Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th November 2015, 08:56   #46
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Khopoli
Posts: 28
Thanked: 19 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I personally don't believe in these 15,000 kms service intervals and would never make my car suffer them. They're only there because of marketing reasons. There is no way regular engine oil is good enough for 15,000 kms in our stressful driving conditions.

I change the engine oil of my cars anywhere between 7,500 - 10,000 kms (absolute upper limit). If I ever buy a car with 15k service intervals, I'll change the oil myself at my own cost at 10k.

If the oil has indeed gunked up in this Punto, that could require an engine rebuild. But when the engine oil goes bad, the engine oil pressure light usually comes up well in advance. For the OP's sake, I hope it's just a choked fuel filter or something similar.

Awaiting updates, Srivatsahg. What did the workshop say?
Absolutely spot on.Can't agree more.In such inclement conditions(read dust bowl) there is no way an engine oil can last for 15k kms.10k kms is the max,and it should be changed for good.Infact I am also in the habit of changing just the oil filter at 5k kms interval and then again topping it up with the remaining oil during my last fill.This has given me quite a good result.

Last edited by cotterpin : 18th November 2015 at 08:56. Reason: sapcing
cotterpin is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 11:04   #47
BHPian
 
srivatsahg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 128
Thanked: 130 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

My worst fear has come true. I got a call from the S.A that he suspects engine valves may be bent and he is suggesting replacement and could cost me north of 1.5 lakh INR as they need to open up the engine assembly. I'm going to the ASC now. Will post updates on what I hear from them.
srivatsahg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 11:27   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
mayankk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 4,115
Thanked: 3,489 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsahg View Post
My worst fear has come true. I got a call from the S.A that he suspects engine valves may be bent and he is suggesting replacement and could cost me north of 1.5 lakh INR as they need to open up the engine assembly. I'm going to the ASC now. Will post updates on what I hear from them.
He suspects engine valves are bent. Full cost with associated extra bits and pieces for 16 valves is just about 50k on 99rpm. Take your car out of ASC, get it to a good mechanic, please.
mayankk is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 11:32   #49
BHPian
 
srivatsahg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 128
Thanked: 130 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
He suspects engine valves are bent. Full cost with associated extra bits and pieces for 16 valves is just about 50k on 99rpm. Take your car out of ASC, get it to a good mechanic, please.
Yeah, I saw that one on 99RPM yesterday. I can do with 50K INR + 15K on labour charges but definitely 1.5 lakh INR is too much to handle and pay for my sins.
srivatsahg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 11:38   #50
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 521
Thanked: 450 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsahg View Post
My worst fear has come true. I got a call from the S.A that he suspects engine valves may be bent and he is suggesting replacement and could cost me north of 1.5 lakh INR as they need to open up the engine assembly. I'm going to the ASC now. Will post updates on what I hear from them.
Hi srivatsahg,
Sorry to read about the engine problem.
I read on this thread that this is an interference engine; so the valves may get hit in case of timing belt failure. But you had replaced the timing belt IIRC.

So, when your SA tells that the valves are bent, please ask him the reason for that; ask him the exact mode and sequence of damage. And please let us know here.
Rahul Bhalgat is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 11:41   #51
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,713
Thanked: 89,077 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsahg View Post
My worst fear has come true. I got a call from the S.A that he suspects engine valves may be bent
Valves bent? Timing chain gone! Sorry to hear of this, buddy.

Here's a related post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunkk View Post
After leaving it for service, I got a call from service advisor Dayanand stating that there is some sound coming from engine timing belt and he is suggesting to replace it. As per his own words, this timing chain replacement is not mandatory for 75hp punto, but for 90hp punto/linea it is scheduled to replace during 60k service. He suggested me to go for it as my extended warranty was going to get over. He quoted a price of 11.5k for doing this.
My recommendation: Better get it overhauled at an expert independent mechanic (look in the Team-BHP Directory for recommendations in case you don't know someone).
GTO is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 12:11   #52
BHPian
 
srivatsahg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 128
Thanked: 130 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat View Post
Hi srivatsahg,
Sorry to read about the engine problem.
I read on this thread that this is an interference engine; so the valves may get hit in case of timing belt failure. But you had replaced the timing belt IIRC.
So, when your SA tells that the valves are bent, please ask him the reason for that; ask him the exact mode and sequence of damage. And please let us know here.
I had replaced the timing belt and new set of clutch plates during my 65K service just to be on the safer side. Nevertheless, I'm on my way now. Will post the list of things the service adviser has to say to replace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Valves bent? Timing chain gone! Sorry to hear of this, buddy.
My recommendation: Better get it overhauled at an expert independent mechanic (look in the Team-BHP Directory for recommendations in case you don't know someone).
Yes, I think I'm gonna get it to the independent local mechanic.
srivatsahg is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 12:23   #53
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 521
Thanked: 450 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsahg View Post
I had replaced the timing belt and new set of clutch plates during my 65K service just to be on the safer side. Nevertheless, I'm on my way now. Will post the list of things the service adviser has to say to replace.
Timing belt drives a pulley on the camshaft. If the key between the pulley and the camshaft gives up, then you can have this problem with timing belt intact.

Excessive tension in the timing belt can also cause its premature failure.

These parts are not related to prolonged service interval. Inspect the parts yourself, post pictures here.
Rahul Bhalgat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 12:30   #54
Senior - BHPian
 
Chethan B G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,419
Thanked: 693 Times
Arrow Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsahg View Post
Yeah, I saw that one on 99RPM yesterday. I can do with 50K INR + 15K on labour charges but definitely 1.5 lakh INR is too much to handle and pay for my sins.
Hi Srivatsa, Sorry to hear this.

By any chance, is the car under warranty / extended warranty?

As you have got the timing belt replaced at 65k Kms, you can stress upon it and ask the ASC for an explanation for bent valves. You need not be on the back-foot.

If the engine is not yet opened, better to shift the car to some other competent mechanic. I read in your intro thread that you work for Bosch. This is our national engine and spares including competency will be in place at Bosch service center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
My recommendation: Better get it overhauled at an expert independent mechanic (look in the Team-BHP Directory for recommendations in case you don't know someone).
That can also bring down the expenses to less than half.
Chethan B G is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 12:45   #55
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,713
Thanked: 89,077 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsahg View Post
I had replaced the timing belt and new set of clutch plates during my 65K service just to be on the safer side.
Please check the state. If it has snapped again, then it was not properly installed. You could threaten to go the legal route and tell them to rebuild your engine for free (if it was due to the timing chain). Since you're visiting the ASC, first check what exactly caused this engine damage.

Sure is very absurd as timing chains are supposed to be more durable than timing belts.

But the 90PS 1.3L MJD has always had a love-hate relationship with its timing chains. Even the Marutis weren't spared - link (Issues with the Maruti 90 BHP DDiS engine).
GTO is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 13:39   #56
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Jalgaon
Posts: 246
Thanked: 141 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

May be bent? That means the diagnose is still not complete. However if the valves are bent, then the only reason that comes to my mind is, the timing chain wasn't correctly installed during the previous service, which is quite a possibility.

From my Tata experience though, an improperly fit timing belt makes some unusual noises that are a giveaway. Don't know if timing chains make any noises too.

On another note, it's not good to not to change oil for an interval of 20,000 kilometers. It shall do harm in the long run, in as much as piston rings shall go weak leading to oil consumption, turbo will start packing up, etc. Now that you're opening the engine, inspect everything thoroughly.
Swapnil4585 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 13:43   #57
BHPian
 
srivatsahg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 128
Thanked: 130 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Hi Srivatsa, Sorry to hear this.

By any chance, is the car under warranty / extended warranty?

As you have got the timing belt replaced at 65k Kms, you can stress upon it and ask the ASC for an explanation for bent valves. You need not be on the back-foot.

If the engine is not yet opened, better to shift the car to some other competent mechanic. I read in your intro thread that you work for Bosch. This is our national engine and spares including competency will be in place at Bosch service center.
That can also bring down the expenses to less than half.
Yes Chethan, the car is under extended warranty.However since the mistake was on my part not to replenish required oils and filters, I doubt how would that even help. The service adviser is on lunch break. And the engine is not opened as of yet. I know few people at United Motors (Bosch Car Service) Rajajinagar and I plan to take it there. I usually give my Santro there for servicing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Please check the state. If it has snapped again, then it was not properly installed. You could threaten to go the legal route and tell them to rebuild your engine for free (if it was due to the timing chain). Since you're visiting the ASC, first check what exactly caused this engine damage.
.
Thanks for this pointer GTO, I shall keep this in my mind to ask him once he comes back from his lunch break.
srivatsahg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 14:03   #58
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 201
Thanked: 149 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Not changing the oil and filters on time at the Auth. $$ would void the warranty for all moving parts. Legal route is only likely to increase the cash outflow; besides, the A$$ is unlikely to confess to any damage being caused by their (lack of ) workmanship.

The FNG option should work better.
fiestarry is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 15:13   #59
Distinguished - BHPian
 
nkrishnap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,490
Thanked: 4,103 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Wrong installation can most probably ruled out. Wrong installation of timing chain wont make you run 22K Kms. The initial quote is always high. Take a list of all the parts that needs to be replaced and cross check on 99rpm which should help you get to know the exact costs. How is the SA getting to the conclusion that valves are bent? If the valves are bent, then the chances of the Con Rods getting bent are high too.

You can source parts from 99 rpm and get the work done outside at FNG (subject to they know how work on a MJD Engine)
nkrishnap is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 15:54   #60
BHPian
 
srivatsahg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 128
Thanked: 130 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Hi friends
After intense yet peaceful discussion with the Fiat SA. I have come to the decision to take back my car to FNG. The explanation offered was you overshot service interval and the oil tank has 4.5litres of engine oil which is high for Punto MJD and this is the main cause for bent valves resulting in breakdown. The SA also told 1.5 lakhs is just the estimate and it could go upto 2 lakh INR including the labour cost. That was the last thing i wanted to hear from them. I have called a flat bed tow to take it to Bosch Car Service. Rajajinagar.
srivatsahg is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grande Punto Facelift: From baby Maserati to Punto Evo EDIT: Punto 'My Life' on pg.7 sushanthr77 The International Automotive Scene 167 25th November 2011 12:02
Engine stalling at low speeds in my Fiat Grande Punto 1.2 E motor spirit Technical Stuff 20 7th February 2011 19:43
Swift VDI+ABS or Fiat Punto MJD or New Fabia 1.2 Diesel. Edit- Booked Fiat Punto MJD magnanimousdude Hatchbacks 59 27th October 2010 13:18
Fiat Grande Punto and the new Fiat Sedan; Tata-Fiat JV jkdas The Indian Car Scene 37 4th March 2009 17:01


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 01:34.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks