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Old 24th May 2015, 07:43   #76
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

After going through the thread , there seems to be a problem mostly with DSG+Petrol combo , again i am saying mostly.

Kindly pardon me for being a layman about DSG technology , but can it be that DSG+Diesel is more reliable than DSG+Petrol? Or vice versa or there is no relation regarding to fuel and DSG reliability?
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Old 24th May 2015, 08:23   #77
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by rosaf View Post
can it be that DSG+Diesel is more reliable than DSG+Petrol?
DSG or direct shift gearbox is just VW rebranding of a dual-clutch gearbox originally developed by BorgWarner. The dual-clutch is just a gearbox which responds to electronic signals from engine based on revolution, & uses mechanical movements to effect the changes of the gears. This mechanical movements require lubrication by either synthetic or mineral oil. Initially VW claimed that all problems regarding to DSG has been fixed by using mineral oil as due to often found hot/arid climate in India the synthetic oil could not maintain viscosity. It has very little or nothing to do with type of fuel the engine uses.

However, failures can plague electronics at anytime as well.. so one cannot discount mechatronic or sensor failures. VW has gotten into trouble in China with similar gearboxes, I put the blame squarely on a combination of bad engineering and very poor country-specific testing.

Last edited by dark.knight : 24th May 2015 at 08:36.
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Old 24th May 2015, 08:57   #78
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by ahmadnaik View Post
I got the car back today, after much deliberation. VW informed me that they have "its gears in a satisfactory
Can you post your job card and the invoice(bill) of the warranty replacement?
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Old 24th May 2015, 09:47   #79
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by rosaf View Post
After going through the thread , there seems to be a problem mostly with DSG+Petrol combo , again i am saying mostly.

Kindly pardon me for being a layman about DSG technology , but can it be that DSG+Diesel is more reliable than DSG+Petrol? Or vice versa or there is no relation regarding to fuel and DSG reliability?
Not really. The issues are with DSG + Petrol TSI because that was the launched first. The Diesel + DSG came in the Vento and Rapid only last year so we haven't heard of anything yet.

The Vento TSI and Polo TSI with DSG were launched in 2013.
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Old 24th May 2015, 18:28   #80
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by ahmadnaik View Post
The issue has not been resolved yet. Not in the least. It is exactly the same as before and I called VW and told them immediately.
Sorry to note that the issue has still not been resolved. I would request you to be calm and co-operative with your dealer since he is the only hope you have. After experiencing VW service for 3 years, they just do not give a damn to customer complaints and just forward mails to their dealers. I had shot them such strong worded mails for injector issues with my Vento but did not even get a call from CRM of the workshop, nor did my car get any special treatment, infact they made me wait 5 hours till the warranty claim got approved . Was so frustrated in the end that i just asked them to deliver my car before their workshop closes.
Send a complaint mail to any other brand and the workshop CRM waits for you, gets your work done on priority and makes sure that you are satisfied, VW's policies are beyond my understanding. Who takes 5 hours to approve a claim for some thing which they know is faulty and will fail (released advisories).
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Old 24th May 2015, 19:31   #81
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Sorry to note that the issue has still not been resolved. I would request you to be calm and co-operative with your dealer since he is the only hope you have.
Well honestly, I don't really have any other choice other than to wait patiently. I'm just hoping it gets resolved in an amicable way, since I've already wasted way too much time over this issue.
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Old 25th May 2015, 00:01   #82
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
It has very little or nothing to do with type of fuel the engine uses.
It doesn't have anything to do with the type of fuel, but the type of engine does matter. Different DSGs can tolerate torque till certain level. Ideally petrol engines produces lesser torque compared to diesels so they should be much safer but its strange we are hearing more complains coming from petrol cars in this thread.

Apart from torque, its the heat which puts extra stress on DSG. Keeping DSG in neural mode is recommended whenever the car is stopped.

The issues stated in this thread look different to me than the historically infamous DSG issues.
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Old 25th May 2015, 11:53   #83
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

Please do post the related job card and invoice whenever your issue gets resolved.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 25th May 2015 at 12:28. Reason: Post rephrased. Please be a bit kind towards other members on a public forum!
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Old 25th May 2015, 12:14   #84
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
Apart from torque, its the heat which puts extra stress on DSG. Keeping DSG in neural mode is recommended whenever the car is stopped.
In that case what gear is the car in when put in 'P'(parking) mode,say at a traffic light?
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Old 25th May 2015, 12:42   #85
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by rosaf View Post
In that case what gear is the car in when put in 'P'(parking) mode,say at a traffic light?
Park mode is same as Neutral (clutch disengaged), but with a pin that locks the transmission shaft so that the car cannot move. However the car can move a little (a feet or two) before the pin stops further movement.

Putting the car in P mode is not necessary in traffic lights just because of the inconvenience. In the DSG, you can shift between "N" and "D" modes just by keeping the brake pressed. But to move from "D" to "P" and back, you have to also press the safety button on the gear knob.
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Old 25th May 2015, 19:32   #86
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by H_Dogg72 View Post
Please do post the related job card and invoice whenever your issue gets resolved.
The job card is still open since my issue has not been resolved yet, so I can't get an invoice yet. I spoke to the VW technical advisor and was told that VW is working on a software upgrade to resolve the issue once and for all and the update will tentatively roll out in the first week of June. I'm understandably skeptical of the reliability of a time frame after numerous failed experiences - but then again, I have no other choice other than patience.

What I will say is that the jerking issue seems to have reduced a little after the Mechatronics were replaced. I also enquires about the possibility of an issue with the clutch pack as well, and was informed that they had already replaced it with a new one when they swapped the Mechatronics unit. So if nothing else, then there a glimmer of hope in the fact that a small percentage of the issue has been resolved and VW is still working on solving it.
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Old 26th May 2015, 22:42   #87
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by graaja View Post
Putting the car in P mode is not necessary in traffic lights just because of the inconvenience. In the DSG, you can shift between "N" and "D" modes just by keeping the brake pressed. But to move from "D" to "P" and back, you have to also press the safety button on the gear knob.
This is a very important thing to keep in mind with DSG. i.e. put it in N when you stop. I'd say treat it like a manual in terms of shifting to N when stopped.

DSG in my Polo at least, allows changing to N, without pressing brake or shift lock, which is very convenient. Although for shifting back to D, you need to press the brake (shift lock not needed), provided the car is not moving. Because if it is moving, it allows shifting between N and D, without anything (brake or lock).

The real problem with the Dry clutch DSG is the heat because of dry clutch. The old Vento had DSG too, the DQ250, which is wet clutch and had no issues.

The DQ200 on the other hand is a much more fun gearbox, but has its issues. for example:
  • Completely based on its mood (probably the timing and intensity of shifting to D and pressing the brake respectively have a role to play), it does often keep the clutch at biting point, i.e. transmitting some power to wheels, to move as soon as brake is released. (some people would have observed this)
    There are other situations where it disengages the clutch on braking and you'd notice the car takes some time to move after the brake is released.
  • Another situation is when the DSG is left on its own, i.e. without accelerator input. I see it quickly moves to 2nd gear, while the car only moves at a speed slower than the 1st at 1000rpm with clutch fully engaged. So basically it keeps slipping the clutch, generating a lot of heat.
    A good idea is to slightly press on the accelerator to get it to fully engage the clutch(s).

Well, I know it the 21st century and the consumer is god. But DSG, specially in dry clutch avatar is something that requires special care, while it also provides an unparalleled driving experience (with fuel efficiency).

Last edited by SLK : 26th May 2015 at 22:44.
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Old 28th May 2015, 15:00   #88
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by SLK View Post
..
  • Another situation is when the DSG is left on its own, i.e. without accelerator input. I see it quickly moves to 2nd gear, while the car only moves at a speed slower than the 1st at 1000rpm with clutch fully engaged. So basically it keeps slipping the clutch, generating a lot of heat.
    A good idea is to slightly press on the accelerator to get it to fully engage the clutch(s) ..
This is typically when I experienced the infamous 2nd gear jerks twice or thrice so far. All of them had been on instances wherein you would normally accelerate, but can't, due to - maybe a hump or traffic signal upfront or pothole etc.
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Old 29th May 2015, 20:49   #89
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

Spoke to the technical advisor again today. And he told me that the software update should be out soon. According to him, this time VW actually reviewed all the complaints regarding the jerking issue in VW cars sold in India and are upgrading the ECU software specifically targeting this problem. In the meanwhile I have been using the car daily, and the jerking continues to be a nagging hindrance, with the frequency of the issue still steadily increasing.

Will keep this thread updated as soon as I have more information.

Last edited by ampere : 29th May 2015 at 20:51. Reason: Formatted post
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Old 4th June 2015, 12:25   #90
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Default re: VW Polo / Vento DSG: Gearbox Jerking Issue! EDIT: now resolved!

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Originally Posted by vishwasvr View Post

I realized that each time the MIL came up they would simply erased/hid it using the software and I had no inkling it was because of the EGR. I scanned it using an OBDII scanner and solved the issue. It was a hell lot of work removing the EGR valve and that probably was one of the reasons why they chose to hide the error than fixing it.
My two pence here.. Forgive me if it is slightly off-topic..

I work in the software division of Robert Bosch where my team works on Fuel Evaporative Leakage (FEL) for Gasoline engines. We (my team) are involved in the diagnostics part of the FEL module.

Recently we received a new requirement from Audi : To keep the MIL lamp continuously glowing if the reported problem is simply/forcibly erased/hid using the OBDII scanner in the workshop/garage so as to avoid fraudulent erasing of the reported problem by simply erasing it without actually solving the problem!

If this is the case with Gasoline engines, then I can only imagine if this fraudulent practise of forcibly erasing using the scanner and let a Diesel engine continue to run with the exhaust problem (EGR problem) unchecked! The most important part of a Diesel Engine Management system is the Exhaust treatment system!

Now, coming to India : The concept of FEL is yet to reach here.. As fuel emission diagnostics is a pretty costly affair and the emission norms are not as strict here to warrant/merit a FEL module in our cars. (This is for gasoline engines)

But EGR problems in Diesel engines should never be ignored like what the VW people did.. It reduces the engine life considerably and increases pollution considerably as well.

Best Regards.
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