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Old 19th December 2015, 08:16   #16
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

GTO I totally agree with this. Few days ago my uncle was suggesting me to sell our 3.5 year old new Swift ZDi and get baleno instead, as synchroniser rings of the swift gave up, currently odometer is at 74,000 kms. Apart from this car is absolutely tight, still manages to put smile on our faces. I am not in favour of selling our Swift, instead got synchroniser rings along with that clutch plates were replaced, got new tyres and battery as well. Spent approx 37K for above mentioned jobs, so now car is set for another 60-70k odd kms instead of spending 4-5 lacs for Baleno.
IMO, it's more pleasurable to see your car doing high mileage and being trouble free over the years, than buying a new car. For example, it just makes me happy to read long-term ownership reviews of BHPians, who use there rides clocking 1-2 lacs kms happily, especially of Japanese cars. It's like a emotional attachment of man and his machine.
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Old 19th December 2015, 08:26   #17
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

Such a good read!

That replacing cars because repairs have gotten expensive is such an irrational thing to do *on the face of it*.

I think many people fall for it because the perception of continuously spending ~50k sounds much worse than say, spending 5 lakhs up front. Ideally, it should be the other way round!

Time value of money, anyone?

I know enough people who also have the following logic: new car means no initial niggles and a warranty to take care of any unusual repairs.

That coupled with that inner desire to change cars makes the decision even easier!
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Old 19th December 2015, 08:36   #18
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

Another reason could be while you need to spend 50K to maintain it, it's resale value might fall by over a lakh in the year. And that is the consideration most make when it comes to selling. Car. Until and unless it's a n extremely reliable machine (a jap brand) it should be sold within 4-5 years. Completely my personal opinion.

Having said that, I kept my Palio bought in 2003 till 2015 clocking close to 2.5 lakh Kms before gifting it away to a family friend, I believe it is still doing its duty wonderfully well somewhere in Gujarat.

I sold the skoda (bought 2nd hand in 2011 and ran 50k Kms from 35 to 85k Kms)primarily because of its auto box woes, lack of knowledge in the local market to rebuild transmissions and my wife's refusal to use the car because it is too big for city run. Now on the look out for. New automatic - contemplating across the range from wagon r to the new ford Figo.

I still use the reliable Innova (bought in 2010 with 30k Kms on the odo) and now standing at 140k Kms. I love to maintain my cars and one would be hard pressed to guess its age and mileage. While a part of me wants to keep the Innova till the next 200k Kms, the lack of safety features is the only thing that is compelling me to consider selling it.(its a GX 7 seater)

Again the ever-changing technology and the upgrades that you get in safety could be one reason why you might need to think of replacing your car. Nevertheless, if you don't compromise on timely maintenance and keep it spic and span - not only will you car serve you tireless till you use it, it will also fetch a decent resale value as and when you sell it.

Last edited by an_and : 19th December 2015 at 08:47.
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Old 19th December 2015, 08:37   #19
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

Nice thread and I agree fully. Based on financial rationals it just doesn’t make sense to start looking for a new car just because you are facing some repair cost.

But then again, buying cars isn’t necessarily a very rational proces to start with, although most of us will make up a lot of (financial) rationals along the way. (repair, fuel efficiency etc. etc). Nothing wrong in saying, I just fancy a new car and I’m lucky enough to be able to afford one. Buying a new car is nice!!

Those of you who have read some of my posts will know I will take buying cars a step further. Basically, I never buy new cars (unless its a company car), I always buy second hand and I would be very happy to pick up GTOs 7-10 year old cars, with 150-200K kilometers on the clock.

I would like to bring in a sort of related aspect. If you for whatever reason, sell your cars after 4-5 years and less then 100K on the clock you might want to relook what you do in terms of maintenance. I’m not talking about safety related items, e.g. tires, brakes. But for instance there is always a lot of debate about lub oil. But if you are going to sell your car at 100K, you might as well put the cheapest stuff in that complies with the spec in your engine. Why bother with synthetic if your engine could run on semi, or even regular if you will only keep the car for less then 100K kilometers?

However, when you do decide to run/keep your car well over 150K maintenance becomes much more relevant. Otherwise you are just maintaining your car for guys like me, who absolutely love the oil-guru guys who keep buying all these expensive oils. It will ensure I can drive your car for another 100-150K easily after you sell at 100K.

But then again, if you like cars, you are very likely to spend money on them with or without rational. Probably, if I take myself, very often without any rational, or actually pretty irrational reasons.

Where I might need the occasional rational reason to buy a car, or an expensive modification, part or tool is, when I need to convince my wife this is the smart thing to do.

E.g.
Of course I need to buy this OBD analyser dear, think of all the money I will be saving in repair bills.
Of course dear, I need to replace the regular air filter which cost only Euro 4, for a K&N race filter at Euro 150. It will give us much better fuel efficiency!
I know I have four cars already dear. But the children would love this one when they come to visit. And this one would be much safer for them to use too! (Wives are suckers for safety features!)

Jeroen
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Old 19th December 2015, 09:23   #20
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

To negate niggles and small repairs get extended warranty. It removes the factor of financial uncertainty. Also get comprehensive insurance to cover unforeseen events. The only issue remaining with aging is more trips to the workshop.
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Old 19th December 2015, 09:38   #21
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

Me and my wife are in the beginning stages of buying a new car to replace our 70k run 2010 Swift VDi,however this thread has put me in a dilemma.
The reasons why we are looking for a change-
1-Safety-since the existing neither has ABS nor airbags.
2-Harsh Ride- Need something which can take up bad roads.
3-Rattling,though comparatively less.
4-Rear leg room-The swift really lacks rear leg room.
5-We have decided to use the car for outstation trips (including trips to our native Kerala) rather than travelling by air or train.
Otherwise,the car is a hoot to drive with no major hassles.Can the above five points be considered valid for an upgrade?
PS-Cars in the radar -
1-SCross 1.6 - Definitely a good mile muncher (1.6 engine and 6 speed gearbox).
2-Punto 90Hp - Strong body with good handling.
3- Figo D - 6 airbags plus a good diesel engine for the highway runs.
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Old 19th December 2015, 09:42   #22
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

We're sitting on the fence.
The scenario:
  • 2007 Innova 2.5 V with 63 k on the odo. (Hardly used by Innova standards)
  • BS3 diesel engine. Will re registration be a problem?
  • Although an automatic isn't exactly a necessity, the City is placed at INR 12 lakh OTR for SV variant
  • Innova would go for 7.5 lakhs
  • Around 5 lakhs will give us a new car
  • We don't particularly need the 7 seats. For those occasion twice/thrice a year, we could use 2 cars in the city or hire a taxi
  • Innova has a new clutch around 10k kms back, new tyres and the car is essentially stock

Somehow it's difficult to let the car go. Only if the need for a automatic grows, we're looking to switch.

How much is this worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dean5545 View Post
Some went on and bought another Innova which was exactly the same as their previous car!
That's stupidity. Innova is a workhorse, can easily do 4 lakh kms without any problems. And why would they buy the same car at a much higher price?

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 19th December 2015 at 09:44.
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Old 19th December 2015, 09:49   #23
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

Thanks everyone, here is my share:-

I have a Mitsubishi Lancer GLXi, which I bought in 2002. It was exclusively driven by me and my family members till Dec 2012, when I bought a Passat. We also bought a Polo in May 2012, which my wife and daughters drive.

Post Dec 2012, we allowed our driver to drive the Lancer. In a decade of my driving the car, I carried out regular service and apart from one suspension overhaul, two sets of tyres and wiper blade changes, the car ran trouble free.

In these 3 years that the driver has driven the car, I have changed the AC Evaporator coil, AC Fan/Motor and the electric fuel pump in the fuel tank.

At times, I wish to replace the car, but on the other hand when I see the low cost of ownership of this car I think to myself why should I replace this car? True, the Lancer does not have the basic safety features like airbags & ABS but she drives beautifully. Though parts are a little difficult to get - one can manage.

When we replace the Lancer we will definitely look for an Automatic sedan only.
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Old 19th December 2015, 10:50   #24
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

We had a 2003 ZenD, which we sold in 2013. 10 yrs, more than 1.5L kms. Even then, we wouldn't have sold it if not for the fact that MASS was trying to avoid that particular engine, and we started having issues with it. When water got in, and bent 2 conrods, some major work was done. We spent nothing but basic service & maintenance costs for nearly 7 years, with repairs coming up only after that. Our 10th year was quite expensive. Hardly 30~40k in 5 years, another 50k in 3 years, and 55~60k in just the last 2 years.

The real headache was that the car was regularly visiting the mechanic.

We then bought an Etios Liva GD SP. Why?
1. Safety features
2. MUCH more comfortable (parents entering the retirement stage)
3. Supremely reliable T-badge
4. Cost. Yes, cost - in terms of VFM.

The plan for the Liva is 7 years.
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Old 19th December 2015, 12:18   #25
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

I feel that a few critical points have been missed in the opening post:

1. IMHO, people start thinking of buying a new car not because of the cost of repairs alone. I feel it is more because of the frustration built up because of the the time wasted to attend to frquent niggles and the perceived lack of reliability because of these niggles. As a person progresses in life, his time becomes more and more precious. We would like to invest our time with our family or in our professional life, rather that wasting it on attending to reapirs of a means of transport.

2. With the traffic conditions becoming worse day by day, the convenience of an automatic transmission is hard to overlook. Even though I have a perfectly fine 7 year old MT car which has run only 35k kms, I am really tempted to switch to an AT, which will solve 2 purposes:
a) It will reduce the stress of my daily commute
b) It will be useful for my wife too, who finds MT too hard to learn

3. With the road infrastructure deteriorating every day, arises the need for a more comfortable and abuse friendly vehicle even for city commutes. A sub 4 metre crossover or SUV could be an unavoidable upgrade for existing hatchback owners.

4. The resale value of the car falls drastically once it reaches certain milestones, like if it exceeds 10 years of ownership or the Odo exceeds 50k kms (for petrol cars). If one sells off the vehicle before such milestones, one may get better resale value rather that using the car for few more years and then selling it for peanuts.

Rohan
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Old 19th December 2015, 12:28   #26
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

I am still a bit confused about what to do with my old Corolla.

It is an end-2004 model that has run 100,970 kms so far. Overall in good shape (no rust, minor scratches on the bumper, no dents, perfectly running engine, noisy suspension, worn-out tyres).

If I sell it, I will get a maximum of 2.5 - 2.7 Lacs. On the other hand, I will need to replace the tyres (which may be a bit expensive). It also needs some suspension work.

For the suspension work, I got the car checked up at the authorized Toyota dealer (who quoted around Rs.40,000 to set the suspension right). They want to replace tie-rods, bushes, etc. I am not sure are all these parts actually worn out or not. I haven't taken a quote from my trusted local workshop yet (I get all my body work done here and trust these chaps).

I know that the Toyota dealer will go ahead and replace everything rather than only the worn out part. This will obviously be very expensive.

Other than a noisy suspension, the car runs brilliantly. However, I can't decide if it is worth pouring more money into the car. If I sell, it will be replaced with a City or another Corolla.

So, should I sell or repair? Help please?
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Old 19th December 2015, 12:42   #27
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

Nice thought provoking thread GTO.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rakesh_r View Post
Me and my wife are in the beginning stages of buying a new car to replace our 70k run 2010 Swift VDi,however this thread has put me in a dilemma.
The reasons why we are looking for a change-
1-Safety-since the existing neither has ABS nor airbags.
2-Harsh Ride- Need something which can take up bad roads.
3-Rattling,though comparatively less.
4-Rear leg room-The swift really lacks rear leg room.
5-We have decided to use the car for outstation trips (including trips to our native Kerala) rather than travelling by air or train.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
I feel that a few critical points have been missed in the opening post:

2. With the traffic conditions becoming worse day by day, the convenience of an automatic transmission is hard to overlook. Even though I have a perfectly fine 7 year old MT car which has run only 35k kms, I am really tempted to switch to an AT, which will solve 2 purposes:

3. With the road infrastructure deteriorating every day, arises the need for a more comfortable and abuse friendly vehicle even for city commutes. A sub 4 metre crossover or SUV could be an unavoidable upgrade for existing hatchback owners.

Rohan
We maybe slightly missing the point here. The key point of the thread is that you don't really need to consider an upgrade just due to maintenance and repair costs. Quoting a key point from GTO below- If the car no longer meets your needs, then you need to change it. It may be the safety features, rear space, boot space, ride quality, need for Automatic, or any other reason.

As you mentioned, there is a value for the time spent also, that also needs to be factored in. If you are spending too much time running behind repairs, then it maps to the point that the car is inherently unreliable. So probably time to change.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

Replace your car IF

• It no longer meets your needs (e.g. safety features, need for a 3rd row of seats, larger boot).


Related Threads:

1. Keep or Sell (ARTICLE: YOUR 5 year old car : Keep, Upgrade or Swap?)
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Old 19th December 2015, 12:58   #28
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Thumbs up Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

This thread really changed my mind, to retain my Optra Magnum. Mine is 2009 model magnum LT diesel.
It has run 55,xxxkms and am facing the below issues and repairs:

1) Defective booster/brake-master cylinder, only front brakes seem like they're working and brake force distribution is not done properly.

2) Had remapped it when the odo read 26000kms. No issues due to remap, instead feels more refined like a petrol (inside cabin) but, during remap, I did other mods like suspension and engine guard. These mods turned out bad, engine guard shakes (bent too) and have tied it with cable-ties. Suspension has a lot of noise from day one of mod.

3) headlight throw is not great even with 90/100 kit. manageable with fog lights along with it.

4) rear bumper needs replacement due to some accident. (a hole in bumper and impact fibre beam is also broken inside.)

5) reversing light doesn't work and reverse parking sensor is also not powered due to it. (small issue can be corrected in wiring)

6) upcoming 60k service which needs major replacements like timing chain.

Things which made me retain the car:
1) This thread.
2) comfort, space, safety and features it offers.
3) power and independent suspension.
4) resale value.
5) no car which matches it, even after adding 5 lacs along with it's resale value.
Thanks for the thread
some pictures of my maggy
Attached Thumbnails
Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!-img20151208wa0000.jpg  

Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!-img20151208wa0003.jpg  

Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!-img20151208wa0004.jpg  

Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!-img20151208wa0006.jpg  


Last edited by GTO : 22nd December 2015 at 09:58. Reason: Language
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Old 19th December 2015, 17:18   #29
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

Dear GTO,

Wow!
Double Wow!!

You have put such an important point soooo precisely! I am impressed.

I agree with everything you have said.

A few quick references:

I had a Maruti OmniE (eight seater) for almost 13 years with around 80k under the belt. No issues. Sold it to a friend - who runs a school bus service. I always found the service cost and running cost less than any replacement!

The next car was a City ZX VTEC which I sold after 9 years. This had 130 k under its belt. I could have kept it for 6 more years happily - it had zilch issues! But then I had decided to get an automatic! So,... fait accompli!

Now I still have a 5 year old WagonR. My wife uses it and just loves it! After driving the new Jazz CVT she is also 'thinking' of replacing it. Again, we are thinking of this without considering that the running cost is almost zero!

AND finally, my Jazz is just a couple of months old! It will most probably stay with us for quite a few years to come!

Oh - by the way - I have done a lot of spreadsheet based calculations for estimating running costs of multiple automatic cars. It is quite an eye opener!

Once more - rated 5 stars!

Girish Mahajan
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Old 19th December 2015, 17:36   #30
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Default Re: Want to sell your car because of repairs? Think again!

Leaving the logics of selling a car aside, there is one more reason why people sell them. (I am not including those cases where one changes car every 3 years when the lease gets over).

D-Bhpian, @condor has a very nice way of putting it. People suffer from what is called "ownership fatigue"! So true.

One has lived with the car long enough where near >75% (figurative) of purchase has been recovered either by running kms or keeping it for years. Now even though the car is good for some more, but so does the human heart wants something more! (A true "dil maange more" moment!). Of course there is no logic, which this can be associated to. But most cases its still OK simply because one used the car fair bit and is not replacing it the way we replace cell phones.
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