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View Poll Results: Your preference?
Touchscreen 42 16.73%
Buttons, knobs & switches 209 83.27%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 5th November 2016, 18:55   #76
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Default Re: Touchscreen v/s Tactile Buttons on ICE HUs

I would say the combination of both is the best! A touchscreen HU with physical buttons for the most important and most often used functions is my ideal HU. Add to that steering mounted controls, and you have the optimal combination of display (for maps, other useful apps) and buttons.

I am using this android HU (picture below) in my SX4. This has physical buttons for power, volume, radio tuner, GPS (google maps configured to open with this button), and a few other things. Plus my steering controls work perfectly with this HU. With those, I get mode (source) selection, volume, next/prev track (these also work for next/prev preset radio station), mute buttons. That's enough hardware buttons for most of the normal scenarios.

And coming to the display/HU part itself, it enables a lot more functionality than any buttons-only HU can ever have. For example, you can see the Torque OBDII app running on my HU in the picture.

Touchscreen / Feather Touch Controls: Boon or Bane?-hu.jpg
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Old 5th November 2016, 19:33   #77
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Default Re: Touchscreen v/s Tactile Buttons on ICE HUs

A fourth option of - a bit of both - would have secured most votes IMHO. I personally like the ease of use of the physical knobs and buttons. When you press something; you know it, especially while driving.

But the touch screen systems are here because car companies want to offer the latest tech available. Reviewers complain that the interiors look dated etc if they dont see spaceship like tech in the center console. Also, often its the industry and the tech world that sets standards. A lot of us were happy texting on the older phones - pressing one button multiple times for one alphabet, and some of us got real good at it. But then came the qwertys and the smartphones and we moved on; lapping up whatever was the latest tech.
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Old 7th November 2016, 09:44   #78
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Default Re: Touchscreen v/s Tactile Buttons on ICE HUs

I have always preferred a HU with dedicated tactile buttons for all the necessary operations. A touchscreen system is a huge distraction while we are driving. It might look cool, serve the additional purpose of a reverse camera screen, etc. but to use it if one has to take ones eye off the road, then it's a strict no-no for me.

My OE music system comes with tactile buttons and for me, it is very easy to use. Only when required, my left hand fiddles on the system facia to press the necessary buttons while my eyes are firmly set on the road. I remember the placement of the buttons and hence, I can 'blindly' fiddle with the system.

On the other hand, in my friend's Baleno, I have a real tough time pressing the right buttons, especially when the roads are not smooth. Mind you, I do this when I am in the passenger seat and yet, face the problem. While I am the one driving, I don't go beyond the Volume up-down and Track change buttons from the steering control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Similar thread here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...boon-bane.html (Touchscreen / Feather Touch Controls: Boon or Bane?)

Talking about the dependability, build and feel of button-based HU is like reminiscing about this -

Attachment 1573757

Button-based HUs will go the way of Nokia brick phone in a few years. There is no way they can compete with versatility and multi-functionality (reversing camera, TPMS, video display, park assist etc) of a touchscreen HU.
While using the phone, we can dedicate all our senses to the phone and hence, apart from the lack of feel, touch screen doesn't much of a problem. But if you are using the phone while driving, I would again go for a Nokia brick phone. I remember few years back, my friend was so used to the keypad, he could type any message of any length without looking at the screen of his old Sony Ericsson with tactile buttons. Today he uses an iPhone and needless to say, he has to look at the screen to perform any action. I hope you understand what I intend to say.

PS: My friend uses Siri quite a lot. Now that I think of it, something similar for our HU can help overcome some of the shortcomings of the touchscreen HUs. Mostly it will be expensive right now but few years from now, it can be available on all HUs (something like what Ford offers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.AD View Post
I would say the combination of both is the best!
Yes that is the best case scenario. User should have dedicated buttons for all the basic necessary functions. For the extra bits, navigation, etc there is always the touchscreen. But in this case, there should be a button to lock the screen (like we have in our phones). This will ensure that while we operate the physical buttons, we don't accidentally press something on the screen.

My 2 cents.
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Old 7th November 2016, 10:23   #79
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Default Re: Touchscreen v/s Tactile Buttons on ICE HUs

My car has a touchscreen with steering controls, so that is a life saver. All my operations are done from the steering controls only. Also, there is the voice control which also works pretty decently. I use the touch buttons only when the vehicle is at a stand still as otherwise I find it hugely distracting. Fortunately, almost all the frequently used controls are available in the steering control.

I must say, the touchscreen looks very cool though.

Mods: Probably another choice to the poll? Touchscreen with steering controls
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Old 4th August 2017, 22:35   #80
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Default Manufacturers moving away from switchgear

I must admit, I was very excited for the launch of the model 3 and was closely following this thread as well:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intern...ies-begin.html (The Tesla Model 3, a $35,000 sedan. EDIT: Specs revealed & deliveries begin)

The interiors was what I thought would be the biggest draw for the car itself. Tesla is one of the few American Manufacturers who knows how to make best in class interiors that can compete with equally priced Germans, and I expected the same with the model 3 as well.

However, I was a bit disappointed when Tesla revealed the interiors. I expected loads of switches with the touchscreen solely as a supplement, but I was a bit shocked to find no switches, knobs or dials at all!

Here's a shot of the cockpit:
Touchscreen / Feather Touch Controls: Boon or Bane?-silverteslamodel3interiorcupholdertouchscreen.jpg

Another shot. Notice the absolute lack of any switchgear except for the window switches and the steering mounted controls:
Name:  tesla_03.jpg
Views: 1055
Size:  44.3 KB

Manufacturers do seem to be moving away from switchgear nowadays. I am not reffering to the ICE solely. There is a seperate thread for the same. However, even the A/C controls are nowhere in sight.

Volvos have it better where you have an option to use the tactile switches or the touchscreen. But Tesla doesn't have that option. You have to use the touchscreen only.

One upside is that manufacturers are going to save on costs for switchgear atleast, considering that touchscreens are now getting more common by the day.

I would love to hear fellow bhpian's views about the same.

Regards,
vishy
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Old 5th August 2017, 01:19   #81
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Default Re: Manufacturers moving away from switchgear

Meanwhile, here is the cockpit of latest Boeing 787 jetliner. There are still a million switches and knobs.

Touchscreen / Feather Touch Controls: Boon or Bane?-27448568185_a0f1c338c9_k.jpg

Are the car makers on right track?
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Old 5th August 2017, 03:46   #82
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Default Re: Manufacturers moving away from switchgear

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post
The interiors was what I thought would be the biggest draw for the car itself. Tesla is one of the few American Manufacturers who knows how to make best in class interiors that can compete with equally priced Germans, and I expected the same with the model 3 as well.

However, I was a bit disappointed when Tesla revealed the interiors. I expected loads of switches with the touchscreen solely as a supplement, but I was a bit shocked to find no switches, knobs or dials at all!
We are moving into an era of connected vehicles where even your car can be remotely debugged and reset. Tesla has many famous examples.

In a world like that, switch gear is a baggage from the past. It has less to do with costs, than to do with end to end control of the vehicle by software. Integrating switchgear is harder than integrating controls that are already operated by software.

@smartcat - with aircraft, you need manual controls because there its about being prepared for life and death situations with fine grained control. The context is TOTALLY different. The car is a connected household appliance and is beginning to look the part - just like amazon echo

Last edited by Samurai : 6th August 2017 at 18:05. Reason: avoid quoting the whole post
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Old 13th August 2017, 10:47   #83
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Default Re: Touchscreen / Feather Touch Controls: Boon or Bane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
A touchscreen system is a huge distraction while we are driving. It might look cool, serve the additional purpose of a reverse camera screen, etc. but to use it if one has to take ones eye off the road, then it's a strict no-no for me.
... there should be a button to lock the screen (like we have in our phones). This will ensure that while we operate the physical buttons, we don't accidentally press something on the screen.

My 2 cents.
Well said. That wisdom is worth $2 million not 2 cents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post
Volvos have it better where you have an option to use the tactile switches or the touchscreen. But Tesla doesn't have that option. You have to use the touchscreen only.
Sensible alternative. Volvo always put safety first and clearly the need to operate a car without looking down at a screen albeit for 1.5 seconds is something they have checked up on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Meanwhile, here is the cockpit of latest Boeing 787 jetliner. There are still a million switches and knobs.

Attachment 1663798

Are the car makers on right track?
Thank you Smartcat. In my opinion the car makers who adopt only a touch screen option are going down the wrong road from a safety point of view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
We are moving into an era of connected vehicles .....In a world like that, switch gear is a baggage from the past.

@smartcat - with aircraft, you need manual controls because there its about being prepared for life and death situations with fine grained control. The context is TOTALLY different. The car is a connected household appliance and is beginning to look the part.
Sorry phamilyman. Here is a different perspective. Aircraft and cars are both instruments of transportation that move at speed and can cause injury or death. In fact the need for safety is greater in cars given that 99.99% cars are driven by amateurs (all of us are amateurs experienced albeit). The reason we need tactile controls in cars (and aircrafts) is the need to be able to operate functions without taking your eyes off the front and sides. Cars may get more linked in the future but it cannot be equated with the refrigerator or geyser at home. You are right that cars getting linked electronically with other systems is a direction the world will take. Technology for its own sake because it seems more modern is something at least I would not recommend where tactile controls are concerned.

Last edited by V.Narayan : 13th August 2017 at 11:11.
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Old 14th August 2017, 01:57   #84
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Default Re: Touchscreen / Feather Touch Controls: Boon or Bane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Sensible alternative. Volvo always put safety first and clearly the need to operate a car without looking down at a screen albeit for 1.5 seconds is something they have checked up on.

In fact the need for safety is greater in cars given that 99.99% cars are driven by amateurs (all of us are amateurs experienced albeit). The reason we need tactile controls in cars (and aircrafts) is the need to be able to operate functions without taking your eyes off the front and sides.
Agreed fully sir. Let's explore your line of thinking further. Unlike an aircraft where a lot of subsystems have / need manual overrides, the questions to think about are -
  1. What is the intended use case for Tesla? America where the highways are often so straight you could change clothes while driving. This reminds me of Apple's iOS 10 update which initially took away the ability to set 2G only mode. They forgot Indians sometimes need 2G for call quality.
  2. What in your mind, are the minimum activities required in an emergency situation in the car, that necessitate the use of the knobs otherwise found on the dash? Besides operating the windows and the music system, everything else just needs operation of the steering wheel / pedals - in my mind. What did I miss? I could be wrong, or simply a Tesla fan, but I'm hard pressed to think of what else.
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Old 14th August 2017, 02:38   #85
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Default Re: Touchscreen / Feather Touch Controls: Boon or Bane?

I usually dream up of practical/safety technologies in all aspect of life during my creative moments, maybe in a subconscious attempt to become the next entrepreneur to bring something truly great to this earth (guy can dream can't he?)

I've always disliked touch/feather controls in everything, but we can ignore it in phones and laptops/tablets largely because a mistake there would mean a waste of a few seconds making a couple of typos or sending messages/calling the wrong people. As embarrassing as it might be, its nothing compared to a mistake made when driving on the road. Yes, touch IS NOT intuitive, and Steve Jobs (I always give due praise for his Stanford commencement speech and for his stubborn, inflexible leadership ways) could've jumped up and down trying to convince everyone it is but it is not.

Here's my wishlist for car information/entertainment/navigation controls :

1) A BMW-esque augmented reality HUD (heads-up display) that'd show current speeds, direction via arrow markings and also vital information like fuel low, air pressure low or any other warnings thrown directly on the windscreen.

2) An Audi-esque virtual cockpit where a digital screen is in the centre of the two cluster gauges (I want analogue clusters) which can show live temp, fuel economy, music/radio data and also can double up as a screen to show the live feed of the front view from the IR camera during dark (again BMW/Merc tech). A single buttons on the steering wheel should enable toggle between the various modes.

3) Good old fashioned center console.. housing air-vents and a simple audio controller with other controls for dual zone a.c, charging points, USB dock, phone charging dock etc. If necessary the charging dock can convert the phone to android auto by seamlessly fusing with the car.

These 3 solve almost every safety related problems.. speedo, directions and warnings like blind-spot assist/lane-keep assist/low fuel right on the windscreen so taking the eyes off is not needed at all, the colour screen between the cluster gauges give other info and also IR cam/reverse cam views so that you can reverse by looking straight and a dock that makes the phone itself into Android auto.

Don't see it becoming reality anytime soon though.. and yes for the rest of it including volume adjust, switching menus, changing settings etc I want purely physical controls with great feedback to ensure the driver knows his/her input has been registered.. a voice control button also can be added to the wheel to make it more intuitive.
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Old 14th August 2017, 17:15   #86
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Default Re: Touchscreen / Feather Touch Controls: Boon or Bane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Agreed fully sir. Let's explore your line of thinking further. Unlike an aircraft where a lot of subsystems have / need manual overrides, the questions to think about are -
  1. What is the intended use case for Tesla? America where the highways are often so straight you could change clothes while driving. This reminds me of Apple's iOS 10 update which initially took away the ability to set 2G only mode. They forgot Indians sometimes need 2G for call quality.
  2. What in your mind, are the minimum activities required in an emergency situation in the car, that necessitate the use of the knobs otherwise found on the dash? Besides operating the windows and the music system, everything else just needs operation of the steering wheel / pedals - in my mind. What did I miss? I could be wrong, or simply a Tesla fan, but I'm hard pressed to think of what else.
It is your thinking that "a car is a connected household appliance" that I find to be the root of the fear most of us enthusiasts harbor for the future of the car. Forget about India, even in America, you have way more deaths and accidents in cars than you do in planes. You say the highways are so straight? Well to that I say that flight traffic is so less in comparison and the skies are vast with the option to move in two more directions (up and down). There is a reason why Autopilot in planes have been implemented much before than in cars. Cars are actually more dangerous. They have a limited range of motion (can only move forward/backward, left/right) planes have to deal with less traffic and have a wider range of motion. I spent the summer interning at a leading developer of autonomous driving solutions for most automobile majors. We have reached an age where just because of the affordability factor, people treat cars like a household appliance. I can bet that 99.9% of the drivers on the road, cannot handle their car at or even anywhere near the limits it is designed to perform at. That is why you have so many accidents stating "loss of control around a bend" or "accelerator pedal was stuck between the floor-mat" don't you think it is sad that this kind of thinking has rendered most of us incapable of saving ourselves from a slight bend or from deducing in time that the floor-mat is misaligned and is causing some pedal to get stuck? With such a careless attitude towards driving, we need to be nannyed. We cannot expect ourselves to be responsible enough. Do you really find it far-fetched to think that accidents could occur because some careless nut is finding it difficult to accurately set the temperature while driving down the highway in his brand new Honda, when people cant even save themselves from a floor mat?

We enthusiasts complain about dead steering in a Hyundai; not simply because we are addicted to the responsiveness but a more communicative steering allows you to feel the road and more accurately judge limits of traction. In the same way, the simple physical feeling attached toward rotating a knob to increase the volume or pushing up on a button on the steering wheel, cannot ever be replaced by a capacitive touchscreen. Its ultimate function can be, but the confidence inspiring action involved in using it, cannot be. Confidence, is safety.

Last edited by IshaanIan : 14th August 2017 at 17:18.
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Old 15th August 2017, 09:19   #87
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Default Re: Touchscreen / Feather Touch Controls: Boon or Bane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
It is your thinking that "a car is a connected household appliance" that I find to be the root of the fear most of us enthusiasts harbor for the future of the car.
Fair point. But that's the reality. The enthusiast is a much smaller market than the mango (wo)man.

Why else would Bajaj make the dominar with a piddle of a fuel tank? Manufacturers unfortunately pander to the masses.

And I would argue that the differential safety improvement between touchscreen and knobs is not that high - but I agree there is a difference.
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