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Old 25th March 2015, 22:41   #61
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

now, i am confused. I thought our Hyundai verna crdi first gen, 2007 make, has hydraulic power steering, with a very bad set up for high ways.(good for city & parking speeds)
Its extremely light and feels disconnected when high speed cornering or on the high ways.

Now i wonder if its got the over corrected HPS or the electro-servo assisted power steering? :|
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Old 26th March 2015, 01:59   #62
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

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Originally Posted by krichared View Post
now, i am confused. I thought our Hyundai verna crdi first gen, 2007 make, has hydraulic power steering, with a very bad set up for high ways.(good for city & parking speeds)
Its extremely light and feels disconnected when high speed cornering or on the high ways.

Now i wonder if its got the over corrected HPS or the electro-servo assisted power steering? :|
Once again - handling and steering feel are two different things.

Even when you look at steering feel itself:
- Hydraulic doesn't necessarily mean great feel by itself
- Electric doesn't necessarily mean crappy feel by itself
- Some electric setups give much better feel than some hydraulic setups

Just that the "best" electric setups, tuned for great feel by the manufacturer, haven't been able to match the corresponding hydraulic setups. Yet.

There were articles about how BMW is trying to achive that in the new F80 M3 and Porsche is trying to achieve it by simulating - yes, simulating - road feedback in the new 911. However in both articles, the reviewer seems to give the impressions that the results are impressive, but not comparable with the old hydraulic setups.

In the context of low-power front-wheel-drive cars, all this doesn't make any difference anyway. However, steering directness/accuracy/precision would still make a difference, that can be equally achieved by both hydraulic and electric steering.

Last edited by rajushank84 : 26th March 2015 at 02:00.
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Old 26th March 2015, 03:07   #63
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Over the last decade, cars with good steering feedback had Hydraulic steering, and most of the EPS were too light and had bad feedback & feel. I feel this had led to a general misconception that a heavy steering is good for an enthusiast.

I think an assisted steering should be as light as possible, without compromising on the preciseness & general feedback.

All the cars I own right now have hydraulic power steering. The Ikon is the best, followed by the Fiesta, The Palio & Manza.

However, I've found the EPS on the All new Ford Fiesta really good.

Last edited by dhanushs : 26th March 2015 at 03:13.
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Old 26th March 2015, 17:35   #64
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
Once again - handling and steering feel are two different things.

Even when you look at steering feel itself:
- Hydraulic doesn't necessarily mean great feel by itself
- Electric doesn't necessarily mean crappy feel by itself
- Some electric setups give much better feel than some hydraulic setups

Just that the "best" electric setups, tuned for great feel by the manufacturer, haven't been able to match the corresponding hydraulic setups. Yet.

There were articles about how BMW is trying to achive that in the new F80 M3 and Porsche is trying to achieve it by simulating - yes, simulating - road feedback in the new 911. However in both articles, the reviewer seems to give the impressions that the results are impressive, but not comparable with the old hydraulic setups.

In the context of low-power front-wheel-drive cars, all this doesn't make any difference anyway. However, steering directness/accuracy/precision would still make a difference, that can be equally achieved by both hydraulic and electric steering.
Thank you for those inputs Raj, i am trying to understand the set up of the Power steering on our car.

I like the heavy steering set-up, like the one in our indica dicor 07. Untill i read this thread, i was under the belief that the HPS have the heavy-ness as an inherent property. But realised its all in how they are calibrated and set-up.

My old school mind is inclined towards to hydraulics over the electric though

on a lighter note,110 BHP is not 'LOW-POWER' agreed its less than half of what you dirve
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Old 27th March 2015, 19:30   #65
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

I gotta say that even though the Ritz has an EPS same unit as the Swift, for some reason the steering in the Ritz feels a lot better and a touch heavier. With the kerb weight of Ritz being a little higher it does make for a little more comfortable driving. Although I must admit any speeds over 120-130 does make you think twice cos of the design.
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Old 5th April 2015, 19:43   #66
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My Dzire has an EPS, which, though it might not be as good as the hydraulic one on the Civic, is still great at giving feedback and weighs up well at higher speeds.

But I've been driving a newer model Honda City recently, and that steering just feels like a toy. Zero feedback. 😐
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Old 6th April 2015, 13:12   #67
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

This is the best explanation for it that I have found so far: A hydraulic assist is always on, so you basically feel an "assisted" version of natural steering, so it comes across as linear and organic. An electric assist on the other hand senses the movement of the wheel and then decides how much assist you add, so it feels non-linear and that can feel unnatural.

That totally makes sense to me.
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Old 6th April 2015, 13:53   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajushank84 View Post
This is the best explanation for it that I have found so far: A hydraulic assist is always on, so you basically feel an "assisted" version of natural steering, so it comes across as linear and organic. An electric assist on the other hand senses the movement of the wheel and then decides how much assist you add, so it feels non-linear and that can feel unnatural.

That totally makes sense to me.

Actually, there are plenty of hydraulic systems out there that are not always on, or at least modulate the assistance. Usually based on speed. So low speed, e.g.at parking will give you maximum assistance, but whilst you cruise the motorway the assistance might be minimal. By the way that is also how a non assisted steering set up will feel, so if anything more pronounced especially at lower sppeds, for ease of use.

Jeroen
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Old 6th April 2015, 14:21   #69
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

I have a question.
I own both the old Swift and the new one. The steering on the older one seems much more direct and not loose like the one on the new model Swift. I enjoy driving the older one a lot more for this reason.

Could someone tell me if the new model Maruti Swift has this electric steering and the older one Hydraulic? or is there some other reasoning to the loose/lifeless steering?
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Old 6th April 2015, 17:19   #70
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

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Originally Posted by Maky View Post
I have a question.
I own both the old Swift and the new one. The steering on the older one seems much more direct and not loose like the one on the new model Swift. I enjoy driving the older one a lot more for this reason.

Could someone tell me if the new model Maruti Swift has this electric steering and the older one Hydraulic? or is there some other reasoning to the loose/lifeless steering?
Both the old Swift and the new one come with Electric Power Steering. Perhaps your new model might have some other suspension or steering related issues.
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Old 5th June 2015, 09:52   #71
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Actually, there are plenty of hydraulic systems out there that are not always on, or at least modulate the assistance. Usually based on speed. So low speed, e.g.at parking will give you maximum assistance, but whilst you cruise the motorway the assistance might be minimal. By the way that is also how a non assisted steering set up will feel, so if anything more pronounced especially at lower sppeds, for ease of use.

Jeroen
Level of assist in a HPS setup can vary with speed as you say but in kt understanding HPS is always ON - a base level of assist always remains.
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Old 5th November 2015, 23:22   #72
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Lovely post; thanks for starting, and all the later comments.

I came across it as I am searching (since a while) for the 'right' second car. I have been "spoilt" earlier by Daewoo Matiz and Palio 1.2 Sport and presently the Linea T-jet.

I am looking for a small (non-premium hatchback) used car. I need something with similar steering feedback and feel. .. and somehow my search keeps bringing me back to the Palio.

Any other suggestions for a reliable cheap (5 digits or low 6 digits hopefully)?

Thanks in advance
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Old 6th November 2015, 01:28   #73
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

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Lovely post; thanks for starting, and all the later comments.

I came across it as I am searching (since a while) for the 'right' second car. I have been "spoilt" earlier by Daewoo Matiz and Palio 1.2 Sport and presently the Linea T-jet.

I am looking for a small (non-premium hatchback) used car. I need something with similar steering feedback and feel. .. and somehow my search keeps bringing me back to the Palio.

Any other suggestions for a reliable cheap (5 digits or low 6 digits hopefully)?

Thanks in advance
The Palio was great but there are plenty of other options:

Fiesta 1.6 - Small yet well proportioned little go-kart of a sedan with a beautiful rev happy motor, a suspension setup that reacts just how you need it to, a satisfyingly weighted precise steering that lets you know exactly what the tyres are upto, lovely gearbox with short throws and well thought out pedal travel combined with straightforward ergonomics, makes this an all time favorite. The 1.6S makes for a sharper more eager package may not want to give that up if you come across one.

Cedia - Spacious, large boot, reliable, planted, involving brilliantly precise steering, tackles any road, tractable motor, straightforward ergos, you just cannot go wrong with this car

Fabia 1.6 - Steering feels a bit loose although once you learn the rhythm of things it won't be coming in the way of extracting all you want out of the machine, motor isn't really special but offers up some good grunt, spacious, well built, planted and something about the Fabia perhaps it is the way the car is setup or the weight distribution but the chassis is simply sublime and very easy to predict. FWD drift machine this. Inspires dollops of confidence and you will find yourself pushing it to its limits and dancing on them far easier than you might in most other hatchbacks. The Fabia always held an edge over the Polo to me so I must recommend it.

Cheers!

Last edited by IshaanIan : 6th November 2015 at 01:32.
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Old 7th November 2015, 00:20   #74
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

The Hyundai Accent has Hydraulic power steering, and it's a sheer joy driving it inside city. Though it becomes a little unnevering post 80 it's very much and Hyundais by default have a great steering feel.

Cheers!
VJ
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Old 7th November 2015, 01:01   #75
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Default Re: Cars that still have a hydraulic steering

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post

Fiesta 1.6 - Small yet well proportioned little go-kart of a sedan with a beautiful rev happy motor, a suspension setup that reacts just how you need it to, a satisfyingly weighted precise steering that lets you know exactly what the tyres are upto, lovely gearbox with short throws and well thought out pedal travel combined with straightforward ergonomics, makes this an all time favorite. The 1.6S makes for a sharper more eager package may not want to give that up if you come across one.
I guess its offtopic, but still, just to clarify. I have both the Palio and the Fiesta. I dont think the Fiesta matches the Palio in the raw feel and Fun to Drive. Yes, its ok by sedan standards, but no comparo with palio. Drive hard and the palio wins hands down. That said @gibikote, I somehow have felt the fords to have better steering, if thats only what you are looking for.

Otherwise, for a second car, you have plenty of options.
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