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Old 14th April 2016, 18:01   #91
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
What part of my ownership review did you feel implied that we didn't take care of the car? Shall I point you to countless international VW threads stating the exact same issues in the 1.6 TDI CR engines worldwide? Do they also fall in the same category who do not take care of the car?

Did I write YOU did not take care of the car?
That is a general quote and is applied to every car/machine & this quote is used "worldwide".

Also, I wrote my experience with my car and I did not face any issue. This will help the fellow members who are/were planning to buy Vento and they should know that every 1.6 TDi CR doesn't have issues & they are not unreliable. There are a lot of positive aspects of the car as well.

Last edited by mikon : 14th April 2016 at 18:04.
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Old 17th April 2016, 01:46   #92
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Been following the thread as I was one of the victims of EGR failure.

As their is discussion going on weather this issue happens due to poor maintenance I would like to share my experience.

All the services were done at 10k intervals with general checkup every 6 months which included cleaning the filters and topping up the fluids if needed.

I took special care during the break in period, always followed the idling rule and always used the best quality diesel but still had a EGR failure. The company gave an explanation that it can be due to excessive carbon deposit but EGR seemed clean with minor carbon. The value was a not working as smoothly as it should. Also I know 2 other cars with premature injector and EGR failure which were immaculately maintained.

Now I don't take Vento on long routes due to the fear of injector failure as the car gave symptoms of injector failures two times like shuddering but their was no warning light and the scan showed no issues.

Contrary to that one of my close friend who is a spirited driver skipped one service, got it done after 35k hasn't faced a single engine related issue even after 110k on the odo.

Coming back to the topic I think it can either be manufacturing/design defect or the engines are not optimized for our environment as their are lot of these happening. The SA told me that earlier Vento's had injector issues and their was some sort of silent recall where they would replace them when cars came for service. But still every time I visit a VW service center I always see 1-2 car with some sort of premature part failure..

We almost booked Jetta but dropped the plan after EGR failure, now waiting for new Accord to launch.I really want VW to address these quality as the cars they make have the best dynamics in their class and also mature looks.
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Old 19th April 2016, 14:03   #93
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

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Originally Posted by P242 View Post
I took special care during the break in period, always followed the idling rule and always used the best quality diesel but still had a EGR failure. The company gave an explanation that it can be due to excessive carbon deposit but EGR seemed clean with minor carbon. The value was a not working as smoothly as it should. Also I know 2 other cars with premature injector and EGR failure which were immaculately maintained.
I empathize with you P242. Did you have to pay for the EGR from your own pocket or was warranty honored? I got the EGR cleaned at a FNG and it has been working fine since then. Will wait for the next failure to occur after which we'll have it cleaned again.

Cost of cleaning: Rs. 1,300/-
Cost of replacement: Rs. 50,000/- (Approx)

Makes sense to clean it till eternity

There's a fine line between the maturity to accept a product fault v/s blaring guns at every one who cries foul. I guess we have enough bhpian stories that quantify reliability of early generation Ventos. Thanks for your feedback!
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Old 19th April 2016, 15:39   #94
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Did you have to pay for the EGR from your own pocket or was warranty honored?
They honored the warranty in my case but it took them 10 days to arrange a new EGR. As this happened in third year of ownership I highly recommenced every German car owner to buy extended warranty while taking delivery of your car. I opted for it in 20th month of ownership so it costed me a whopping 28k with RSA included instead of 13k if I had bought it the same day I purchased the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Cost of replacement: Rs. 50,000/- (Approx)
Yes roughly it comes to this amount. I am attaching a part of the bill with EGR and related parts cost (Excluding labor) for future reference for members.

A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)-egr.png
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Old 7th July 2016, 10:29   #95
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

My Vento TDI (2011) is out of extended warranty and has completed 5th service (72K kms) and in the 5 year of ownership.
Has anyone cleaned the Vento TDI 2011 EGR in Bangalore? If so, please do provide the details of FNG where it can be done. I have not seen any problem with my EGR, thinking of doing it proactively as suggested by morafibre.
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Old 4th August 2016, 12:42   #96
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

My sisters polo(2011, diesel) has clocked around 80000 kms. Suddenly last week a coil like symbol stated flashing in the console. Sent car to the showroom and the service people are recomending EGR replacement and costs ₹48000.
I am not sure if this a VW issue. Can I get the egr cleaned instead of replacing. Or can Volkswagen replace it as good will.
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Old 4th August 2016, 12:46   #97
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

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Originally Posted by ramb View Post
My sisters polo(2011, diesel) has clocked around 80000 kms. Suddenly last week a coil like symbol stated flashing in the console. Sent car to the showroom and the service people are recomending EGR replacement and costs ₹48000.
I am not sure if this a VW issue. Can I get the egr cleaned instead of replacing. Or can Volkswagen replace it as good will.
Usually, a coil like indication on the cluster actually indicates issues with the glow plug or its module. EGR related issues trigger the MIL lamp ( Engine malfunction indicator lamp ) so wiser to take a second opinion with a competent FNG before proceeding.
Can other VW owners correct me if I am wrong?
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Old 4th August 2016, 14:40   #98
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

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Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
Usually, a coil like indication on the cluster actually indicates issues with the glow plug or its module. EGR related issues trigger the MIL lamp ( Engine malfunction indicator lamp ) so wiser to take a second opinion with a competent FNG before proceeding.
Can other VW owners correct me if I am wrong?
Thanks for the information Arvind. I am getting another indicator(engine emission check). I think this is what you are referring to as MIL.
For the EGR isue, is volkswagen at fault or is it due to wear and tear
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Old 8th August 2016, 16:38   #99
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Spoke with Volkswagen and the service centre. Since the car is 6 years old, the company is not accepting free of cost replacement of the EGR. They are wilking to cut down on the labour cost. Require help in whether i can go ahead and pay for the EGR or is there a design issue of EGR from volkswagen side so that they are responsible for this problem
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Old 8th August 2016, 17:21   #100
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You aren't required to replace the egr. You can get it cleaned from outside, a workshop or a fng. It should cost around Rs 1500-2000 if I am not wrong.
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Old 11th August 2016, 08:09   #101
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

We set out for a family trip this morning with my Swift and my brother's Vento. The car had been behaving itself so far but not for long. Just before Satara, the coil light began flashing and the car lost all power. Pulled over and decided to call the nearest service station to meet an out of service phone number.

Thereafter we let the car cool down, moved all stuff to the reliable Maruti Swift. Decided to let the Swift move on.

This one is certainly another injector failure because an EGR failure will let you continue driving in limp mode. Tried to restart after the engine cooled down and thankfully it started back up. Decided to drop the car back and it will unfortunately have to be sold. It's time to cut our losses and move on.

As it is obvious from various posts on this thread, the problem is surely widespread and affecting multiple owners abruptly in their short or long term ownership experience. The unfortunate part is a company like VW refuses to acknowledge problems with their own product.

I still lust for a Jetta but experiences like these leave a void that makes me think many times over.
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Old 11th August 2016, 09:50   #102
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
We set out for a family trip this morning with my Swift and my brother's Vento. The car had been behaving itself so far but not for long. Just before Satara, the coil light began flashing and the car lost all power. Pulled over and decided to call the nearest service station to meet an out of service phone number.

Thereafter we let the car cool down, moved all stuff to the reliable Maruti Swift. Decided to let the Swift move on.

This one is certainly another injector failure because an EGR failure will let you continue driving in limp mode. Tried to restart after the engine cooled down and thankfully it started back up. Decided to drop the car back and it will unfortunately have to be sold. It's time to cut our losses and move on.

As it is obvious from various posts on this thread, the problem is surely widespread and affecting multiple owners abruptly in their short or long term ownership experience. The unfortunate part is a company like VW refuses to acknowledge problems with their own product.

I still lust for a Jetta but experiences like these leave a void that makes me think many times over.

Have been following this thread ever since I got bitten by the TDi bug and ended up on the lookout for a pre-owned Vento.
Thanks to all the info here, I ended up shortlisting only post 2013 vehicles.

I admit, that post 2013 doesn't guarantee that a Veedub TDi would be beyond the issues listed here, but going by the issues reported, it was a calculated risk that the injector failures were sorted out in late 2012-early 2013. I now have a pre-worshipped 2013 Polo GT TDi in my possession.

All things aside, its scary to see how frequently these issues are cropping up on these 1.6 diesels. On reading your post, it does seem like you've made up your mind about the Vento and that you have no inclination to get things sorted.

However, with the rise in the number of cases where dealers are cheating customers in all manner of scams, I'm rooting for a Team-BHP driven uprising to get VW to take notice of the issues with their TDi engine.

Here's hoping that David wins over Goliath once again...

Cheers !

Sundar
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Old 26th September 2016, 10:29   #103
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Default Volkswagen Downtown Mumbai / Shaman Cars : 5 year Vento - Case of faulty injectors?

Hi All,
I'd like to bring to notice a major problem faced by one of my friends and a fellow Vento tdi (highline) owner. The car is a 2011 model, and had faced no major issues other than general maintenance and normal wear and tear since recently.

Around mid August, the car had a problem on the Mumbai-Pune expressway and was towed back to the Sewri workshop. And since then the car's been there at the workshop till date. Looking back now, the problem seems to be faulty injectors and a lot of mis-management and incorrect analysis of the issue at hand, leading to several diagnosis results with no positive outcome till date.

Shaman Cars has handled the situation pretty badly, and is now stating that the problem is due to contaminated fuel and the final "solution" is to do parts replacements to the tune of close to 3.5 lakhs.

And all this for a 5 year old car who's market value might not be more than 4-4.5 lakhs.

All mails and calls to the dealer/workshop have had not any positive outcome for my friend. So finally as the next resort he reached out to VW India and sent them a mail.

Mail 1 to Nitisha Agrawal - Public Relations Head of VW India

Quote:
From: <My Friend>
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 10:20 PM
To: Agrawal, Nitisha (NSC India)
Subject: VW COMPLAIN ESCALATION (URGENT)

Hi Nitisha,
I have been treated quite poorly by Volkswagen and more so by Shaman motors. Details of my complaint are provided in the mail below and further proof can be furnished on request. I sincerely hope the top management at VW helps resolve this issue on urgent basis. I also wish to inform you unless my concerns detailed below are addressed immediately I plan on taking this issue up with print and digital media. I have not ruled out litigation as well and I have already approached my family lawyer to advise me on proceedings.
I have lost all the respect for the ‘brand VW’ and more so for the ‘VW workshop’ who have showed the utmost incompetence in handling my car and as a result are now unable to repair it and get it to a normal working condition. Worthwhile to note, the car was in a perfectly fine running condition with only problem being a flashing glow plug when it landed into the VW workshop early May.
Unfortunately, since the car was taken up for repairs since May, 2016, the numbers of problems in the car have only increased multifold. i.e. if one problem was sorted, something else cropped up. My rationale is simple - the complete diagnosis of the car was never done. Further, every time there on the car landed in the workshop, a new service manager was in charge of the car, and, the gentleman responsible were not even aware of the history of the car, or, were keen to probe into what had gone wrong earlier, and, whether the problem was sorted or not. The focus on quick turnaround time came at the expense of the quality of checks The only solution which I got to hear was “replace the parts”!! As per the last mail that I have received from VW workshop – it categorically clearly states VW’s policy is “replacement not repairs” with a indicative bill amount of Rs3.5lacs+ to get car back to normal working condition!!!

Highlighting below few bits from my end on the frequent interactions that I had with your engineers since mid-may –
Replacement: “fuel injector needs to be replaced” – reason: quality of fuel in the county is not good!! Well, if that was the reason for the reason for injector replacement, why on earth doesn’t VW regular servicing including injector / filter cleaning? It’s a common practice that I have noticed for other auto majors.

Service levels: On the day my car went down on the Mumbai Pune highway (13th August), I was with my parents (65+yrs), and, I called up the online helpline number on VW India website. To my surprise, I find it just doesn’t exist!! Bravo - Happy to help you with my call records from the service provider on this. Next, I reach out to your VW workshop head, the gentleman is kind and helps me with the number of his subordinate. I call up the subordinate – Mr. Yogesh. His first reply is “I am having lunch”, I call him after ten minutes, his reply is “ my guy is on the bike”. In sultry heat and old parents along with me, I decided to give up on VW service and promise(what you propagate), and, approach the highway patrol number (IRB guys), they turn up in flat ten minutes and help me tow the vehicle from highway to Sewri workshop (bill of Rs10k+ - I bear the cost here). In the aforesaid road journey, the VW supplied towing clamp breaks (I have proof for that). Well, how can a towing clamp break??? It’s a clear manufacturing defect. Would like to hear from you on this as well…

The saga begins: Since August 13th, my car has been at the Sewri workshop, and, the guys haven’t been able to diagnose the problem. While, I looked at the job card, I find every part of the engine has been replaced to check what is wrong in the car (I have a proof to show this as well). This is a clear indication of your men not being able to diagnose the problem properly – one it can't take a month, second – replacement is not a solution for everything (you should try for repairs first). Am surprised to find VW policy suggests replacement is the only solution to a problem (I have proof of this on the email)!.

Wrong communication: When the car landed in the workshop I was informed the “timing belt slipped” and hence the problem. When, I visit the workshop I find it's broken (not slipped). Further, one of the reasons for delay often cited is availability of parts and needs to be shipped from Chennai / Pune and hence taking time. On my surprise visit, I find the parts already installed in the car, and, again I was mis-directed. God knows why so? Clearly, this point is you are taking your customer for a ride.

My car is still in the workshop and am not sure whether your guys will be able to repair it or not. I can't pay for replacement purely because the car was working fine and its because of your improper diagnosis, the car has landed in the state it is right now. I expect VW India to take complete responsibility of what it has done to my car and I expect my car in a perfect working condition as before.

Last Friday, i.e. 16th September, I spoke with Mr. Guruprasad Shinde (Regional Head, VW) on a conference call set up by Mr. Sahoo (VW Sewri Workshop Manager) and had detailed my concerns. He on the call indicated there would certainly be a response from VW team by Monday EOD (i.e today). Unfortunately, I haven't heard anything from Mr. Guruprasad as yet and Mr. Sahoo whom i just called up for an update had no clue on the status whatsoever.

The aforesaid car issue has not only resulted to hassles in my daily commute, but, it also impacts my work life balance, and, impacts my family as well. To summarize, you are taking people for granted, and, I have decided firmly that I will seek justice. Even if it means approaching print or digital media or consumer courts. I hope my concerns are addressed immediately by VW top management.
Eagerly look forward to your response,
Best Regards,
<My Friend>

VW India seemed to have simply forwarded the mail to Shaman Cars dealership and the dealership responded back after 2 days.

Response from Shaman Cars
Quote:
Fw: VW COMPLAIN ESCALATION (URGENT)
Vijaya Joglekar
Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 5:36 PM
To: <My Friend>
Cc: "NSCI R:" <customer.care@volkswagen.co.in>
Dear Sir,
Warm Greetings from Team Volkswagen Downtown., Mumbai
We thank you for availing our services and thereby giving us a chance to serve you at the same time, please accept our sincere apologies for the inconvenience caused to you in the entire said matter.
This is with reference to your concern raised to our Principal M/s Volkswagen Group Sales and also further to the conference call held between our Regional Manager – Mr. Guruprasad Shinde, our General Manager- After sales Mr. J. Sahoo and our Sr. Service Manager – Mr. Yogesh Wadhwal had with you pertaining to your above captioned vehicle, we hereby would like to inform you that the said vehicle was towed to our workshop on the 16hAug 2016, as the vehicle had breakdown while you were travelling on express way.

As per our initial diagnosis we found the Timing belt of the said vehicle was broken. Hence we replaced the timing belt with your prior approval and understood that the Engine is jammed. As already communicated to you earlier by us, we further diagnosed the vehicle as per VW technical guidelines and when opened Cylinder Head, found that the Rocker, HLA was damaged. Even after replacing the said part, the vehicle did not start, we identified the fault in the High pressure pump and also observed metal particle in the Fuel.

As such, we replaced the High pressure pump as well cleaned the fuel line system, post replacement of the said parts, when we started the vehicle we observed engine knocking. In process of repair, we suspected injectors were the reason for knocking, the probable cause for this failure can be the existence of metal swarp in the fuel (the same is due to contaminated fuel), hence we replaced the same on trial basis and found knocking issue was resolved.

We are sorry to express that even after replacing these parts; we were unable to get the desired result in Engine Performance. Hence we replaced the piston ring, still the problem was persisting in the vehicle, (vehicle misfiring), further to this when we carried Leak test to understand the compression ratio we observed the 2nd, 3rd and 4th valve had leakage.‎ Which means there was damage of Valve which need further replacement based on the damaged condition. Based on our observation we shared estimate with you for the replacement of the said parts (as we don't recommend repair of this parts as per VW Standards). However your requested us to repair this parts, the reason being you are intending to sell this vehicle and were not interested in spending on the said vehicle.

This is also to clarify you that during your visit to our workshop on the 17th May 2016, when the vehicle had the issue of Glow plug light glowing on the cluster, our diagnosis was that the injectors of the vehicle needed replacement which was denied from your end so the same was cleaned and fitted in your vehicle as a temporary measure and also your visit dated 29th July 2016, when the vehicle was taking long self, High Pressure Pump was found to be faulty and needed replacement but the same was not replaced as we did not get the approval from you .

We hereby once again would like to request you to accord us the approval to carry out necessary replacement of parts so as to bring back your vehicle performance.

For any further clarification, please feel free to contact us.
Assuring you of our best services always...
Thanks & Regards

Vijaya Joglekar
Head - Customer Relations
Volkswagen Downtown Mumbai
Shaman Cars Pvt. Ltd.

As one can see, there doesn't seem to be any response provided by VW India/Customer relation team. Desperate and with no other options, my friend has sent out mails to Head sales and VW India president; hoping they might provide some respite to the issue at hand.

Second Mail to VW Head Sales and VW India President
Quote:
-
From: <My Friend>
Date: Sep 21, 2016 11:19 PM
Subject: VW COMPLAIN ESCALATION (URGENT)
To: <VW India>

Hi
Its unfortunate that I have to escalate issues at your level. However, I have been left with no choice and you can only blame VW service policy and workshop mishaps for this.

I find its quite amusing the way VW staff has handled my car for a month now (still at your workshop) and the end-result - your service managers are asking me to replace almost the entire engine. Bravo!!.
Request you to kindly go through the mail below for more details. Have put a few pointers below for you -

Miscommunication from VW team: belt slip vs. belt broken. Have been misdirected from the very beginning. Its only when I saw the belt on my surprise visit to the workshop I realized that have been taken for a ride. Does a belt slipping require replacement in first place, secondly, why the miscommunication?
Improper Diagnosis: Glow plug popping up wont really imply a fuel injector issue given the car was working perfectly fine post the dates indicated by your team. You may confirm the same with your workshop guys. Further, the sequence of events (or mishaps) as explained in the mail below or the duration taken for analysis taken or the way of approaching a problem (evident from job card) only indicates negligence on your behalf.
VW policy - only replacement (over repairs): Every stage of interaction - your team has just one solution - replacement (vs. repairs); there is not an iota of effort to find the root cause of the issue; end-result - a complete screw up.
VW Policy - Injector/Engine failure - reason: Quality of fuel: The reason for damage in the engine has been cited to quality of fuel! If that's the case why doesn't VW service policy cover servicing of injectors (if other auto makers do). I had a detailed rundown with Mr. Guru and he categorically articulated it would be on back of high Sulphur content of the fuel in India. Or are you trying to tell me that this a potential liability or risk for all VW Diesel car owners in India!
Customer service - doesn't work - worth checking if your online numbers on the web page are working or not
Faulty clamp - How can I towing clamp break?! It defies the sole purpose of its very creation/need. I wont be surprised to hear a reply from your team that you didn't know how to use it!

Am not pleased with reasoning provided by your team and I believe the state the car is in right now its purely because of workshop mishaps/negligence and VW's policies.

Also, am ready to furnish you all the required proofs for the variables indicated above on request including call records.

Looking for an urgent intervention from your end as I believe you are the last resort for potential resolution at India level as I have lost hopes on rest of your team that have interacted with.

Best Regards,
<My Friend>

So far the facts are as such
  • The car has been lying at the VW Downtwon Sewri garage since Aug 13th
  • After multiple problem diagnosises, the current solution is to replace parts to the tune of 3.5 lakhs
  • No response or support from VW India/Customer Relations team

My friend is planning on going the legal route; however he understands that's going to be a long fight and possibly with no clear resolution.


I have shared the threads http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-2012-a-7.html (A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)) and other existing threads to my friend.

Looking for advice from bhp members - any inputs on the same?

Mod Note: Merged with existing thread where it is likely to get more eyeballs

Last edited by noopster : 26th September 2016 at 11:59. Reason: Refer mod note online
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Old 26th September 2016, 12:09   #104
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Hey Ninja,

Couple of questions:
- Did your friend have a clean service history on the car?
- I see that he denied injector replacements although advised by Shaman. That in itself makes a weak case (considering that he is looking at a legal angle).
- Does he have extended warranty by any chance?
- What is the current odo reading?

If he doesn't have any warranty left on it then it is best that he kisses the car a hearty goodbye. Related thread Vento fuel system replacement. (VW Vento: Fuel system clean-up. Dealer suggesting Rs. 2.5 lakh replacement)

(Psssst, I hope you are kind of convinced that pre-2012 Ventos are shipped with faulty injectors, EGR and other miscellaneous parts.)

Last edited by moralfibre : 26th September 2016 at 12:16.
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Old 26th September 2016, 17:41   #105
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Default Re: A case of unreliable Volkswagen Ventos (2010 - 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Hey Ninja,

Couple of questions:
- Did your friend have a clean service history on the car?
- I see that he denied injector replacements although advised by Shaman. That in itself makes a weak case (considering that he is looking at a legal angle).
- Does he have extended warranty by any chance?
- What is the current odo reading?

If he doesn't have any warranty left on it then it is best that he kisses the car a hearty goodbye. Related thread Vento fuel system replacement. (VW Vento: Fuel system clean-up. Dealer suggesting Rs. 2.5 lakh replacement)


Answers below from my friend:

1. Clear history on the car - yes -- all VW workshop
2. Replacement was suggested but not done because .. he didn't think it was the root cause given the car was not diagnosed properly. More so, without replacement car was working perfectly fine for 4months until breakdown. How can one just change anything and everything workshop guys say without proper root cause study.
3. He does have extended warranty from shaman motors but not sure if it covers engine repairs. Something called "Shaman Shield".
4. ~51,000 kms


The warranty doesn't seem to be VW extended warranty, but a cover from the dealer with its own caveats.

I remember seeing a VW service advisory on some of the threads initially when this problem was shared. Is there something he can push to get the injectors replaced out of goodwill/warranty?


Quote:
(Psssst, I hope you are kind of convinced that pre-2012 Ventos are shipped with faulty injectors, EGR and other miscellaneous parts.)
Yes.

Last edited by ninjatalli : 26th September 2016 at 17:44.
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