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Old 18th March 2015, 14:46   #16
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Default re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Hyundai Santro Xing also had a hydraulic power steering setup. Though not an enthusiast's car, but a hydraulic power steering and that low-end torque from the 4-cylinder motor made driving a fun affair !
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Old 18th March 2015, 16:02   #17
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Default re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Here's a list of cars with EPS that I find good:

As far as little hatchbacks go, the Swift comes with a decent setup
Ford's Fiesta comes with brilliant steering as well if a bit over-assisted at low speeds
3 series does a good job electrically assisted as well
So does the Kizashi (one of the reasons I bought the car)
The VAG EPS units are quite nice but have a bit of a loose feel to them which somewhat ruins it for me. So I have not included the Fabia, Polo, Laura, Jetta, A4 in my personal list.
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Old 18th March 2015, 16:23   #18
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Related Thread: Link (Steering Feel & Feedback - Your Nominees for the Best & the Worst!)

However much the EPS evolves, it will never match the feel of a well-tuned Hydraulic power steering. The best hydraulic steerings I've experienced (from affordable cars) are the Civic, Punto / Linea and of course, the ol' Honda City Vtec & Ikon 1.6. It's been a long time since my last spin in one, yet I do remember the Fabia to have a nice steering.

Some of the new EPS are good, although not as delicious as HPS. I like (not love) the steerings of the Fiesta, Bimmer 5 & VW Jetta.

Hyundai (with the new i20) and Tata (with the Bolt & Zest) have much improved their understanding of the EPS. They're no longer nervous.

The best non-power (no hydraulic, no electric) steering belongs to the Maruti 800. If you want feel & feedback, go out & drive it! There's nothing as direct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
There are plenty of cars with hydraulic steering that are to light for my liking.
So true! There are some awful HPS out there. I remember the earlier Scorpios, the Tata Indigo etc. Even the Mercedes E-Class has a dreadful light + dead HPS.
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Old 18th March 2015, 16:38   #19
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

I have owned a Indigo-CS-Tdi, HPS, nothing great to write about, did its job, it did give a horrible kickback/vibration when you locked it fully (HPS are never meant for hard-full locks).

Then I had a 13+year old Armada Grand (elder brother of the Bolero), was too over-servoed to my liking. Made it hard by some rusty methods to increase the feedback.

Currently have a Chevrolet Sail UVA Tdci, HPS - its a breeze and doesnt feel overservoed. It should actually do good even when I upgrade the 185 to a 195 section tyre.
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Old 18th March 2015, 16:51   #20
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Grand Vitara has hydraulic power steering which is a pleasure to use on the highway. On the rare occasions others have driven my car, they have been surprised by the heaviness of the steering, mostly because they drive EPS.
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Old 18th March 2015, 17:25   #21
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

My first encounter with HPS was with the Civic. Felt like the steering systems of simulation games but coupled with great surface feedback! If you appreciate steering behavior, you will love how HPS systems generally weigh up.

But then hydraulic systems also use up some engine power (& affect the FE adversely). Though this may not reflect on the paper specs as every manufacturer out there mentions the BHP at crank, not at wheels. So, in real world, you can expect a tad lesser power output from HPS equipped cars compared to EPS equipped cars; of course when both engines are putting out identical power.
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Old 19th March 2015, 18:02   #22
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

My gripe with EPS is different.

Why cant car manufacturer's offer a switch to adjust the level of assistance of the EPS?
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Old 19th March 2015, 19:51   #23
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbhiJ View Post
Why cant car manufacturer's offer a switch to adjust the level of assistance of the EPS?
Some do : a quote from the BMW M5 Review...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Steering
Comfort : Naturally the lightest setting. I’d probably pick this one for my daily drive in the city. The only difference I could tell between all the steering settings was steering weight. There was no difference in response or feedback. I’m a fan of light steerings and there’s nothing wrong with this light setting during spirited driving. However, in this case, I chose something a little heavier just to mirror the car’s true attributes!

Sport : A nice level of weight. No noticeable change in feedback. Yet again, a good middle of the road option.

Sport+ : Becomes very heavy. Too heavy for in-city driving for most people. It’s almost like the 3-series E90 hydraulic with a larger diameter steering wheel. Once in motion, it’s nice, but probably better for flowing corners than roads with very quick left-rights.

EDIT: Apologies! As pointed out, the M5 actually has a HPS, while the regular F10 5-series gets the EPS.

Last edited by Rehaan : 24th March 2015 at 15:19.
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Old 19th March 2015, 21:39   #24
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Some do : a quote from the BMW M5 Review...
I feel a slight difference in my 320D as well between sport and comfort mode (might be psychological)

My feeling is that this feature should be technically easy to implement and hence become a standard feature on more affordable cars.
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Old 19th March 2015, 21:51   #25
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Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post messages that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further. We request you to post ONLY when you have something substantial to add to a discussion.

Last edited by GTO : 23rd March 2015 at 12:50.
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Old 19th March 2015, 23:07   #26
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbhiJ View Post
I feel a slight difference in my 320D as well between sport and comfort mode (might be psychological)

My feeling is that this feature should be technically easy to implement and hence become a standard feature on more affordable cars.
You're not imagining it. The 320D steering does weight up in Sports mode, and becomes less nervous from my TD experience.

The best HPS will always trump the best EPS. An average HPS will still trump most EPS.

I just love my Lancer's HPS especially after the wheel upgrade i had done. Its easily better than most other HPS cars I have driven.
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Old 19th March 2015, 23:14   #27
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

My car (F30 328i) has the feature you guys are referring to. When you switch to Sports mode, the steering stiffens up quite a bit.

But my point is - that is only stiffness. That doesn't have the feedback and natural road feel that the previous generation (E90) had. It is artifical stiffness, like a really stiff video game console device.

Its not because of suspension. I had my car upgraded to the M-Performance suspension (which is the stiffest, almost comparable to M3's suspension) which make the car stay absolutely flat through corners.

Its not the wheels & tires either. I had those upgraded too.

Its the electric steering. It just doesn't transmit as much feedback as the hydraulic ones.

Having said that, (of all the cars I've driven so far) the BMW electric steering comes closest to the hydraulic feel. Its close, but definitely not there.

The problem is, most people won't notice the difference. We will.

Last edited by GTO : 23rd March 2015 at 12:51. Reason: Typos
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Old 20th March 2015, 01:16   #28
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The Toyota Innova and Fortuner come with hydraulic steering. The HPS unit in my Innova is pretty decent weighs up nicely and gives a decent feedback!!

Till date the best HPS unit I have had the pleasure of using has to be the Fiat Linea's/Punto's absolutely brilliant!

Last edited by Shanksta : 20th March 2015 at 01:18.
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Old 20th March 2015, 03:43   #29
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Potentially an electric system can give you any feel. Perhaps some of the current electrical system are maybe some what limited, but an electrical system is by the very nature superior to anything else. You can make it feel identical to hydraulic system whatever that might be or give it a very different feel.

Just look at fly by wire system on airplane. Any response, any sort of feedback is possible. The 747-800 is a fly by wire aircraft with a normal control yoke as the 747-400 which has a conventional system. Pilots can't tell the difference between the two in feel and response.

We used pneumatic and hydraulic system to control pitch and engine power on ship. Today its all electrical, much more precise and you give it any response you want.

My guess is that also current electrical systems are set up,for what the average owner likes. Its not a limitation in the system, it is actually designed and set up to provide the feel it provides. It feels the way it feels by design, not by chance or limitation

Jeroen
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Old 20th March 2015, 04:20   #30
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Not all EPS units are bad. My BRZ had EPS yet the feel and feedback was good in it but comparing it to my STi I will have to fully agree that hydraulic assist is better.

The major factor I guess why EPS is so common in India is to do with the small capacity engines. Since hydraulic systems run on engine power it does take a small amount of engine performance with it. HPS or EPS shouldn't make a difference to the average buyer.
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