Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd August 2006, 21:44   #1
BHPian
 
nikkibike's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: QoAS
Posts: 523
Thanked: 2 Times
Default Indica Turbo - Idle for one minute before shutting off?

Mod Note : Please continue the discussion in our Turbos & Idling Article (Why you must practice the "Idling Rule" with Turbo-Charged Cars). Thanks

Guys please enlighten me on the following.

I plan to buy an Indica Turbo DLX replacing my Indica DLE. My concern is regarding the instruction given on the dash board for idling the engine for a minute before start off and stopping. Guys, is this something very very important?! Current Indigo owners and Indica Turbo owners please pass on thier experiances on this.... I doubt the practicality of doing this every time during the daily use of car!!!! I've heard of engine failures in TC'd Sierras due to non compliance of this practice!!! What will happen if you dont do so after run-in period?! What are the effects on engine if I don't do it at all??! How is it going to affect the engine/vehicle?!


Kindly pass on the complete infos reg this matter.

Thanks in advance.

Nikhil.

Last edited by GTO : 28th January 2013 at 22:55. Reason: Adding link to turbo article
nikkibike is offline  
Old 23rd August 2006, 01:51   #2
SLK
Senior - BHPian
 
SLK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: DL XX XX XXXX
Posts: 1,290
Thanked: 185 Times
Default

Ok.. i might be wrong... (disclaimer)

its normally for the engine to warm up .. before you start revving up and make the turbo do some work.

Its good to do as the instruction says... if the car engine is cold.. otherwise its ok.

BTW.. i always warm up my WagonR engine before driving off... sometime 30sec.. sometimes upto 2-3mins.... depends how cold is it.

the issue is more serious in case of turbo... as the compressed air itself is very hot (and a lot) and its not good to push that into a cold engine.
SLK is offline  
Old 23rd August 2006, 08:44   #3
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 10,752
Thanked: 4,345 Times
Default

Nikkibike, pls do the idling as much as you can. This is required to keep the turbo unit working properly. We cant do the idling part when in traffic, but even there I try to give it a 15 sec idling before and after.

At other times, idling would mean foot off the acclerator. You could use that time to close the windows, switch off the audio player, pick up your stuff .. this way helps me atleast to get thru the 1 min idling period.

SLK, dont think the 2-3 min idling is required for the WagonR, even when cold. That's not a diesel. You could continue the 30 sec idling, but just take it easy for a couple of km after you start.

The idling for the turbo'd diesels is not about compressed air being hot, but to prevent damage to the TC unit due to oil starvation in the TC.
condor is online now  
Old 23rd August 2006, 08:58   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
pramodkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gods own country
Posts: 1,993
Thanked: 857 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default

I totally agree with condor. the oil pump needs to pump oil to all the parts and hence idlling the engine will help doing this and reduce the assault on the engine. Any thing cold is brittle hence without and lubrication friction can cause alot of dammage hence idlling is the best option. But i do not idle my esteem petrol for more than 30-40 secs. But i have a question I have bypassed the thermostat in my car so the fan starts as soon as i crank the engine. i was under the impression that this will keep the engine cool but after going through some threads now i am scared that will the flow of colant damage the engine?


And guys i am not trying to hijack this thread. this was just a question
pramodkumar is offline  
Old 23rd August 2006, 09:53   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Madurai
Posts: 1,006
Thanked: 645 Times
Default

Let me put this as simply as possible.
A Turbo units turbine spins at a very high rpm (hundreds of thousands rpm), and a lot of turbos spin on lubricated bushes. Now if you start the engine and rev immediately, the turbo goes int its high speed spins, before the lubricating oil reaches the bushes, which could lead to premature failure of the turbo.
If you have stopped the car after a drive, the turbo could still be spinning at a very high rpm. Switching of your engine at this point would mean that the supply of oil to the turbo gets cut off, while the turbo is still spinning, which again, could lead to premature failure of the turbo unit.
This is the reason why one is advised to idle on starting and before switching off the engine.
Hope this explanation helps
jyobeb is offline  
Old 23rd August 2006, 12:13   #6
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,955
Thanked: 15,648 Times
Default

As long as you can stay below 1500rpm till 1 min its okay. You can slowly move out of your driveway at near idle rpms and drive slowly. Take care not to exceed 1500rpm. 1500rpm is enough for 1st and 2nd gear without stalling or excessive vibrations,
tsk1979 is offline  
Old 23rd August 2006, 12:58   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,007
Thanked: 229 Times
Default

@pramodkumar: Never remove the thermostat. It is essential for correct engine cooling/operation. Engine is designed to be most efficient at certain temperature. Now the thermostat regulates this temperature. During cold start, it remains shut and allows engine to heat up to operating temperature very quickly. This increases lubrication also. (warm oil flows more freely). Also during normal running, if weather is cold or too much flow of coolant, thermostat will shut, allowing engine to remain at optimum temperature. By bypassing thermostat, you are drastically reducing your engine life.

jyobeb is quite right about the turbo in Tata vehicles. I am not too sure how petro turbo or other mfrs turbo cars like Skoda RS, Merc or Fiesta require same or not.
sandeep108 is offline  
Old 23rd August 2006, 14:19   #8
Newbie
 
Mack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 17
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Well, while using any turbo, our company (Cummins Turbo Technologies, formerly Holset) advises users to let the engine warm up during cold start for a couple of minutes so that proper oil circulation and oil pressure is built up in the engine and the turbo lines. Also, while shutting down the engine, it is strongly advised to idle (2/3 minutes for Commercial and heavy duty applications) the engine (for a minute or so, in cars). This is to avoid what we call 'Hot Shutdown'. If you abruptly kill the engine after long runs, it doesn't allow the turbo speed to come down to normal and to cool it down, hence causing damage to it.

Mind you, the components of a turbo are subjected to great amounts of temperatures - 200 deg. C and turbines / impellers rotate at speeds like 1,15,000 to 2,00,000 rpms. That's exactly why those instructions are given on the panel.
Mack is offline  
Old 23rd August 2006, 18:31   #9
BHPian
 
nikkibike's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: QoAS
Posts: 523
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

jyobeb's info has clear answer bout idling the TC'd engine while starting off.... while Mack's info answered bout idling the TC'd engine before stopping!!
great and valuable infos guys!!! You guys have cleared my apprehensions reg the subject matter!!!

Thanks a ton guys! and please continue with more informations on this subject!!
nikkibike is offline  
Old 24th August 2006, 09:43   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 18
Thanked: 0 Times
Question What about traffic jams?

Guys in this case, how will a turbo engine behave in traffic jams? We generally tend to shut off/on the engine in long traffic jams. In this case, turbo diesel car's engines will have quicker wear and tear than nomal diesel engine cars.
khanakbar is offline  
Old 24th August 2006, 10:21   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,007
Thanked: 229 Times
Default

Diesel engines are generally not meant to be switched off in traffic/lights. Diesel engine consumes very little fuel when idle. Same with CNG. I have noticed therefore that nowadays very few taxis switch off their CNG engines in traffic, unlike earlier.

During starting off, same principle applies - no sense in increasing rpm until turbo is well lubricated, which happens after 2-3 min of idle. In any event, there is simply tremendous wear and tear of any engine, petrol/diesel/TC, if one cold starts and tends to zoom off. Even after 30s - 2 min of idle, one should drive gently for at least 10 minutes.

I have seen many friends maruti and other makes start giving engine problems at 50-70k km, when otherwise nothing should happen till 100k km, simply because they or their drivers do not observe proper warm up procedure.

Last edited by sandeep108 : 24th August 2006 at 10:24.
sandeep108 is offline  
Old 24th August 2006, 20:51   #12
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 70
Thanked: Once
Default Idling before and after

We have a Maruti Alto LXi at home in Goa and I was also told the same thing w.r.t. idling. I understand that idling is required before taking off with the vehicle. However when I come to a halt in the car, the engine makes a whinning noise.

I asked one of my friends, he was telling me that its a kind of reverse engine that is run to avoid some kind of damage of the engine and vehicle. What is this supposed to be? The whinning noise stops after around 30 - 40 seconds. My friend also warned me not to stop the vehicle when the sound comes.

What is that sound supposed to be?
vincentt is offline  
Old 24th August 2006, 21:44   #13
BHPian
 
nikkibike's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: QoAS
Posts: 523
Thanked: 2 Times
Default hi vincentt

vincentt... get your clutch adjustment checked and the status of alternator / a/c belt checked...!! Bith these may tend to slip due to slow downing of engine from a higher rpm to lower rpm & viceversa.
Juz a guess!!!! try it and see..!

Nikhil.



Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentt
We have a Maruti Alto LXi at home in Goa and I was also told the same thing w.r.t. idling. I understand that idling is required before taking off with the vehicle. However when I come to a halt in the car, the engine makes a whinning noise.

I asked one of my friends, he was telling me that its a kind of reverse engine that is run to avoid some kind of damage of the engine and vehicle. What is this supposed to be? The whinning noise stops after around 30 - 40 seconds. My friend also warned me not to stop the vehicle when the sound comes.

What is that sound supposed to be?
nikkibike is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Skoda Octavia engine shutting off, right after start gigy Technical Stuff 11 20th November 2014 08:33
Turbo's and one minute idling amit Technical Stuff 99 20th June 2012 22:19
Steps to take before cranking (car lying idle for a year) ssjr0498 Technical Stuff 8 28th July 2008 15:04
Do you switch your system off before shutting the engine down? kb100 In-Car Entertainment 29 17th June 2006 14:55


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 14:25.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks