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Old 9th October 2016, 11:48   #211
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Default Re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by novice View Post
Classic symptoms of excessive play are gerky gear changes, leaping forward when coming to stop and clutch slip when going uphill especially in D2.

DSG adaptation would solve all of them.
Really? Just to be sure we're talking about the right kind of jerking, the jerking I'm experiencing is very violent. Similar to what would happen if you're driving along at 30kph and full on jam the brakes for a second and then let off. People in the car get thrown forward. It is very concerning.
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Old 9th October 2016, 12:46   #212
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Default Re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

No...the kind of jerks you are describing is extreme. But a DSG with improper adaptation wouod behave really bad. You mentioned that you chenged plates. Was it done at the dealership ? If not, I would strongly recommend DSG adaptation. It doesn't cost anything and it is safe.

Last edited by novice : 9th October 2016 at 12:47.
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Old 9th October 2016, 13:17   #213
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Default Re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

In fact if I recall my experience with the DSG, what you describe indeed point to improper adaptation. I did face such violent shifts after my clutch clocked 30k kms.
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Old 9th October 2016, 17:13   #214
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Default Re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by ahmadnaik View Post
Against all odds, I trusted that Volkswagen must have sorted out the gearbox issues that plagued the DQ200 DSG Dry Dual Clutch boxes, but alas - it was not so

I think my post must begin with the summary of my experience with Volkswagen -

Brilliant cars, unmatched stability - terrible service, and absolutely non-reciprocative customer service!
I had to throw my Vento tsi out of my ownership due to the same reason above. Sigh, they are screwing a good product with pathetic service
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Old 3rd February 2017, 21:31   #215
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Default My Vento TSI gearbox problem

Dear friends,

I am just forwarding an email that I had written to Volkswagen last year.

The issue still persists. I thought it's just easier to quote the email here rather than explain the problem. I'm hoping someone from here would come to my aid. Car was bought in Mumbai in Aug 2015.

Could someone please guide me further and help me resolve the problem. Two main issues in brief. Jerking while downshifting and sticking to lower gears and revving high in lower gears especially 1st and 2nd.

Thank you.


Quote:
"This email comes to you from a very dissatisfied customer of a brand new VW Vento 1.2 TSI.

The car was purchased sometime in August of last year. One of the reasons I had chosen to buy this particular car was because of the DSG box. A few months later the car started giving a sudden jerk in 3rd and 4th gears. The was no downshift. Just a very forceful jerk. This problem was highlighted during the free inspection done on 19th Jan 2016. I asked the person who I was dealing with Mr. Nishant Phalsmkar as to why this was happening. He told me there was a software update and the problem would be rectified.

After taking delivery of the car, this problem was rectified. However a new problem cropped up. The car would stay in lower gears a lot, sometimes would be very reluctant to upshift to a higher gear. In first gear the car would rev upto 3000 rpm and then shift into 2nd gear. Also, the car started downshifting very early especially 3rd to 2nd and 2nd to 1st gear with a significant downshifting jerk making me feel like I'm driving a manual car. The car was given back for a check up on 23rd Feb 2016. I was told another software update needed to be done on the car. Still the problem persisted.

Finally I had to go back to the service station where I made Mr. Subin Pennikal sit in the car with me and we drove the car around just to show him exactly what was happening. Mr Subin told me from their side there was no problem with the car and the DSG, and everything was normal inspite of the issues that we both saw and felt during the test drive we took. I asked him to send me an email stating that the car was fine. The email is attached below.

In all honesty, I am an end user. Giving me technical information about how a DSG works holds no weightage to me. The email clearly states from Mr Subin that the car is experiencing jerking like a manual gearbox. And all this only after the so called software updates were performed on the car. When I test drove the car before buying there was no such issue. Only when these updates were done to the DSG or the electronics of the car, I am facing there issues.

I am requesting a call back as soon as possible and this problem with the upshift and downshift must be rectified at the earliest. I will not accept reasoning saying that a DSG box will upshift or downshift like a manual car as stated by Mr. Subin in his email. This problem exists in my car and needs to be looked into."

Last edited by SDP : 3rd February 2017 at 21:40. Reason: Formatting the email part for better readability.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 21:55   #216
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Default Re: My Vento TSI gearbox problem

Hey derek. What sort of jerks are you experiencing during downshifts? I have a Polo GT TSI, and while you can barely feel the car shifting during upshifts, I do feel slight "jerks" while braking (downshifting), but they are definitely not violent. It is slightly more profound while downshifting from D3 to D2 and D2 to D1. However, these are slight jerks which I actually expect from an automatic car while downshifting. Are your jerks very violent?

The reason I have asked is because since your car must be from the newer crop of vehicles (post the DSG oil change exercise by VW to compensate for humid conditions and start/stop traffic in India), and chances of a DSG failure are slim (I hope ).

Have you tried comparing this behaviour with another DSG (Vento TSI/Polo GT TSI)?

Last edited by FanaticOnWheels : 3rd February 2017 at 21:59.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 22:21   #217
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Default Re: My Vento TSI gearbox problem

Thanks friend,

The forceful jerking issue was solved by a software update. Right now the two main issues are the up shift, like I said, the car remains in first or second gear for upto 3000 rpm and then shifts into a higher gear.

The downshifting is also very pronounced although not forceful. But yes I can feel the downshifting, it feels like a learner driving a manual and downshifting through the gears. Definitely unlike a DSG box. Car was bought in August 2015. The downshifting issue is again, only in the lower gears, especially from 3rd to 2nd and 2nd to 1st gear.

Note from support. Post edited for readability.
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Old 4th February 2017, 07:46   #218
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Default Re: My Vento TSI gearbox problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by derek View Post
The downshifting is also very pronounced although not forceful. But yes I can feel the downshifting, it feels like a learner driving a manual and downshifting through the gears. Definitely unlike a DSG box. Car was bought in August 2015. The downshifting issue is again, only in the lower gears, especially from 3rd to 2nd and 2nd to 1st gear.
It is a pain when you report the problem and the dealer says "it is normal".

I suggest you do some homework to describe the problem in very specific terms. In your case, you need to prove that a regular Polo TSI is upshifting at 1500rpm vs your car is doing the same upshift at 3000rpm. Go on an empty road with a friend and drive the car from 0 to 80kmph and record the video of the RPM and Speed, same can be compared with a regular TSI. Try driving in manual and sports modes and see if shifts are happening normally, etc. Or borrow a diagnostic cable (VAGCOM) or ask the dealer to drive the car with diagnostics equipment to see if any errors are logged. Bottomline is you need to be very specific with numbers, etc. instead of saying it doesn't feel right.
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Old 4th February 2017, 10:08   #219
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Default Re: My Vento TSI gearbox problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by derek View Post
Dear friends,

Could someone please guide me further and help me resolve the problem. Two main issues in brief. Jerking while downshifting and sticking to lower gears and revving high in lower gears especially 1st and 2nd.

Thank you.
This isn't the first time that this issue has been mentioned, and that too right here in the Technical Stuff section. While I may not be able to assist you in rectifying the problem, I can help in understanding the problem because I've seen similar reports/articles mentioning same problems even in a Ford DCT and of course, the VW DSG. In short, such gearboxes basically are :

- Two clutches - one to select odd gears and one to select even gears

- Robotronics/mechatronics which are a series of cogs and wheels which mechanically change the gears as necessary.

- Software learning unit which "learns" the drivers driving patterns and speed requirements so that the unit becomes more efficient at shifting at all the sweet spots.

Now when the service station talks of software update, its mostly changing the very algorithm of the learning unit to prevent a problem from occurring, perhaps the jerks come from changing gears at a higher rev-point, the software tweak will reconfigure it to change it early, however that too has a disadvantage because if the gear is selected way too early in the rev-zone there will be lack of power. Similarly, if the gear shifts too early and the car jerks due to want of power, they may tweak the software to stick to the revs higher up and then change.. that will present another problem where there will be torque loss and motion won't be smooth.

The mechatronics, software and dual clutch+gearbox(with mineral oil in it) constitute the entire setup that transfers engine power to the wheels and all of it should be at 100% to work well. Jerking may be a mechatronics issue, but we may never understand if the mechatronics itself is defective or if it's the software that is instructing the mechatronics to shift that is defective. Updating the firmware is a hit or miss, and in your case it seems to have missed. Also contrary to what's mentioned in the e-mail, a manual box will never jerk because its all in the hands of the driver, ultimately, all automatic boxes have one problem or another, CVT with the giant rubber-band effect, slushboxes (aka torque converters) which are dumb units that can never adapt to all conditions perfectly unless it has over a half-dozen gears (8 would be the sweet spot) and the DSG which looked like it could solve all the problems plaguing the other 2, but failed in its own way.

The only way to solve it is to work closely with the service station and hope that they truly understand the problem when driving it and help you by repairing/replacing whatever necessary.
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Old 4th February 2017, 10:13   #220
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Default Re: My Vento TSI gearbox problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by derek View Post
Thanks friend,

The forceful jerking issue was solved by a software update. Right now the two main issues are the up shift, like I said, the car remains in first or second gear for upto 3000 rpm and then shifts into a higher gear.

The downshifting is also very pronounced although not forceful. But yes I can feel the downshifting, it feels like a learner driving a manual and downshifting through the gears. Definitely unlike a DSG box. Car was bought in August 2015. The downshifting issue is again, only in the lower gears, especially from 3rd to 2nd and 2nd to 1st gear.

Note from support. Post edited for readability.
This might sound dumb, but have you tried removing the negative terminal of the battery for sometime to reset the ECU? Just a hunch !
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Old 4th February 2017, 10:21   #221
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Default Re: My Vento TSI gearbox problem

The fail safe solution is to sell the car and buy a non DSG if you can't live with the problem.

Any remedy would, at best, be a stop gap arrangement till the DSG throws another tantrum.
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Old 4th February 2017, 11:52   #222
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Default Re: My Vento TSI gearbox problem

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
The fail safe solution is to sell the car and buy a non DSG if you can't live with the problem.

Any remedy would, at best, be a stop gap arrangement till the DSG throws another tantrum.
It's not a viable solution for most people.

As a forum, we should help him by referring to another service center or giving him a contact of some higher-up who can solve his problem. Or we should guide him to go the legal way.

We can warm potential car buyers about the negatives of certain brands and advice them to buy a car from a different brand.
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Old 4th February 2017, 14:49   #223
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Default

Thanks guys for the help and support.

This problem only started about 3 or 4 months after the car was bought. I know how a DSG gearbox feels and this is definitely not the feel of a dsg shifting. I must say, this happens occasionally, not all the time, as if to say the car has a mind of her own.

What I'm really upset about is no one at the service station in andheri East parsi panchayat road was willing to go the further mile and admit this was an issue. They kept saying this is normal, software updated, software changed, and they give the car back to me, with the same problem. The technical head Mr Subin sat with me in the car, inspite of him seeing the same, they were unwilling to admit there is a problem.

Like I have said, I have driver other VW cars with a dsg before.

I would need to either go to another service station, or, speak to someone in the higher up management to solve this issue.

Thank u guys!
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Old 4th February 2017, 15:40   #224
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Default Re: My Vento TSI gearbox problem

Try resetting your DSG box. The process is as per attached link

http://www.mycarforum.com/topic/2690...ithout-vagcom/

Have to make the disclaimer that I never had to use this for my Superb - but this was shared with me by a friend who claimed to have used it.
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Old 26th February 2017, 02:03   #225
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Default Re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

I am planning for Vento TDI DSG. After reading this thread, have few questions in mind:
  1. Does these problems still exist in the 2017 models? Drove the test drive car, it had no jerking issues. However, I did not pay much attention to the upshifting and downshifting in 2nd & 3rd Gear.

  2. Can these problems be sorted out under warranty?
    If yes, does the service centre consider and replace the parts without any objection?

  3. If it is troubling owning the DSG, shall I go for the manual?
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