Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th July 2015, 16:52   #1
BHPian
 
speedmunster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 132
Thanked: 91 Times
Post Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Hi all. In this thread I will be discussing about some of the problems that I have faced with the Fuel Pump of my 2005 Innova D4D. I hope this thread helps other Innova owners who are facing similar issues that I have faced.

I am not very good at penning my thoughts and this being my first thread, I would request the Mods to make changes wherever necessary.

I own a 2005 model Toyota Innova G3 D4D. We bought the Innova second-hand from my father's friend in Feb 2012. It had done 116000 kms when we bought it and right now is hovering around 157000 kms. All was good with the car with nothing major to report till a few months back.

I was driving the Innova to one of the districts and around afternoon we stopped for lunch. After lunch, the Innova simply refused to start. After a lot of coaxing and cajoling, the car started and without another halt, came straight back to Hyderabad.

The very next day I took her to Radhakrishna Toyota. They inspected the car and returned the car in the evening stating that everything was fine. I took the Innova back from the workshop and the starting problem did not recur for many months.

Then during the month of June 2015, I was driving the car within the city when the car suddenly stalled in the middle of the road. I tried starting the car but again she refused to start. After a lot of cranking and many tense minutes, the car fired up. This time I knew something was up and it was not to be taken lightly. Took the car back to Radhakrishna Toyota for a complete check up. They kept the Innova for 5 days and finally they called up saying that they were unable to detect the problem.
The first start in the day was without a fuss and the Innova started with just one crank. But, as you drove her around, the car started to jerk and sometimes refused to start. Now the problem was getting from bad to worse as the days passed.

My father and me then decided to take the Innova to our trusty mechanic. He too had the car for around three days during which he cleaned the diesel tank, checked the fuel lines for any leakages and also changed the fuel filter assembly to try to diagnose the problem. What he finally came up with was that there was air that was getting into the fuel lines which was causing the delayed start. He suggested taking the car to Harsha Toyota and check for any problems by hooking up the scanner.

Took her to Harsha Toyota the very next day. They kept her for around 3 days and finally the service advisor called saying that there was a problem with the Fuel Pressure Pump and that it needed to be changed. Upon asking about the cost of the pump, very casually he said that it would cost Rs. 65000 under exchange to replace the pump. Now that is a lot of money to be spent on a 10 year old car, Actually more than 15% of the present market value of the car. Called Radhakrishna Toyota for a quote and what a shock I got. Rs. 80000. We finally contemplated selling the Innova and started looking for alternatives.

On Team-Bhp, I stumbled upon a few threads which mentioned about problems with the Innovaís Fuel pump. Then on further searching, I reached a Thai website where there were hundreds of Innova owners complaining about similar problems that I was facing. By this time I had got to know that I was not the only one facing a problem with an Innova.

The difference between all other Innovas and mine was that while the other cars were showing error codes with the scanners plugged in, mine showed absolutely none. Even the fuel pressure was within tolerance levels.

As a last resort, we took the car to the local Denso Service centre (That is the make of the Innova Fuel Pumps) and what a revelation it was. The service centre Ė Star Electronic Diesel Engineers is located at LB Nagar and is run by a young gentleman named Mr. Afzal Khan. They are also the distributors for Holset Turbochargers and they carry out repair work on automotive and marine fuel pumps and turbochargers. I strongly recommend Star Diesel for all engine related, turbocharger related and fuel pump related work of all brands of cars be tested here and an opinion sought before blindly heeding advice of the authorised service centres. Mr. Afzal Khanís phone number is 90000 16661. (PS: I am in no way connected to the owners or the company in any way other than being a very satisfied customer)

Mr. Afzal Khan himself hooked up the OBD scanner to my Innova and tried to check for any fault codes. Again, no error codes showed up. He was nice enough to call up the engineers at the Denso India headquarters and discussed my carís problems in detail. They too suggested to change the fuel pump. Now coming to the price: Star Diesel quoted Rs. 30800 for the fuel pump and Rs. 2000 for labour charges. The price difference was astonishing to say the least. Got the fuel pump changed at Star Diesel and what a difference that has made. The car runs better than a new Innova, starts like it should, has immense torque through the gears and the acceleration is unbelievable. It now feels better than it felt when we bought the Innova.
speedmunster is offline   (19) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th July 2015, 17:13   #2
BHPian
 
hrman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 872
Thanked: 291 Times
Default re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Glad to note your case had a happy ending.
A few years ago, the fuel pump motor in my Honda City (Dolphin)model had conked off. The car was not starting. Called in my FNG and he ordered for a new fuel pump motor. This cost some 3-4k if I recall and was made by Denso.

In your case, is it the motor or the entire fuel pump assembly which had to be replaced
hrman is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th July 2015, 17:18   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
mayankk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 4,034
Thanked: 3,169 Times
Default re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Glad you got it going, and going by your words, it seems the problem may have started around the time you bought her, maybe that why it seems like a different animal, eh?
I'm a bit surprised at the cost of the fuel pump.
This is a vehicle very popular on the taxi service. So, one, the fuel pump should not be susceptible to failure, and two, even if it does, I doubt a business owner would be willing to shell out 30k+ for a fuel pump. Which with these guys has to work with every kind of adulteration on the circuit.
mayankk is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th July 2015, 17:31   #4
BHPian
 
speedmunster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 132
Thanked: 91 Times
Default re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrman View Post
Glad to note your case had a happy ending.
A few years ago, the fuel pump motor in my Honda City (Dolphin)model had conked off. The car was not starting. Called in my FNG and he ordered for a new fuel pump motor. This cost some 3-4k if I recall and was made by Denso.

In your case, is it the motor or the entire fuel pump assembly which had to be replaced
The System comes in two parts I am told. The Pump and the Rail. The Pump was what was replaced.
speedmunster is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th July 2015, 18:50   #5
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Madras
Posts: 88
Thanked: 36 Times
Default re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Quoting my previous posts. I too had a premature fuel pump failure at 67K kms and replaced it with a refurbished one in 2011. Car has been running fine till now and crossed 100 K kms.
Atleast the cost quoted for you is less than what I paid in 2011. Did not research on any private service guys for the Denso pump since all our cars were going to the respective ASS...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sparrow View Post
Hi CDM,

This happened to my Innova(G4) at 67K kms. The error code was

"Fuel Rail / System Pressure – Too High". Did not make a note of the error code number. Remember seeing it in the scanner.
Not sure if I got the other error code.

I was quoted around 93K for the fuel pump and the issue was assumed to be due to adulterated fuel.
Yes! Adulterated fuel leads to preamature failure of the pumps, whatsoever be the quality/make is.
The dealer did a good job and replaced the fuel pump with a refurbished one by DENSO. Replacement date was around (Aug 2011). Traded my old pump for 47K and paid 43 K including the labour. This was done by Lanson motors in Chennai.(got discounts since I knew the PRO).

The main issue is that the car would run fine with the Fuel pump problem however you will miss the timings. I replaced it and my car has now run 87K. No issues till now "Touchwood".
Got the same explanation from the dealer that it has been done in other Innova's and they provide a 10K / 6 Month warranty. Till now, the car is fine and no problem with the pump.

I would say, the Innova is trouble free car(as far as my ownership is concerned) and suggest you to replace the pump and get going.

If still not satisfied, try visiting another dealer for a second opinion.

Rgds,
Karthik

Last edited by Jack Sparrow : 13th July 2015 at 18:54.
Jack Sparrow is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2015, 11:32   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
AutoIndian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: PCMC, Pune-MH14
Posts: 3,069
Thanked: 3,726 Times
Default re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedmunster View Post
Hi all. In this thread I will be discussing about some of the problems that I have faced with the Fuel Pump of my 2005 Innova D4D. I hope this thread helps other Innova owners who are facing similar issues that I have faced.
Thank you for sharing your experience with this group speedmunster. This is really an eye opener for me.

Quote:
I am not very good at penning my thoughts and this being my first thread, I would request the Mods to make changes wherever necessary.
You have done a very good job at penning your thoughts and by no way I could make out this would be your first thread. Kudos to your efforts.

Quote:
I own a 2005 model Toyota Innova G3 D4D. We bought the Innova second-hand from my father's friend in Feb 2012. It had done 116000 kms when we bought it and right now is hovering around 157000 kms. All was good with the car with nothing major to report till a few months back.
Though I an not facing any issue as of now (touchwood), mine too is a pre-worshipped one similar like yours, only difference being it is a 2009 model with under 50K on the odo, Last 8 months I have clocked 15K though. I went for the Innova over other cars, just because of its "bullet proof reliability". But this post of your has set the alarm bells ringing in my mind.

Quote:
Took her to Harsha Toyota the very next day. They kept her for around 3 days and finally the service advisor called saying that there was a problem with the Fuel Pressure Pump and that it needed to be changed. Upon asking about the cost of the pump, very casually he said that it would cost Rs. 65000 under exchange to replace the pump. Now that is a lot of money to be spent on a 10 year old car, Actually more than 15% of the present market value of the car. Called Radhakrishna Toyota for a quote and what a shock I got. Rs. 80000. We finally contemplated selling the Innova and started looking for alternatives.
That's really a bummer. Toyota spare part prices are ridiculously high

Quote:
On Team-Bhp, I stumbled upon a few threads which mentioned about problems with the Innovaís Fuel pump. Then on further searching, I reached a Thai website where there were hundreds of Innova owners complaining about similar problems that I was facing. By this time I had got to know that I was not the only one facing a problem with an Innova.
That is the beauty of this forum. You have a query, TBHP has an answer. Thanks to members like you who volunteer to share their experiences for the benefit of others.

Quote:
Mr. Afzal Khan himself hooked up the OBD scanner to my Innova and tried to check for any fault codes. Again, no error codes showed up. He was nice enough to call up the engineers at the Denso India headquarters and discussed my carís problems in detail. They too suggested to change the fuel pump. Now coming to the price: Star Diesel quoted Rs. 30800 for the fuel pump and Rs. 2000 for labour charges. The price difference was astonishing to say the least. Got the fuel pump changed at Star Diesel and what a difference that has made. The car runs better than a new Innova, starts like it should, has immense torque through the gears and the acceleration is unbelievable. It now feels better than it felt when we bought the Innova.
Vow, it means Toyota authorized dealers were charging you between 200 to 300% of the original price, that is day light robbery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sparrow View Post
Quoting my previous posts. I too had a premature fuel pump failure at 67K kms and replaced it with a refurbished one in 2011. Car has been running fine till now and crossed 100 K kms.
Atleast the cost quoted for you is less than what I paid in 2011. Did not research on any private service guys for the Denso pump since all our cars were going to the respective ASS...
That you for sharing your experience Jack Sparrow. Was there any issue with the FIPs of particular batches of Innova? In that case Toyota should have recalled cars from there batches and done a voluntary replacement.
AutoIndian is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2015, 12:21   #7
BHPian
 
speedmunster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 132
Thanked: 91 Times
Default re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sparrow View Post
Quoting my previous posts. I too had a premature fuel pump failure at 67K kms and replaced it with a refurbished one in 2011. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Thank you for sharing your experience with this group speedmunster. This is really an eye opener for me.

... In that case Toyota should have recalled cars from there batches and done a voluntary replacement.


Jack Sparrow, your thread was one of the very helpful ones that I had read while going through the whole mess. The difference between your car and mine was the error codes. Mine showed none.

AotoIndian, thanks for the compliments about the thread. What I understand is that the post 2009 model Innovas that come with the intercooler are better equipped to cope with adulterated fuel and should give you many miles of trouble free motoring.

Last edited by speedmunster : 14th July 2015 at 12:24. Reason: Quoting
speedmunster is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2015, 13:06   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
AutoIndian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: PCMC, Pune-MH14
Posts: 3,069
Thanked: 3,726 Times
Default Re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedmunster View Post
AotoIndian, thanks for the compliments about the thread. What I understand is that the post 2009 model Innovas that come with the intercooler are better equipped to cope with adulterated fuel and should give you many miles of trouble free motoring.
Unfortunately mine is a non-intercooler version, Nov-2008 manufactured and registered in March 2009. So going forward I will have to keep my fingers crossed and be always mindful of the FIP issues.

Another point I have to take care is to tank up the car only from good reputed bunks (especially COCOs). I have the habit of going to remote places/ unchartered territories. Will have to make sure not to tank up from remote areas else be prepared for FIP issues.

Edit:
Quote:
Jack Sparrow, your thread was one of the very helpful ones that I had read while going through the whole mess. The difference between your car and mine was the error codes. Mine showed none.
I tried to search for this thread, but unfortunately I could not trace any thread started by Jack Sparrow. Would you or Jack Sparrow mind sharing the url?

Last edited by AutoIndian : 14th July 2015 at 13:10.
AutoIndian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2015, 13:07   #9
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 46,224
Thanked: 78,465 Times
Default Re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
This is a vehicle very popular on the taxi service. So, one, the fuel pump should not be susceptible to failure, and two, even if it does, I doubt a business owner would be willing to shell out 30k+ for a fuel pump.
One of the most common causes of fuel pump failure is running the tank on fumes (low fuel). In many fuel pumps, the lubrication is provided by the fuel itself. I hate to see cars running with the 'reserve fuel' light showing. I never let my cars go below the 1/4th level.
GTO is offline   (16) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2015, 13:27   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
AutoIndian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: PCMC, Pune-MH14
Posts: 3,069
Thanked: 3,726 Times
Default Re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
One of the most common causes of fuel pump failure is running the tank on fumes (low fuel). In many fuel pumps, the lubrication is provided by the fuel itself. I hate to see cars running with the 'reserve fuel' light showing. I never let my cars go below the 1/4th level.
Thanks for pitching into this discussion and point well made . Speedmunster and Jack Sparrow, do any one of you recollect running your car with almost dry fuel tank or at a fuel level well below the reserve? Or to put it in perspective have you ever done a tankful where the quantity of diesel that went in was very close to 55 litres?

GTO I am following your principle of not letting the fuel level in the tank go below the 1/4th level

Innova's fuel tank capacity = 55 litres
1/4th level fuel quantity = 13.75 litres
Fuel to be filled on each tankful = 55-13.75 = 41.25 litres

In my 24 tankfuls till date, I have averaged out at 41.47 litres in every refuelling, which seems to be very close to the 1/4th level guideline.

Last edited by GTO : 15th July 2015 at 12:04. Reason: Typo
AutoIndian is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2015, 09:39   #11
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi
Posts: 456
Thanked: 116 Times
Default Re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

I never knew this. Thanks GTO and Auto Indian for giving this very important information. I will henceforth always follow this practice.

BTW, does the fuel pump make a noise while functioning?
deepfusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2015, 09:50   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
mayankk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 4,034
Thanked: 3,169 Times
Default Re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
One of the most common causes of fuel pump failure is running the tank on fumes (low fuel). In many fuel pumps, the lubrication is provided by the fuel itself. I hate to see cars running with the 'reserve fuel' light showing. I never let my cars go below the 1/4th level.
Thats true. I got my first diesel ever just a couple of years back, and this was hammered into my head not just on Tbhp, but also by my mechanic. However, I checked with him, and he said, for the tucson, even through Mobis, the fuel pump will not be so much, 30k+. Is it true that the Innova's could be so much, and with A.S.S, close to a lac???
I ask because there is one in my family, and I would like to be in the know.
mayankk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2015, 09:54   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
AutoIndian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: PCMC, Pune-MH14
Posts: 3,069
Thanked: 3,726 Times
Default Re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepfusion View Post
I never knew this. Thanks GTO and Auto Indian for giving this very important information. I will henceforth always follow this practice.

BTW, does the fuel pump make a noise while functioning?
The fuel pump gets its drive from the crank shaft if I am not wrong. Hence fuel pump works when the engine is cranking or running. You would hardly ever be able to differentiate the fuel pump noise from that of the engine noise for the simple reason that the engine noise is far more prominent compared to the pump noise.

Last edited by GTO : 15th July 2015 at 12:06. Reason: Language
AutoIndian is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote Received Infraction
Old 15th July 2015, 10:03   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
rakesh_r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PNQ/MUM/PKD
Posts: 1,010
Thanked: 595 Times
Default Re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepfusion View Post
I never knew this. Thanks GTO and Auto Indian for giving this very important information. I will henceforth always follow this practice.

BTW, does the fuel pump make a noise while functioning?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
The fuel pump gets its drive from the crank shaft if I am not wrong. Hence fuel pump works when the engine is cranking or running. You would hardly ever be able to differentiate the fuel pump noise from that of the engine noise for the simple reason that the engine noise is far more prominent compared to the pump noise.
AutoIndian-Those are the mechanical type fuel pumps.The electronic ones are located inside the tank itself.The moment you switch ON the ignition the pump starts pumping fuel for some time and cuts OFF later till you switch ON the engine.
All pumps do make some sound, sort of a slight hissing/humming sound.Next time when switch ON the ignition stand outside your car,you will listen a faint humming or hissing sound.I get that sound in my swift DI.
PS-The sound is more noticeable in Royal Enfields with Fuel injection.

Last edited by GTO : 15th July 2015 at 12:06. Reason: Quoted post edited
rakesh_r is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2015, 15:03   #15
BHPian
 
speedmunster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 132
Thanked: 91 Times
Default Re: Innova Fuel Pump: Replaced at Denso service center for 50% of the price of Toyota dealership

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
One of the most common causes of fuel pump failure is running the tank on fumes (low fuel). In many fuel pumps, the lubrication is provided by the fuel itself. I hate to see cars running with the 'reserve fuel' light showing. I never let my cars go below the 1/4th level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Thanks for pitching into this discussion and point well made . Speedmunster and Jack Sparrow, do any one of ..........

We have been driving Diesels since a very long time and never have I let the tank of any car go empty. Refilling as soon as the yellow light comes on. In fact with the Innova, never below the quarter tank level.

One of the reasons quoted by most people I met was the bad quality of fuel. They in fact said that the bad fuel damages the injectors too but in my case the injectors seemed to be doing absolutely fine.

I guess I just got unlucky with the Pressure Pump.
speedmunster is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Fiat/Tata Dealership/Service Center in North Bangalore. Zenster Indian Car Dealerships 19 14th August 2016 18:41
1 month old BMW 520D : Breakdown, fuel-pump replaced Krishnan Technical Stuff 13 26th March 2014 10:04
Denso's Automotive Technologies @ Auto Expo 2012 jalsa777 Technical Stuff 11 10th February 2012 00:01
Mercedes-Benz India opens State-of-the-art dealership & service center - Ahmedabad hanmust The Indian Car Scene 5 18th June 2009 10:30
Wanted: 2nd hand Fuel Pump / Fuel Pump Body ramie2400 Shifting gears 2 6th October 2007 11:16


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 08:05.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks