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Old 17th March 2016, 20:25   #31
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

My view since owning 1st gen Vento TDi March 2011 manufactured.

It's a known fact that the injectors that were manufactured before 15 June 2012 have a probability to fail. VW should have pro-actively recalled and fixed them. But since cost of recalling is much higher than replacing faulty ones, they never did it.

In my car 2 injectors failed during return journey to Mumbai from Hyderabad; 100 kms before Pune. Car was driven and handed over to B.U.Bhandari, Pune who did a absolutely shoddy work at it.

You can read more about it here.

Had to get it fixed at AutoBahn, Navi Mumbai workshop who did a great job of fixing car up and never fail to deliver.

Later 2 injector went kaput within city. So they were an easy fix. All was done under Extended Warranty. It's absolutely necessary that you purchase it, no matter which car you own. Saves you lot of costs.

Later too I faced issue when bolt holding injectors broke where car had to be flat bed from Ahmednagar to AutoBahn, Navi Mumbai. Having RSA is always better. But I didn't have it and costed me Rs. 20,000 as VW Ahmednagar was incompetent at fixing the issue. Two new bolts and fuel solenoid valve replaced and car has been performing well.

No issues whatsoever.

EGR issue too is present in earlier gen Vento. Its replacement is expensive if you are out of warranty. To counter it, you can have EGR disabled through small remap and gives you a small boost of 10 HP since engine is now fed clean air. Note: Impact on emission, I do not have an idea.

Million dollar question, will I buy a German car in future? YES. They have spoiled me with the driving dynamics, build quality and performance. 1.6 TDi still puts a smile on the face.

Current generation Volkswagen products including Polo TDi, TSi, Vento MPi, TSi, TDi including DSG and Jetta TDi have all the issues ironed out. I don't see any reason why one shouldn't purchase them.

No other car manufacturer can match their overall package e.g. Polo GT TSi, Vento TDi DSG and Jetta TDi DSG. These are few of epitome of performance and quality.

Coming to Workshops, they are known to inflate bill by adding unnecessary add ons like AC disinfection, car detailing, etc. You need to say a strict NO to them. On average cost of servicing Polo, Vento comes around Rs. 10,000 for 1yr/15,000 Kms.

More information on following thread (VW Polo - Maintenance and Service cost and dos/don'ts).

It's a hard hitting fact, that in today's time every workshop is out there to make your wallet lighter by doing unnecessary and not required stuff. You have to be PROACTIVE. Got to know what's needed and what's not. You have Team-BHP platform to ask for it before you give your car for service.

Lastly whenever a part replacement is asked for, always self inspect and get a second opinion from a mechanic in same workshop or from other authorized workshop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
A bright red Polo GT TDi was in my radar list, I was quietly waiting for them to knock off the silly beige interiors and put black interiors, no way now, thank you very much.
Behram Dhabhar
Sir, go in for it and you won't be disappointed. All the gremlins of 1st gen Polo/Vento have been fixed. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't go for Best Hot Hatch in India. Purchase extended warranty, 2+2 yr RSA and go for Zero dep insurance. You are all secured on every front from any issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csnanjappa View Post
Could anyone throw any light on the newer models(after 2014) and their reliability , i am in market for diesel automatic and this news does not help me .
As stated above, go in for TDi DSG and you won't be disappointed. Likewise purchase extended warranty, 2+2 yr RSA and go for Zero dep insurance. You are all secured on every front from any issues.
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Old 17th March 2016, 20:59   #32
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
A perfect example for not jumping the gun and buying a german/european car at the very launch itself. I think its safe to say its best to buy german cars after a face lift or two or at the end of its cycle where they finally get the hang of all the problems and niggles and fixes them.This is the reason why I am skeptical of the new superb. There are number of examples in our own market.
Spot on and that makes me believe that Tata and VW quality for first batch of vehicles is the same. Their R&D is handled by the customers? The difference is that VWs command a premium over Tatas although their reliability and service quality levels must be the same. Tatas however have a very very liberal warranty policy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
honestly I'm not sure what the big deal is.
I spent around as much for my humble indica in the first 4 or 5 years.

Even now it costs about 40K a year in parts and service. for a car several segments above, and considered high maintenence, this looks very reasonable.

But the breakdowns sour the experience a bit - I have never had a breakdown as I've been proactive with most replacements.
Tell me you are sarcastic there buddy. If I were you, I'd cut my losses than keep driving a lemon. Breakdowns or not, a 40k yearly spend on an Indica's maintenance defeats the purpose of having an Indica in the first place. Have you tried to figure out what kind of returns you'll get when you sell the car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Actually, considering the amount of effort to make diesels perform like a petrol - turbo's, EGR, DPG, high pressure injectors/ ignitions, one must consider when to sell out when the going is good!
Perhaps we'll end up with a S-Cross 1.6 soon enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
I see it as just another VW bashing thread as I didn't see anything which I haven't seen previously. No offense to anyone.

I can also say quite confidently that its not going to change even after 100 years as this is their main business model like all premium and luxury brands have, for e.g. Bose, Samsung, etc.
If an objective discussion makes you believe that this is a bashing thread then perhaps your perception of the problem is incorrect. I've provided all details backed by solid proofs. Please tell me which part of the opening post amounts to bashing? The intention of this thread is to create a general awareness for bhpians not limited to those that currently own a 2010-2012 Vento TDI but also to potential buyers from the used car market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post

It's a known fact that the injectors that were manufactured before 15 June 2012 have a probability to fail. VW should have pro-actively recalled and fixed them. But since cost of recalling is much higher than replacing faulty ones, they never did it.
Bad strategy, don't you think?

Quote:
In my car 2 injectors failed during return journey to Mumbai from Hyderabad; 100 kms before Pune. Car was driven and handed over to B.U.Bhandari, Pune who did a absolutely shoddy work at it.
...
Later 2 injector went kaput within city. So they were an easy fix. All was done under Extended Warranty. It's absolutely necessary that you purchase it, no matter which car you own. Saves you lot of costs.
...
Later too I faced issue when bolt holding injectors broke where car had to be flat bed from Ahmednagar to AutoBahn, Navi Mumbai. Having RSA is always better. But I didn't have it and costed me Rs. 20,000 as VW Ahmednagar was incompetent at fixing the issue. Two new bolts and fuel solenoid valve replaced and car has been performing well.
Wow! This in itself explains the reliability of VWs motors and the support offered to rectify the problems at hand.

Quote:
EGR issue too is present in earlier gen Vento. Its replacement is expensive if you are out of warranty. To counter it, you can have EGR disabled through small remap and gives you a small boost of 10 HP since engine is now fed clean air. Note: Impact on emission, I do not have an idea.
Please tell me more about the remap. Don't mind getting it done.

Quote:
Million dollar question, will I buy a German car in future? YES. They have spoiled me with the driving dynamics, build quality and performance. 1.6 TDi still puts a smile on the face.
I'd prefer to weigh my options very objectively. The driving dynamics and performance of a Linea T-Jet would beat the Vento hands down, but, will I buy a T-Jet ever? The S-Cross although slightly over priced beats the Vento in terms of performance and offers more space and comfort at higher reliability levels backed by Maruti's country wide service network. Perhaps that's what we'll get next.

Quote:
Current generation Volkswagen products including Polo TDi, TSi, Vento MPi, TSi, TDi including DSG and Jetta TDi have all the issues ironed out. I don't see any reason why one shouldn't purchase them.
I think we are jumping the gun and making assumptions in saying all DSG issues are resolved. I'd go with Ajmat's take on the reliability of small VW motors which clearly align to the reality. DSG failures have happened even on the Vento. There's a thread on the forum citing his detailed experience.

Quote:
Coming to Workshops, they are known to inflate bill by adding unnecessary add ons like AC disinfection, car detailing, etc. You need to say a strict NO to them. On average cost of servicing Polo, Vento comes around Rs. 10,000 for 1yr/15,000 Kms.

Quote:
OT It's a hard hitting fact, that in today's time every workshop is out there to make your wallet lighter by doing unnecessary and not required stuff. You have to be PROACTIVE. Got to know what's needed and what's not. You have Team-BHP platform to ask for it before you give your car for service.
So, say a housewife or a retired senior citizen who usually has no access to Team-bhp or inclination to be on a public forum to address her car's maintenance deserves to be ripped off by dealerships due to their lack of automotive knowledge?
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Old 17th March 2016, 21:04   #33
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

In other news, we got an estimate from the VW dealer with a note:

Name:  Vento_Estimate.jpg
Views: 1979
Size:  129.4 KB

Quote:
From: <crm@vw-bubhandari.co.in>
Date: 17 March 2016 at 17:45:05 IST
To: <********@gmail.com>
Cc: <cre@vw-bubhandari.co.in>
Subject: Estimate for *******


Dear Mr. . ________
Greetings from Volkswagen Pune West!
At the outset we sincerely regret the inconvenience caused to you.
This is with reference to your Concern raised at Volkswagen regarding your Vento bearing Registration no **********. As per Your discussion with our SA ( Nilesh Patil ) , who has informed You about the approval part for the job to be done on Your vehicle . As the vehicle is out of warranty we cannot help You on the said case but as a goodwill gesture we will offer You with good discount on the parts & labor .
So request You to provide us with an approval to proceed with the work for which we are attaching the estimate including the service estimate too.
We assure You that Your vehicle would be attended as per VW standards & guideline .
Please do not have any apprehensions about product or services.

In Future please feel free to contact the undersigned for any assistance.



Assuring you of our best services.



Thanks & Regards

Avinash Patil
Customer Care Manager
After Sales
Volkswagen Pune West

Last edited by moralfibre : 17th March 2016 at 21:06.
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Old 17th March 2016, 21:39   #34
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

They just couldn't resist throwing in a 'cheap' windshield fluid rip-off amidst your heavy estimate hoping you won't notice, could they?

Kidding aside, some of the item descriptions are vague. What's the item 'FILTER ELEMENT WITH GASKET' costing INR 344 (could be engine oil filter but unclear from descrip.), given they've listed each filter separately afterwards? They've also quoted you for THREE generic gaskets, what are those? Don't most parts needing a sealing gasket have one in the part kit itself?

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 17th March 2016 at 21:46.
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Old 17th March 2016, 21:57   #35
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Bad strategy, don't you think?
Yes it is from customer standpoint of view. From company side, they did save quite a few lacs but lost quite a few customers and prospective buyers. Rules in India are too lenient, otherwise why wouldn't we get 10 year warranty on DSG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Wow! This in itself explains the reliability of VWs motors and the support offered to rectify the problems at hand.
Yes. Some of the workshops don't have the requisite expertise and tools to deal with things other than a normal service. If I be living in a Tier 2 or 3 city, I did rethink to purchase about VW. After sales is very critical no matter how much you love the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Please tell me more about the remap. Don't mind getting it done.
Kindly contact Abhishek of Kiirus and he shall guide you through. You can give my reference, Rohaan. Contact number: 9594060920. Website. They are based out of Mumbai, none the less they will do the necessary.

To give more info about disabling EGR. When you get a Proper Remap, say Vento 1.6 TDi with figures at 130 HP 320 Nm, you have the option to disable the EGR. It prevents the exhaust gas to be sent back to engine and it receives fresh air for combustion. This leads to a gain of 10 HP.

Given the failures of EGR due to 2 main reasons, poor fuel quality and even air. So as a measure, many people started getting their EGR disabled. Last time I checked price charged for same was Rs. 5000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
I'd prefer to weigh my options very objectively. The driving dynamics and performance of a Linea T-Jet would beat the Vento hands down, but, will I buy a T-Jet ever? The S-Cross although slightly over priced beats the Vento in terms of performance and offers more space and comfort at higher reliability levels backed by Maruti's country wide service network. Perhaps that's what we'll get next.
Yeah T-Jet is best handling car out there, but my next car has to have a AT. So the best option out there are DSG either TSi or TDi.

Only problem I have with Maruti is build quality and structural rigidity. They prove themselves on Indian NCAP testing, I wouldn't mind purchasing it. Until them its either VAG Group, Ford or Fiat for me.

S-Cross beating in performance. Impossible. That torque is 320 Nm at 1750 rpm. I would rather like a torque spread across a wider rpm like Vento TDi 250 Nm at 1500-2500 rpm. Also driving dynamics, chassis, brakes, etc play a crucial role in deciding. S-Cross may have the numbers but Vento TDi will easily be more chuck-able around a twisting corner than a S-Cross.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
I think we are jumping the gun and making assumptions in saying all DSG issues are resolved. I'd go with Ajmat's take on the reliability of small VW motors which clearly align to the reality. DSG failures have happened even on the Vento. There's a thread on the forum citing his detailed experience.
DSG 7 Speed DQ200 is known to have gremlins but ever since gearbox oil being replaced from synthetic to mineral oil, has made it more reliable. People have experienced jerks while moving from D2 to D3 vice versa, solution for it is to have gearbox software updated to latest one.

I did still take my chances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
So, say a housewife or a retired senior citizen who usually has no access to Team-bhp or inclination to be on a public forum to address her car's maintenance deserves to be ripped off by dealerships due to their lack of automotive knowledge?
That's the bitter truth. Every company is out there to rip you off, in this ear of capitalism. Everyone has got their quotas to meet. So its advisable to research and be proactive else you did be losing your hard earned money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
In other news, we got an estimate from the VW dealer with a note:

Attachment 1486851
Send a mail to VW customer care with some strong worded and a link to this thread. Tell them, VW knew issues with 1st Gen Vento EGR and kindly have it replaced on goodwill (100%).

Email: customer.care@volkswagen.co.in
Web Link to file complaint: LINK

If nothing else works out, get the EGR disabled and save yourself Rs. 60,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
They just couldn't resist throwing in a 'cheap' windshield fluid rip-off amidst your heavy estimate hoping you won't notice, could they?
See that's how they rip off by adding unnecessary stuff. Also that wind shield fluid is no way cheap stuff. It's designed to work under negative atmospheric temperature by dissolving ice on wind shield. Though we don't need such product but it does a great job and smells great.
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Old 17th March 2016, 22:00   #36
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Just couldn't control myself laughing at the following assurance from VW
Quote:
We assure You that Your vehicle would be attended as per VW standards & guideline
That's the crux of the entire problem in the first place, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
They just couldn't resist throwing in a 'cheap' windshield fluid rip-off amidst your heavy estimate hoping you won't notice, could they?
That cheap windshield fluid is not part of the total estimate. This is probably the discount the VW "customer care manager" was referring to, along with Lock cylinder & Brake fluid.

Last edited by vinit.merchant : 17th March 2016 at 22:04.
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Old 17th March 2016, 22:30   #37
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
To give more info about disabling EGR. When you get a Proper Remap, say Vento 1.6 TDi with figures at 130 HP 320 Nm, you have the option to disable the EGR. It prevents the exhaust gas to be sent back to engine and it receives fresh air for combustion. This leads to a gain of 10 HP.
Sorry to butt in, but disabling EGR leading to peak power gains is utter nonsense.

Fact: EGR duty cycle is 0% at full throttle, peak power runs.

In plain english, no exhaust gases are recirculated back under full throttle conditions. Feel free to verify this with OBD2 readers.Other benefits like lesser carbon deposits etc are debatable, but any tuner that tells you that you gain power with an EGR delete is just talking out of the parts of their body that don't see much sunshine.
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Old 17th March 2016, 22:47   #38
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Giving my views on the episode, my first german car is a 2012 Vento TDi and the other is a 2015 320D which i recently bought. Vento being a german car and a vag product at that, does suffer from some major issues like injector failures, fuel pumps, egr failures, substandard discs that get warped etc.

1. Faced my first issue at 11k when the brakes started juddering, VW did not give warranty as they provide a segment lowest warranty of 6 month/10000 kms on brakes and suspension. Many people have faced it but no recall by the brand.

2. I have completed 50k on my Vento now and have got all the struts replaced as 2 started leaking at 36k kms (the struts used by VW India in later models are cheaper Gabriel made in India shocks), see the poor finishing on the gabriel shocks and you would realise why they are so cheap. Our Linea in contrast completed 62k kms when we sold her and only front link rods were changed. VW refused warranty as warranty on suspension is 6 month/10000 kms, they know what kind of parts they have used.

3. injectors failed at 38k, i did not have a breakdown but the vag com scan showed that the injectors were failing, changed under extended warranty and car returned the same day. Requested them to change other 2 since they could fail any time but VW refused my request.

4. The engine mounts also gave away within 35k kms but replacement was cheap at 2000 since they use rubber mounts in this car, no clue as to why rubber mounts are used on such a noisy motor.

Yes, i have faced major reliability issues with the car but i only had to pay for suspension parts and mounts. The service expenses are at par with others, brands like Ford, Maruti, Hyundai charge 5-6k every 10,000 kms while VW charges 9-10k every 15000 kms.

I also do not agree with your statement that broken down lock carriers are VW's fault. Its a low slung sedan with a front overhang and the owner needs to be careful about it. Honda also had severe ground clearance issues with their city but the company can not not be blamed if you bang the front end some where and tear up your engine sump. If the roads are pathetic where you travel to, getting a sedan is a bad idea. I have gone to treacherous places and the lock carrier is intact at 50k, our mod Gannu took his GT TDi to Leh and faced no such issue. A Duster can not take corners at 70-80 and you can not jump over speed breakers in a Vento like you would in Duster, different cars for different purpose.

Another area where VW sucks is their warranty claims. They are too stingy, time consuming warranty approvals and giving poor warranty coverage on brakes and suspension. You would not find one other brand giving a 10,000 km warranty on suspension.

Now the good part about this car, its build quality and it is impeccable, highway manners, very fuel efficient engine, blast to drive 1.6 TDi and VW's premium brand image. I have a Ecosport, Fiesta and regularly sit in a friend's Swift, Grand i10. The build quality of cars from Maruti, Hyundai, Ford are no match to VW. Some may rattle less, some may rattle more but a cheap 10 lakh rupee Vento still feels tight as a nut after 50k kms, there is no squeak or rattle and i have abused this car a lot.

Some have panels rattling, some have windows rattling, some make resonating sounds when you hit potholes and i get irritated with these things, for me it is a deal breaker if a damn panel rattles near my ear or the window starts rattling when you hit potholes. Vento/Polo atleast from 2011-2012 have impeccable build and this needs to be appreciated.

Out of warranty this car may cost a bomb but i have not yet faced anything major so far. VW seriously need to work on their warranty claims, warranty policies and issuing recalls when required rather than working on their dealers. Will i buy another VW - hell yes, was considering a small hatch and its the Polo TSi that fit the bill perfectly, could not find anything other worth mentioning when it comes to petrol AT hatches.
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Old 17th March 2016, 22:52   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
It prevents the exhaust gas to be sent back to engine and it receives fresh air for combustion. This leads to a gain of 10 HP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
Sorry to butt in, but disabling EGR leading to peak power gains is utter nonsense.

Fact: EGR duty cycle is 0% at full throttle, peak power runs.

In plain english, no exhaust gases are recirculated back under full throttle conditions.
You are right. Here is the screen shot from my OBD 2 reader on my Swift.

EGR solenoid duty cycle is at 0% when:

1. Under acceleration and
2. No accelerator input (coasting in gear).

Coasting in gear:
Name:  ForumRunner_20160317_225212.png
Views: 1740
Size:  55.5 KB

Under acceleration:
Name:  ForumRunner_20160317_225219.png
Views: 1742
Size:  56.5 KB

Last edited by a4anurag : 17th March 2016 at 22:54.
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Old 17th March 2016, 23:12   #40
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

This is the price to be paid for choosing a German car. I think the cars sold in India are inferior to what is sold in the rest of the world and not to mention the super expensive spare parts. I visited VW Hissar once with one of my friend who is a Polo owner for getting the radio antenna replaced due to some damages, met the SA for the same and we were stunned when he quoted Rs. 3500 .
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Old 17th March 2016, 23:28   #41
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Just found a link showing the amount of problems with Injectors and EGR guess we can summarise how chronic the problem is
http://www.complaintboard.in/complai...a-l165174.html
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Old 18th March 2016, 01:57   #42
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

This is sad! And completely unacceptable. The scenario remains the same no matter which part of the country you are in and which car you have got from the VW stable. One of my friend's polo started making weird motor noise which was found to be the AC blower. The sound was too prominent with the blower speed set above 1. The SA immediately without any second thought said that the entire blower and the assembly had to be replaced which was amounting to an unbelievable INR 28,000. We tried asking the SA to at least check the issue thoroughly so as to see whether it was caused by some foreign object stuck in to which the SA immediately disagreed and argued that they have checked it completely and the only solution is replacing the part.

Conclusion : We had a friend inside the service center itself who ended up solving the issue from outside the authorized service center for INR 3000. There was indeed some particles stuck in the blower like a leaf or paper which was removed.

In all, things like these aren't doing any good for VW. They don't seem to be bothered by the impact of their unacceptable service either.
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Old 18th March 2016, 07:38   #43
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_shimla View Post
I visited VW Hissar once with one of my friend who is a Polo owner for getting the radio antenna replaced due to some damages, met the SA for the same and we were stunned when he quoted Rs. 3500 .
True that. The logo set so prone to theft costs 3500, the little latch that secures the storage under the armrest costs 5000, the boot light costs another 5000 to replace. Hell a simple bumper replacement costs 17,000! I hadn't included these in my maintenance cost calculation earlier because I haven't done them (boot light and storage lock) or did it under insurance (the other two). Good point!
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Old 18th March 2016, 09:14   #44
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

I have had experiences of high service costs ( annual ones ) & generally service they do is not great. I would refrain from buying VW in future as they are not customer centric at all. Even when I gave feedback about bad service experience, they mentioned I will get call from dealer and that was it.
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Old 18th March 2016, 09:43   #45
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Quick question - DO Skoda Rapid folks face same issues? Have not seen anything from them
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