel has gone bad and needs to be changed too. I agreed. The amount this time came to around Rs. 7735 after a lot of 'reasoning' with the new GM. Thanks to Parag for his invaluable posts I used to validate the work done. The bill of 25th November 2016 was as follows:
Flywheel comp =~ Rs. 1751
Cover Assy,Clutch =~ Rs. 1096
Cylinder Assy,Clutch Slave =~ Rs. 2739
Seal,Input Shaft Oil =~ 28
Liquid Gasket(Three Bond-1215) =~ Rs. 236
Apparently 50% reduced labour charges = Rs. 1800 charged as "Clutch Cover Assy And/Or Clutch Disk Assy)

I took the car home somewhat happy that the gearbox felt better but not getting brand-new-components feel. And on the way, I realised my AC had stopped working. I had to go back twice and haggle a lot more to make them realise that whatever happened to the AC happened inside the service centre so they are responsible. It was found that the gas had leaked from a massive leak in the suction pipe. After a lot of harshly worded argumentation, I got the AC repaired and the pipe replaced for Rs. 0. However, I have a doubt about the genuineness of the suction pipe which I will get checked out. So much for Maruti Service!

I feel my gear slotting is still a little hard and they did lube up the base of the lever. I'm not very satisfied but I will update after a while on this.

So now I'll give my conclusions based on observations after digesting all of this. I hope members with relevant automotive knowledge would comment on these observations.

1. My theory is that on a new clutch/flwheel, the rare bad gearshifts do not cause any damage to the synchronizer. However, on a somewhat worn-out clutch/flywheel, even a slight mis-shift while downshifting will cause the relevant synchro go kaput. I have a doubt that I know the exact point when this happened on my second replaced set.

2. A diesel Ertiga probably shows symptoms of a flywheel/clutch gone bad before this affects the synchronizer rings. In my case, I had noticed a slight vibration, very low-pitched and boomy, that kept increasing and ultimately became very noticeable. This would occur when I accelerated from about 1800 RPM to 2000 RPM at about 70-80 km/h. This had started before the first time the synchronizer ring bug hit my LUV. Initially, I thought this may be related to the the turbocharger but it just vanished after I got the clutch set and flywheel replaced. I also noticed slightly better pickup and mileage. If this is consistent with observations of others, it could be an early indicator that the clutch and/or flywheel need replacement.

3. After building some rapport with the service advisers, they consistantly told me that one reason for this issue is a thick 'mat' and I should use thin mats. It took me a while to understand the relevance. I use 3D mats and a plastic mat as a topping. Maybe, this causes the clutch not to be fully pressed. It seemed like a plausable theory so I have removed the 3D mat.

Hoping this helps others in a similar predicament. If you are willing to get Maruti to reimburse us for the financial losses and mental torture, let's get organised!
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