Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th November 2015, 16:11   #61
Senior - BHPian
 
DRIV3R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: India
Posts: 1,655
Thanked: 1,110 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsahg View Post
Hi friends
After intense yet peaceful discussion with the Fiat SA. I have come to the decision to take back my car to FNG. The explanation offered was you overshot service interval and the oil tank has 4.5litres of engine oil which is high for Punto MJD and this is the main cause for bent valves resulting in breakdown. The SA also told 1.5 lakhs is just the estimate and it could go upto 2 lakh INR including the labour cost. That was the last thing i wanted to hear from them. I have called a flat bed tow to take it to Bosch Car Service. Rajajinagar.
If indeed there was 4.5L of oil, you are looking at bigger damages. The turbo would be bust, most oil seals relating to turbo and engine would be bust, the oil pressure reached maximum threshold which is why you got the oil pressure error before the car died.

You may need to clean the turbo-intercooler plumbing and the intercooler as well.

Did you measure and top up oil or just blindly pour in a litre?
DRIV3R is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 16:23   #62
BHPian
 
ms001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: bangalore
Posts: 919
Thanked: 63 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsahg View Post
I have called a flat bed tow to take it to Bosch Car Service. Rajajinagar.
would recommend Harish from pride cars, you can call and discuss with him first, quite competent and honest workshop in my opinion

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/bangal...bangalore.html (Friendly Neighbourhood Garage - Pride Cars (Bangalore))
ms001 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 16:38   #63
Senior - BHPian
 
kpzen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 5,545
Thanked: 1,598 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Srivatsahg

Sorry to hear about the issue.

Suggest you to have a word with Bay6 motorworks Bangalore.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/bangal...bangalore.html (Multi-brand Car Servicing & Repairs - Bay 6 Motorworks (Bangalore))
kpzen is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 20:22   #64
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Indore
Posts: 24
Thanked: 42 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I change the engine oil of my cars anywhere between 7,500 - 10,000 kms (absolute upper limit). If I ever buy a car with 15k service intervals, I'll change the oil myself at my own cost at 10k.
Sorry of this sounds like OT.
My T-Jet first year service was at ~8400km (vehicle is under 3+2 year warranty)
Second year (or 30K on ODO) will be in April 16, with around 18k on ODO.

Third year (or 45K)

Now the question:
As per the warranty clause, does it allow vehicle to be driven to 45k (ie push 25k+ between second and third year -- with interim oil change by your suggestion of course) before the third year service is due? Or, the 15k limit is on last service ODO reading?
rusticnomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 21:46   #65
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pune
Posts: 39
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

I believe that the 15K ( or 10K for other cars, as recommended by manufacturer ) is the life of engine oil and doesn't mean you could carry on until 45K from 18K according to your example.

Having said that, its advisable to not hit the upper threshold of the recommendation.
subirdas is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2015, 23:12   #66
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 521
Thanked: 450 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsahg View Post
Hi friends
After intense yet peaceful discussion with the Fiat SA. I have come to the decision to take back my car to FNG. The explanation offered was you overshot service interval and the oil tank has 4.5litres of engine oil which is high for Punto MJD and this is the main cause for bent valves resulting in breakdown. The SA also told 1.5 lakhs is just the estimate and it could go upto 2 lakh INR including the labour cost. That was the last thing i wanted to hear from them. I have called a flat bed tow to take it to Bosch Car Service. Rajajinagar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
If indeed there was 4.5L of oil, you are looking at bigger damages. The turbo would be bust, most oil seals relating to turbo and engine would be bust, the oil pressure reached maximum threshold which is why you got the oil pressure error before the car died.

You may need to clean the turbo-intercooler plumbing and the intercooler as well.

Did you measure and top up oil or just blindly pour in a litre?
I appreciate the point raised by DRIV3R.

Excess oil (overfill) has potential to damage the engine as follows:
  • There is more churning of the oil by the crankshaft. This results into oil foaming (entrapped air bubbles in the oil).
  • Instead of homogeneous oil, the pump supplies oil + air bubbles to the rubbing parts. This results into poor lubrication and early breakdown of the lubricating oil film. Effect: faster wear, more wear.
  • Because of wear, there is increased blowback past the piston rings. This spoils the oil quality.
  • These gases break down the oil over the time.
    The blowback gases also increase the temperature and pressure in the crankcase. This is dangerous to the seals.

I see more chances of damage to the main bearing (crankshaft bearings) and connecting rods rather than the valves. In more unfortunate case, there could be some damage (breakage / cracks) to the cylinder block.

Please try to be present when the engine is opened. Observe if the damage was caused by faulty timing belt (or its installation) or by the overfill.

Last edited by Rahul Bhalgat : 18th November 2015 at 23:27.
Rahul Bhalgat is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2015, 10:19   #67
BHPian
 
srivatsahg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 128
Thanked: 130 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by ms001 View Post
would recommend Harish from pride cars, you can call and discuss with him first, quite competent and honest workshop in my opinion
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/bangal...bangalore.html (Friendly Neighbourhood Garage - Pride Cars (Bangalore))
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
Srivatsahg

Sorry to hear about the issue.

Suggest you to have a word with Bay6 motorworks Bangalore.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/bangal...bangalore.html (Multi-brand Car Servicing & Repairs - Bay 6 Motorworks (Bangalore))
Thanks for the references, I already towed my car to United Motors on WOC road, I usually get my Santro serviced here.

Update:
As per my request, they will be opening the engine assembly on Saturday. So that I can be present when it is done. I'm planning to do a complete engine overhaul. Parts will be sourced by me based on list given by the mechanic.

Any ideas of the shops where I can get FIAT Genuine parts in JC Road apart from online store 99RPM where I'm planning to get floor mats and other accessories. I just hope the final figure just won't shoot past FIAT A.S.S cost

So my weekend plan is all set.

Last edited by srivatsahg : 19th November 2015 at 10:19. Reason: Removed multiple quotes
srivatsahg is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2015, 10:38   #68
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsahg View Post
Any ideas of the shops where I can get FIAT Genuine parts in JC Road apart from online store 99RPM where I'm planning to get floor mats and other accessories.
Visit your local Maruti Genuine Parts (MGP) Dealer, you can source all the internal engine parts from them, refer the parts book at the counter. Turbo charger and couple of other external parts are different. What they do not have in stock can be ordered against advance part payment and should reach in two weeks time. The advantage being genuine OEM stuff but often lower in cost than buying genuine Fiat.
Sankar is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2015, 11:13   #69
BHPian
 
srivatsahg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 128
Thanked: 130 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Visit your local Maruti Genuine Parts (MGP) Dealer, you can source all the internal engine parts from them, refer the parts book at the counter. Turbo charger and couple of other external parts are different. What they do not have in stock can be ordered against advance part payment and should reach in two weeks time. The advantage being genuine OEM stuff but often lower in cost than buying genuine Fiat.
Sankar does the Internal Engine parts from MGP has for 90PS as well ?
I believe the same parts are shared by Ciaz/Manza/Vista Quadrajet 90 ?
srivatsahg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2015, 11:17   #70
Senior - BHPian
 
DRIV3R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: India
Posts: 1,655
Thanked: 1,110 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsahg View Post
Sankar does the Internal Engine parts from MGP has for 90PS as well ?
I believe the same parts are shared by Ciaz/Manza/Vista Quadrajet 90 ?
Yup, Ertiga as well.

Maruti uses Borg Warner turbo, while Fiat uses TEL. In case you need a new turbo, would advise reaching the local TEL workshop to check refurbishing options, and go for a new one from TEL themselves if beyond repair.

The price difference when you buy direct from TEL/FASS is significant.
DRIV3R is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2015, 12:01   #71
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NOIDA
Posts: 201
Thanked: 30 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Dear Srivatsahg,

It's really unfortunate to see the engine blown off,

Well i would not suggest for a refurbished turbo,

You should go in for a brand new - turbo only,

I own multiple Fiat's and have been maintaining them since long,with Fiat's my affiliation has been since quite long,

In case you need any opinion regarding repair let me know,have helped my friend with engine repairs of 1.3 MJD,

Thanks & Regards
Anupam00
anupam00 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2015, 12:10   #72
BHPian
 
srivatsahg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 128
Thanked: 130 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupam00 View Post
Dear Srivatsahg,
In case you need any opinion regarding repair let me know,have helped my friend with engine repairs of 1.3 MJD,
Thanks & Regards
Anupam00
Thanks a lot Anupam, I would definitely need some assistance from BHPians like you. Since the engine dis-assembly work starts only this Saturday, I would be able to tell you the extent of damage and the list of parts that would need replacement and refurbishing post Saturday.
srivatsahg is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2015, 12:42   #73
Distinguished - BHPian
 
arun_josie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,334
Thanked: 4,225 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by rusticnomad View Post
Sorry of this sounds like OT.
My T-Jet first year service was at ~8400km (vehicle is under 3+2 year warranty)
Second year (or 30K on ODO) will be in April 16, with around 18k on ODO.

Third year (or 45K)

Now the question:
As per the warranty clause, does it allow vehicle to be driven to 45k (ie push 25k+ between second and third year -- with interim oil change by your suggestion of course) before the third year service is due? Or, the 15k limit is on last service ODO reading?
If you are doing the second service at 18K, then the next service will be at 33K or one year from the date of 18K servicing, whichever comes earlier. You can't push it till 45K Kms.
arun_josie is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2015, 14:18   #74
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by srivatsahg View Post
Sankar does the Internal Engine parts from MGP has for 90PS as well ?
I believe the same parts are shared by Ciaz/Manza/Vista Quadrajet 90 ?
Yes, Ertiga and SX4 has the 90HP 1.3MJD in it since a few years now, Ciaz also.

The turbo discharge pipe orientation is different in the 75HP version of Maruti and Fiat due to different the placement of the intercooler in a Swift and Punto. The 90 HP versions may also have a different discharge pipe orientation based on the Intercooler placements; If the discharge pipe orientation is same then you can also buy the turbo from MGP.

Else you can buy the turbo from Turbo Energy Limited, they make 1.3MJD turbo for both Fiat and Maruti application. The VGT turbo is expensive, so instead of buying a new turbo you can get it refurbished using a new CHRA and it will be as good.

Last edited by Sankar : 19th November 2015 at 14:20.
Sankar is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2015, 10:28   #75
BHPian
 
srivatsahg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 128
Thanked: 130 Times
Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto - Diesel engine stalled on the highway

Good Morning BHPians

Update post my visit to United Motors,

I stood next to the mechanic while he slowly disassembled the engine. Believe me it was indeed heartbreaking and interesting at the same time to see the heart of your car. He showed me how the crankshaft bearing had worn out. Possible reason could have been
  1. excessive heat (if the oil did not provide sufficient cooling)
  2. Dirt or debris in the oil which might have scratched the bearings and inturn scraping engine parts they were in contact with.

No issues found in the following components
  1. Fuel Injection pump
  2. Injection valves (as told by FIAT A.S.S)
  3. Timing chains and aux belts
  4. Turbocharger
  5. Piston and Piston rings

The mechanic told that this will need some lathe work and in most probability many new parts which he'll list it for me to purchase. Unfortunately Sunday was an holiday for the workshop. And due to my work today I couldn't be there. I'll be going there tomorrow morning to keep a tab on the progress.
srivatsahg is offline   (7) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grande Punto Facelift: From baby Maserati to Punto Evo EDIT: Punto 'My Life' on pg.7 sushanthr77 The International Automotive Scene 167 25th November 2011 12:02
Engine stalling at low speeds in my Fiat Grande Punto 1.2 E motor spirit Technical Stuff 20 7th February 2011 19:43
Swift VDI+ABS or Fiat Punto MJD or New Fabia 1.2 Diesel. Edit- Booked Fiat Punto MJD magnanimousdude Hatchbacks 59 27th October 2010 13:18
Fiat Grande Punto and the new Fiat Sedan; Tata-Fiat JV jkdas The Indian Car Scene 37 4th March 2009 17:01


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 01:01.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks