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Old 18th March 2016, 08:06   #1
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Default Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

My two year old Skoda Octavia 1.8TSi, registered Jan 2014, was running smoothly with no issues so far.
Over the last 3-4 days, there is a sharp shudder at take off from stand still. This happens in low gears or when the car starts to roll after a brief stop (for example at an intersection or lights). The only analogy I can give is when, in a manual , we start at a higher gear with inadequate rpm and speed.It is like the vehicle is going to stall and the whole vehicle shudders.
I took it to the workshop yesterday, however, as fate would have it, there was no problem while they test drove it and ran their diagnostics.
The skoda octavia thread reports a couple of other similar experiences from others.
In retrospect, it did seem that the car was not running as smooth as before for a few weeks now- felt like a spark plug was not firing in sync-some irregularity in the otherwise smooth sound of the engine and car while running.
I am taking the car back to the workshop today and asking them to keep it and get it checked out.
Anyone else with similar problems - how was it ultimately resolved?

Here is link to a short video of the problem:
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Old 18th March 2016, 08:55   #2
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Default re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

Actually the video does not show anything abnormal . Are you referring to the hollow sound around 28-32 seconds. That DSG is a little troublesome one and your symptoms are well documented in the web. Its a clutch related problem/Transmission related and most cases under warranty the DSG or Clutch is usually replaced.

Good will replacement is possible but you are looking at a bigger problem with that DSG. The sound makes me point to failing clutch assembly. DSG's another major failure but highly documented across web. Could also be Mechatronic failure and soft ware related as well.

Sorry about that.

Last edited by VW2010 : 18th March 2016 at 09:02.
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Old 18th March 2016, 08:59   #3
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Default re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

It appears to be another dreaded mechatronic failure in the DSG. Symptoms appear to be similar. Please ask the Skoda guys to take a look at the gearbox.

It appears that the DQ200 simply can't take the traffic conditions of Bangalore. I know of another colleague who has had the same issue and his transmission was replaced under warranty.

Last edited by reignofchaos : 18th March 2016 at 09:00.
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Old 18th March 2016, 10:14   #4
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Default re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

Thanks guys. Will head to Tafe access workshop today. The car had an extended warranty and I hope the issue will be covered.
Will keep updating.
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Old 18th March 2016, 10:27   #5
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Default

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Originally Posted by docsr View Post
Thanks guys. Will head to Tafe access workshop today. The car had an extended warranty and I hope the issue will be covered.

Will keep updating.

I noticed some shuddering when you were starting off in reverse. That's quite abnormal.

As said before, mechatronic failure is a failure that causes your car to be immobile and not drivable. Since you can drive the car, it's the multi-clutch for sure.

If your service center agrees to get the clutch replaced, do make sure that they also change the flywheel together with it. Shudder will completely go away after this.

For me the Shudder has gone but there is a noise when up shifting from 2 to 3, that's from the flywheel. It's possible that while reinstalling the clutch, they can mess up the alignment of the flywheel.

Also after the clutch replacement keep a close eye on the gear ratios. If the ratios have changed, they must give it a software reboot.
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Old 18th March 2016, 13:07   #6
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
If your service center agrees to get the clutch replaced, do make sure that they also change the flywheel together with it. Shudder will completely go away after this.
Bingo! I know someone whose Superb also faced this shuddering issue. New clutch packs & a flywheel eliminated the shudder.
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Old 18th March 2016, 16:39   #7
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

The problem seems to be there after a cold start. Once the vehicle runs for 10minutes or so, it tends to quieten down. Is this unusual?
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Old 18th March 2016, 17:05   #8
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

Quote:
Originally Posted by docsr View Post
The problem seems to be there after a cold start. Once the vehicle runs for 10minutes or so, it tends to quieten down. Is this unusual?
This is a common problem. Yours might be a severe case but with my car its mild and it's just something i have been living with since 6 years now! Even after my mechatronic was replaced twice, this slight shudder at take off yet continues. 3 other Superb's I have driven have the same issue.
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Old 19th March 2016, 01:53   #9
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

I have this on my GT TSI as well when taking off from second gear. If you are in manual mode, does it happen ? It should not. I think it is related to half clutching at low speeds as the gearbox hangs on to second gear even at pretty low speeds. And when you suddenly take off, the release tends to shudder.
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Old 19th March 2016, 09:18   #10
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Default Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

Shuddering in cars upto 60-80K kms is not normal in my opinion. The parts are built very well so as to perform the life of the vehicle or at least say 200K kms.

In my case, the second gear shudder was exactly like the type we get in a manual car if we pick up in a higher gear at a substantially low speed.

This was coupled with clutch slipping, post mechatronic change. Hence the clutch was changed.

This then resulted in mis-aligned flywheel which is now making a rather irritating sound which I can even feel on the Acc pedal while shifting from 2 to 3.

If skoda was careful, they would have changed all the three components together, or they could take care not to damage the clutch while installing new mechatronic, or at least changed the flywheel along with clutch slipping issue.

Last edited by adi_petrolhead : 19th March 2016 at 09:20.
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Old 19th March 2016, 09:50   #11
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sivasain View Post
I have this on my GT TSI as well when taking off from second gear. If you are in manual mode, does it happen ? It should not. I think it is related to half clutching at low speeds as the gearbox hangs on to second gear even at pretty low speeds. And when you suddenly take off, the release tends to shudder.
Completely agree with you.

IMO, clutch slipping is the culprit here. When in D mode, even at very low speeds below 10kph, the DSG still is in 2nd gear, while in manual mode for the same speed it would automatically shift to 1st gear. This clutch slipping in bumper to bumper traffic would definitely wear out the clutch very quickly. I have observed this behavior both in the Polo GT TSi (DQ200) and the Jetta (DQ250). However in the Jetta, as the DSG has wet clutch this, I think this does not create much clutch wear.

Why would VW not fix this in their software? They could engage 1st gear instead of slipping in 2nd. Is it because the fuel economy would suffer?

If we were to use manual mode in bumper to bumper traffic (it is going to be irritating to do this though), would this increase clutch life?
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Old 19th March 2016, 10:00   #12
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

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Originally Posted by graaja View Post
If we were to use manual mode in bumper to bumper traffic (it is going to be irritating to do this though), would this increase clutch life?
Isn't this ultimately defeating the purpose of buying an AT car to save yourself from the stress of changing gears every now and then. The 7 speed dsg already comes with a recommendation from forum members that it should be shifted to N when stopping for over 30 seconds to save the dry clutch from overheating.

If we have to keep the gears toggling in bumper to bumper traffic in addition to the neutral thing, it would be irritating and some how defeats the sole motive of a stress free AT city car.

Planning to get a GT TSi to replace my Vento TDi but threads like these give me jitters that vag have not yet solved their dsg gremlins. I do not want to drive in traffic thinking that i am ruining my gearbox or keep toggling gears to keep the clutches cool.
The mechatronics were failing and now multi clutches have also started giving up, all issues with this 7 speed dsg, its time vw work around on this particular gearbox.
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Old 19th March 2016, 10:24   #13
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

If you pick a car from the VW stable I would recommend the manual cars.

If DSG think of the car as four year ownership and sell it after warranty.

Skoda is the worst of all for various reasons. Atleast VW as a brand has not got major bad feedback overall. Only other feedback I have read is users able to preserve the box by actually driving hard. More to search.
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Old 19th March 2016, 10:39   #14
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

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Originally Posted by coolboy007 View Post
If we have to keep the gears toggling in bumper to bumper traffic in addition to the neutral thing, it would be irritating and some how defeats the sole motive of a stress free AT city car.
Absolutely. That would totally beat the comfort of driving an AT car. I was just raising a hypothetical question if manual mode would increase clutch life. If yes, then I think VW can easily resolve this by modifying their shifting logic in the DSG to shift to 1st instead of slipping in 2nd.

I was reading on DSG tuning on the net, and came across many DSG tuning products. Here is the list of features from Harding Performance Tuning for DQ200.

Quote:
1.2 TSI 60 – 110kw and 1.4TSi 90kw

These vehicles have no torque limiter problems
Our upgraded shift program solves a lot of the factory driveability issues
Reactivation of first gear whilst driving slowly
Modified D - Drive mode for better drivability (gear closely matched to engine load & vehicle speed)
The S - Sport program is "lowered" for better usability
Vibration issues between 1st and 2nd gear are gone, or lessened
Clutch shudder is dramatically reduced
Longer life of gearbox & clutch packs.
They clearly mention "Shifting to 1st gear while driving" as a key feature that in turn increases life of the gear box and clutch packs. The million dollar question is, if a third party can develop a solution like this, why is VW not doing this? My guess is that FE will take a hit in this method and they will not be able to claim fuel efficiency as an important feature.

Having said that, I totally enjoy both the smoothness in D mode and the explosiveness in S mode in the Polo GT TSi. Only when these threads come up, I get those butterflies in the stomach!

As it has been pointed out by many, you can either have a reliable boring car, or a fun to drive unreliable car. This is the biggest dilemma we face while choosing cars. If you are looking for a fun to drive automatic hatch, Polo GT TSi is the only choice. Seeing the list of cars you have owned and driven, I cannot think of any other car that will give you satisfaction!

Last edited by graaja : 19th March 2016 at 10:40.
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Old 19th March 2016, 11:11   #15
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSi DSG - Shuddering issue!

In my opinion, the transmission doesn't shift in to D1, because notice in manual tiptronic mode, when it does shift to 1, there is a jerk. Its not seamless as the movement from 4 to 3 OR 3 to 2. To offer a better, smooth experience, they would have programmed it to stay in D2.

If you floor the throttle in D2 at lets say 10 km/h, the clutch is bound to slip. If you gradually input throttle, its boring. Its about finding that right balance of throttle input to come out of a crawl and then floor the throttle if needed to quickly gain speed.

Having said that, the 8 speed ZF boxes are so well tuned, that they can control monsters like the 530d without any shudders or jerks.

Skoda is recognising these issues and it does best to provide the apt replacement to the customer with a faulty gearbox component. But, its also our proactive involvement where we have to haggle with them to do it the right way, and not just for the heck of it.

Last edited by adi_petrolhead : 19th March 2016 at 11:12.
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