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Old 21st August 2006, 18:05   #16
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Default Electric Vehicles yes yes yes

I think having electric / hybrid vehicles is the need of the hour. Since effort on R&D by companies in India and also willingness on the part of the goverment is important. How much longer can we all survive on the fossil fuel is still a question mark.

Electric vehicles like REVA are the lead starters. I think we need to start thinking in these lines.

I am posting a new thread on Electric Vehicles, post your comments on my thoughts there.

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Old 21st August 2006, 18:29   #17
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Till now all fully electric vehicles have these serious drawbacks
  1. Low range of travel distance on a full charge
  2. Long time for recharging
  3. Space issue - an ICE car of same size will have more spaces
  4. Combination of 1,2,3 above makes it impractical of most common uses
So, hybrid is still a better choice. I think so far only Toyota Prius is actually selling in good numbers. Hope Honda will catchup soon.
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Old 21st August 2006, 18:57   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbasak
Till now all fully electric vehicles have these serious drawbacks


  1. Low range of travel distance on a full charge
  2. Long time for recharging
  3. Space issue - an ICE car of same size will have more spaces
  4. Combination of 1,2,3 above makes it impractical of most common uses
So, hybrid is still a better choice. I think so far only Toyota Prius is actually selling in good numbers. Hope Honda will catchup soon.
Though I agree with you on the drawbacks, these have not stopped the Reva from becoming a fairly successful city car in London. Some of the incentives extended to it are as below:
  • up to 600 'mpg' equiv.
  • Exempt from road tax
  • Exempt from (C) charge
  • Free parking in London
  • Free charging in London
  • Lowest insurance group
  • 100% tax write down for business
  • Lowest rate company car tax at just 9%
Only sad part is that it is not sold as Reva, http://www.goingreen.co.uk wonder why the Mainis agreed to give up their brand name. Looking at this post I have been so motivated that I have booked my self for a test drive for the coming Saturday.

Last edited by sumwal : 21st August 2006 at 19:08.
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Old 21st August 2006, 19:21   #19
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@sumwal

What you wrote is correct for London but unfortunately not valid in India!

Reva can very well be a 2nd car here for city use - but can never be a sole car for the family.

Our Govt. should lower the price of Electric cars.

Last edited by sbasak : 21st August 2006 at 19:23.
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Old 21st August 2006, 19:48   #20
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Guys,
There are lot of alternatives available, but I think none of them are
as economical and feasible as the oil/gas/petrol.

Hybrids are available at the moment in USA and UK but, they are very
expensive inspite of being subsidized by the govt. Even with subsidy,
it doesn't turn out to be economical on a 5 year ownership basis.

I think, Hybrids are the future atleast for the next 10-15 yrs...but,
someone should come up with a cheaper way to manufacture hybrids..
I hope the indian industry will atleast give it a try..we have very good
briains...the indian automobile industry must use it.
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Old 22nd August 2006, 09:58   #21
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what abt an Ferrari like performer?!
read it in today's TOI, Delhi Edition.

An electric car, capable of a Ferrari-like zero to 96 kph in 4 seconds, will hit US streets next year.



The Tesla Roadster utilises lithium-ion to give a range of 402 km on a single charge and a top speed of 210 kph Two-seat Roadster will sell for around $90,000 from next year. 1 battery pack Lithium ion cells deliver four times the power of other batteries. Same cells that run laptop computers, they will last over 1,60,934.40 km 2 Motor: Delivers peak power from low rotations per minute (rpm) to over 13,000 rpm with 85-95% efficiency 3 Transmission: Two forward gears — no clutch required 4 Power Electronics Module: Translates driver’s commands to motor. PEM data shown on display 5 Recharging: Car connects to 240volt circuit and charges batteries from dead in 3.5 hours

Last edited by revharder : 22nd August 2006 at 10:01.
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Old 22nd August 2006, 10:15   #22
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Like Shiva mentioned it is impossible to do away with pollution. We might only find a way to shift the location where it is happening! What we can do is try to come up with a way to find a sustainable fuel resource!
I've a question... how many cars (in India) today use wind energy to be regenerative? Is there away we can recharge a batt by using the wind that a vehicle would encounter when moving? Any ideas?
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Old 22nd August 2006, 10:37   #23
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Go to the link mentioned in my previous post, tesla details are mentioned over there with photos. Also look at the Fiat petra/sienna tetra fuel link
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Old 22nd August 2006, 11:38   #24
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How about using Solar Panels for charging Electric Cars ?? Since the life of a Solar Panel extends to over 20 yrs, that could provide a reliable power source for any electric car esp in India !

And the silicon used to manufacture solar cells is the second most abudant substance on the planet after hydrogen. Although presently cost of conversion into silicon is an energy intensive process but at some point we shall have a break-even point wherein the existing Nuclear/Solar infra will power creation of new silicon. And thus we might end up with an unlimited energy source for automobiles.
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Old 22nd August 2006, 17:07   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99w210
Guys,
There are lot of alternatives available, but I think none of them are
as economical and feasible as the oil/gas/petrol.
So why is oil/gas/petrol still economical ?? Ever wonder?

See how technology radically changed landscapes in all sectors. (Intel P1 anyone for Rs 65000/-?? )

Why is the auto sector left strangely untouched by the winds of technology?

Think folk think.
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Old 22nd August 2006, 19:49   #26
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@lurker: Solar panels are not exactly efficient now, as semi-conductors that are being used now have limited efficacy ranging from 2-15%. Even Nasa's solar panels, used for satellites, cannot produce more than 25% efficiency.

A production electric car's DC/AC motor/s will be highly powerful and will hence consume a lot of power. Of course, solar panels can be used ALONG with other power options....

Honda's solar car used for the world records etc. was a one off, with a single-seater design and extreme aerodynamics, alongwith a lot of other innovations, which are not practical for regular production cars..
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Old 22nd August 2006, 21:15   #27
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It doesn't matter how marginally efficient they are...esp now that they cost below $2 per cell.Their price has been coming down in the past 5 yrs. You can always install enough solar panels on the roof top to charge a battery. If you don't have a roof-top access then ofcourse there are 'building integrated' solar solutions.

I am not talking about integrating silicon cells with cars, but recharing them offline via energy collected by Solar Panels. In India there will be no dearth of solar energy beaming down to power the cells. Once invested these cells will last for more than 20 yrs.
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Old 23rd August 2006, 19:53   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker
I am not talking about integrating silicon cells with cars, but recharing them offline via energy collected by Solar Panels. In India there will be no dearth of solar energy beaming down to power the cells. Once invested these cells will last for more than 20 yrs.
imagine a car body made of solar panels !
wheel rims giving back heat energy to the car.
air friction helping...
nobody has posted their own experience of electric cars ?
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Old 23rd August 2006, 20:57   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssl2uv108
nobody has posted their own experience of electric cars ?
Watch this space for my experiences of driving the G-WHIZ a.k.a. Reva this saturday.
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Old 23rd August 2006, 23:10   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
Just one point to make here...

We buy electric cars to be eco-friendly. Because fuel burning cars are polluting and killing the environment with their exhaust fumes.

With an electric car, all we have to do is plug it into a socket and recharge it with clean electricity - no polluting exhaust fumes/emissions etc.

But how exactly is electricity produced? It's through the burning of millions of tons of coal (fossil fuel) every year. The more electricity is used, the more coal is burned, leading to more pollution.

Basically, with electric cars, all we're doing is shifting the source of the pollution and thinking that we're doing the environment a huge favour.

Until the production of electricity itself becomes an entirely clean process, there is no point in owning/driving an electric car.
This is only partly true. Note that:
(1) Electricity could be produced by other means than burning coal, as others have pointed out -- including clean hydraulic power plants.
(2) Even if produced by coal, the source of the pollution, namely the power plants, could be located far away from populated areas, thereby keeping the environment clean where it matters. Of course the pollutants are being released into the atmosphere. But see (3).
(3) Power plants produce power on a large scale -- so a lot of money can be spent on sophisticated equipment that minimizes pollution and produces power efficiently. Now what Boom Shiva says would be true if each car had a small power plant that produced electricity from burning fossil fuels -- that would be much more inefficient, costly and polluting as compared to using the fossil fuels directly to power the car; plus the pollutants would again be released directly into populated areas.

But there are also obvious disadvantages to using battery powered cars:

(a) High cost of battery technology needed to produce quality cars.
(b) Disposal of used batteries -- this could be a *huge* pollution problem if people convert to electric cars on a large scale.
(c) In a country like India -- shortage of power. If all our vehicles were to use electric power, there would be a significant increase in the demand for power. But most of our cities are already reeling under massive power cuts. I can foresee all kinds of problems, including interference from our politicians to deny power to car users and give it to farmers and so on. Our govt. has to invest massively in efficient power plants in order for this idea to work on a large scale.

Last edited by rks : 23rd August 2006 at 23:15.
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