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Old 15th July 2015, 16:56   #16
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

It's not clear whether the owner was aware of the age of the vehicle at the time of purchase. If the discount offered was on account of the age of the vehicle and this was understood by the owner, I don't see what the problem is.

As for the current troubles, I think that the dealer's lack of transparency is troubling and unethical. But BMW seem to have acted swiftly to replace the engine. But the work itself was carried out poorly by the dealer leading to new troubles. I think that BMW may not be legally obligated to replace the car (debatable point) but it would be in their commercial interest to replace the car in order to keep the customer happy. In fact, for such a loyal customer, they ought to be bending backwards to keep him happy.
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Old 15th July 2015, 17:44   #17
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

Its the incidences like these that make me wonder sometimes that even if customers who can buy BMW 640D can be taken for a ride in India, then what about the others who can only afford to buy maybe a City, Linea, Verna? Its pathetic ,when it comes to after sales in India and for that matter be it anything. Alas, here we are talking about something that costs a whopping amount, which most of us don't have houses worth the amount.
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Old 15th July 2015, 17:46   #18
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

While the acquisition cost of the motor vehicle in this discussion is certainly high, the core issue is that the company has been unable to fully rectify the actual problem in the vehicle.. it seems they were confident that a new engine will make it good as new. I assume things like cost, warranty terms, discount, date of production etc would've already been discussed before the acquisition of the 6er & even if they weren't the invoice clearly mentions all of the said points & seemingly also has been accepted by the purchaser so one cannot blame the dealership or company on those counts, retroactively.

However, its important that the company take all measures to finally label the problem by analysing why there are so many electrical issues. I feel they need one more chance to set the existing vehicle right (in case its a simple issue as wiring/software glitch), if after their test drive issues crop up then replacement is the only way to go. Its not everyday that a customer will purchase a car of this price range & unless they show a great reason to deserve loyalty prospectively, there will be none.
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Old 15th July 2015, 17:59   #19
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

Even if the customer willingly purchased the 3 year old exotic car, I think Rs 18 Lakh discount is too less a compensation. This may not be a valid argument, but what would be the depreciated cost of a Rs 1.25 Crore car after 3 years of purchase?? It wont be more than Rs 50-60 Lakhs max.

Considering the fact that the car has been stranded in stockyard for 3 years, a Rs 75 Lakh purchase prize would have been a good deal!

Last edited by akash_m : 15th July 2015 at 18:00.
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Old 15th July 2015, 18:27   #20
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

GTO, what did the dealer mean by 'Engine lubrication system reset'? Did he mean that the oil and the oil filter were replaced and then it was reset in the car 'vehicle setup' or is it something else?
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Old 15th July 2015, 18:36   #21
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

The owner definitely deserves either a full refund or a brand new 640d. Its after all hard earned blood money, and if at all BMW do not do so, atleast I am never going to recommend a BMW to anyone. Nor would I buy one(As if I were able to afford one )
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Old 15th July 2015, 19:07   #22
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

Quote:
Originally Posted by petrolveins View Post
Having said this, I have a question - Maybe the customer evaluated the risk vs. reward (3 yrs old vs. 18 Lakhs discount) and decided to go ahead with the purchase knowing fully the repercussions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sudev View Post
For instance even without VIN check the sale certificate itself says date of manufacture as Nov 2011. So how was customer not aware of this?
Customer may very well have been aware of the year of manufacture. Yes, it was not very smart on his part to negotiate just 18 lakhs of discount over the current price when the actual price of the car was far lesser in that year of launch.

However I think we are missing the point here. When one buys a car from a different model year than the current one the premise is not that it may have a catastrophic failure. Yes, you may have problems around hard tires that crack or may be a weak battery that lasts only another year etc. You get the discount on the price because no one will buy an old model year car for the price of new and the dealer wants to move the stock. Otherwise the warranty and any other coverages (say BSI in this case) holds just as good as any other new car. If it would have been any different BMW wont have sold the BSI to you or for that matter given you any warranty at all. It was not sold on As-Is basis.

So in my opinion this failure of catastrophic proportions is definitely not expected to happen and BMW is fully liable for a car that turns out to be a lemon in every sense.

Last edited by Zappo : 15th July 2015 at 19:09.
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Old 16th July 2015, 00:17   #23
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

Yet another case of german being stranded on the road. Not reliable at all. Should ask for full refund plus the more amount as compensation to the customer. Pathetic.
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Old 16th July 2015, 00:20   #24
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Default qwa

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

NOTE: I have verified the service records & official email communication in reference to this car.

• Car towed to dealer. The dealer dismantles & removes the engine without taking prior permission from the owner!

What in God’s name does the dealer mean by "Goodwill basis" ?? The car is barely 6 months old and whooping 1.25Cr!! Car comes with 2 years standard warranty irrespective of the manufacturing date, Warranty starts from when the car is sold to the Customer. The audacity of this dealer to mention "goodwill basis"? An Engine Replacement on a car like this is no joke! With so many gizmos and electronics controlling everything this kind of replacement requires specialized people with proper know how. I highly doubt the grease monkeys at the dealership are competent enough to carry out such tasks.
BMW should not associate themselves with such dealers. They bring down the brand image. And as others have pointed out what exactly does "Engine lubrication system reset" mean ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
I would be surprised if BMW international does not replace the vehicle outright. BMW is a class outfit.
Dan, this may be true in other counties but in a country like India where there is very little or no consumer protection, BMW India will not replace the car, all they will do is forward the emails and complaints back to the same dealer. We have seen this happen before and I am afraid the same will continue until we have more laws protecting the consumers.

Last edited by Captain Slow : 16th July 2015 at 00:23.
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Old 16th July 2015, 00:30   #25
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Attachment 1392357


• The shocker: Even after the engine was replaced & car returned to the customer (10th July 2015), new problems surfaced. There is excessive engine vibration and a warning on the MID stating that the 'engine oil level is excessive'. The electronics are messed up (e.g. headlamp washers pop out randomly & splash water). These are complex cars - there is no way an engine install at the dealer level will ever match up to factory standards.

• I have no doubt in my mind that the car lying around with the dealer had something to do with the engine failure. Cars aren't meant to be standing in a stockyard for 3 years. Plus, there's the chance of damage from the elements (weather, rodents) and joyrides too.

• Owner wants a full refund. My opinion? The customer is entitled to it. He's paid a whopping 1.25 crores for the car! He deserves a brand-new 640d as a replacement. He hasn't paid top rupee for a car with such severe defects.

Attachment 1392358
Hi GTO

You say that these are complex cars and an engine install at dealer level cannot match up to factory standards. Do you mean that every BMW car which belongs to this series/segment and requires an engine replacement in warranty should necessarily be replaced?

If BMW can fix engine vibration, excessive oil level and electronic issues to perfection in one go with a promise to replace the car if any of these issues reoccur again in a given amount of time, will that be enough?

Did the customer get a discount in exchange for the older car? In that case that discount amount should be paid back to the dealer if the customer is expecting a brand new car with a recent manufacturing date.

Just my two cents, I don't represent any manufacturer or dealership.

Cheers!

Last edited by iron.head : 16th July 2015 at 00:41.
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Old 16th July 2015, 09:02   #26
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

Goodness ! this is criminal on the part of dealer to spoil such a beauty.

Buying an old production date car would have been buyer's decision though no one would expect such failures from the such sophisticated cars.

I doubt if replacement of car is a solution here; at max BMW should fly in a sr. guy to oversee and rectify the issues that have cropped up as part of engine replacement. The sooner the better.

- In addition to this the engines is required to be endorsed in the registration certificate of the car
- Resale would be a problem (if it happen) as the service history of the car will have the record of this replacement and all other issues have appeared and addressed (if BMW fixes it)
-Negligence on the part of dealer is clearly visible as engine dismantling has been carried out without express consent of owner (as if dealer was expecting this to happen and was ready with a engine replacement solution); equally doubtful would be to agree if the engine replaced is actually new or a refurbished one !
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Old 16th July 2015, 10:10   #27
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Default Re: qwa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
...Dan, this may be true in other counties but in a country like India where there is very little or no consumer protection, BMW India will not replace the car, all they will do is forward the emails and complaints back to the same dealer. We have seen this happen before and I am afraid the same will continue until we have more laws protecting the consumers.
I am betting that a man who can afford a 1.25 crore automobile can also buy himself a little "consumer protection". He will circumvent Indian bureaucracy and foot-dragging and deal directly with Beemer Germany...his lawyer will, anyway. Or BMW India will soon recognise that such a customer has connections and influence.

What can I say, he should have bought a Maruti K10 instead. Almost the same car

Last edited by n_aditya : 16th July 2015 at 10:20. Reason: broken quote tags fixed
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Old 16th July 2015, 15:26   #28
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

Quote:
Originally Posted by petrolveins View Post
Having said this, I have a question - Maybe the customer evaluated the risk vs. reward (3 yrs old vs. 18 Lakhs discount) and decided to go ahead with the purchase knowing fully the repercussions?
Quote:
For instance even without VIN check the sale certificate itself says date of manufacture as Nov 2011. So how was customer not aware of this?
Not sure if he was aware of the car's age or not at the time of purchase (I did however forward him the VIN report). Nevertheless, even if you buy an 'old' new car, you don't expect an engine failure! Its supposed to perform as brand new. That's why the manufacturer's warranty kicks in from the time of your delivery.

BTW, here is an excellent website to decode BMWs - Link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
what does it mean resetting the lub system??
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.ashoka View Post
GTO, what did the dealer mean by 'Engine lubrication system reset'?
I have absolutely no clue. Which is why I put that line up in quotes.

Considering that the lubrication system failed within 4,000 kms though, I think it was something more significant than an oil & filter change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudev View Post
@GTO - What you have reported is it the full story?
All that I know about it is in the thread. I've also seen emails between the owner & BMW / dealership, so have no doubt on the authenticity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron.head View Post
You say that these are complex cars and an engine install at dealer level cannot match up to factory standards. Do you mean that every BMW car which belongs to this series/segment and requires an engine replacement in warranty should necessarily be replaced?
If you see the complexity of these cars, you'll end up scared. My C220's dashboard was opened up once for an evaporator swap and I was . No dealer will ever be able to match factory standards of an engine install. Not unless you have the highest level or precision & expertise which - lets admit - is the exception rather than the norm here.

99% of car owners never have to go through the burden of an engine swap. Reason = As long as you don't do anything stupid and change the oil / timing belts on time, a modern engine will easily last over 2 lakh kms without requiring a rebuild. How many original owners retain their car beyond 5 years, leave alone 2 - 3 lakh kms?

Then, when your engine has worn out, you'd get a rebuild (not an engine swap). A full engine swap is very rare with stock cars (more commonplace in the world of modifications).
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Old 16th July 2015, 17:20   #29
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Not a very good story to say the least.

When they say

what does it mean resetting the lub system??

I'm not so sure that sitting idle for three years would have any deteriorating effect on the oil system as such. On the oil definitely, but in this case I doubt we will ever hear the true story of what was wrong with this engine. Do we know if it stalled or seized?

Must be very frustrating.

Jeroen
These cars have electronic data logging for when the oil was changed last, im guessing it monitors both km readings and age. When the limit for either is achieved the notification shows up on the dash. Assuming the car was sitting for 3 years, the shelf life of the oil was over anyways, so the system must have triggered the service due indication. Which may have been reset to turn off the notification. Usually this is done post an oil change. Did they change the oil or not before sale, thats another question, but this being india, id assume that they didnt.
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Old 16th July 2015, 17:53   #30
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Default Re: BMW 640d: Severe Engine failure in only 4,000 kms! Engine swapped by dealer, new problems surfac

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudev View Post
@GTO - What you have reported is it the full story? For instance even without VIN check the sale certificate itself says date of manufacture as Nov 2011. So how was customer not aware of this? If the car is leased from BMW Finance then best is to dump it back at them and ask for replacement.
The sale certificate is a joke, the date on that can easily be changed by the dealer as it is made by them. Many do follow the malpractice of changing the sale certificate MFD to fool customers and give them a benefit of a more recent MFD on the RC.
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